[Hopeless Dork]

Just to add a woman has enough telling her she isn't good enough... from magazines to tv commercials to billboards.. to tvshows to movies, to internet ads, to her so's porn collection, to not being able to even AFFORD to compete and get 100 dollar hair colors and 50 dollar a week nail jobs and 400 dollar a month extensions and 300 a week personal trainers and 300 dollar a week pre-planned delivery of calorie controlled meals and 5000 breast implants and 40 a month fake tans... not mention facials and botox and fancy clothes and shoes and all the things society tells her she needs to have to be 'attractive' as the other women she sees in the media.

Having a man at home that makes her feel like she is amazingly beautiful as she is, is priceless.

[Gwaihir]

I think what happens to so many men, including myself, is that a woman will use the tools shes been trained to use by society, media, peer influences, etc...to get the man and keep him. I believe most women think men are one track mind sex fiends, which, at least for me, is not the case. Once she shows the man what she can do, and how great and frequent the sex can be, she knows she has him and doesn't need to give it up to him as much..or stops altogether. In all these cases I've read about..the women won't explain why there is a sudden slow down, and the man is left hanging and frustrated.
What's up women?? Help a guy out! Setting precedents and expectations, and then throwing them out on a whim is cruel.

I was just told this verbatim by my girlfriend. That the frequency of sex was used in the beginning as a tool to keep me, because the claims that she knew she wanted to be with me. I'm really not seeing how this is healthy from any perspective, and the fact that she admitted that the frequency of sex was so often in the beginning makes me feel terrible. I am having serious doubts now, after talking with her for hours on the subject tonight, only to learn that she quote "wishes i would force it sometimes"
WTF! I am not that kind of person and only rely on her signals, which have lately on included "im tired, my stomach hurts, im so exhausted" etc!
To make matters worse, she says now, that she turned off by sex because of a past relationship, which entailed having sex 5 times a day, sometimes forced. Which means what? Im totally lost and think i need, or we need, to seek professional help, otherwise I am seriously contemplating leaving her until she "figures things out".
Will she end up with the ex boyfriend of 3 years ago which was 5 times a day? Only the pain in my stomach can tell that future.
Im seriously lost.

[TroubledMan]

Just to add a woman has enough telling her she isn't good enough... from magazines to tv commercials to billboards.. to tvshows to movies, to internet ads, to her so's porn collection, to not being able to even AFFORD to compete and get 100 dollar hair colors and 50 dollar a week nail jobs and 400 dollar a month extensions and 300 a week personal trainers and 300 dollar a week pre-planned delivery of calorie controlled meals and 5000 breast implants and 40 a month fake tans... not mention facials and botox and fancy clothes and shoes and all the things society tells her she needs to have to be 'attractive' as the other women she sees in the media.

Having a man at home that makes her feel like she is amazingly beautiful as she is, is priceless.

Yeah, on top of all that superficial stuff you mentioned...the pictures in ads and commercials are still finely edited with graphics software to make them look even more comic bookish. I believe Dove has a campaign to use "real women" without airbrushing or photoshopping their commercials.
I will heed your words and make her feel beautiful again. She really is a gorgeous woman inside and out, and I'm extremely lucky to call her my wife.

[WildChild]

I was just told this verbatim by my girlfriend. That the frequency of sex was used in the beginning as a tool to keep me, because the claims that she knew she wanted to be with me. I'm really not seeing how this is healthy from any perspective, and the fact that she admitted that the frequency of sex was so often in the beginning makes me feel terrible. I am having serious doubts now, after talking with her for hours on the subject tonight, only to learn that she quote "wishes i would force it sometimes"
WTF! I am not that kind of person and only rely on her signals, which have lately on included "im tired, my stomach hurts, im so exhausted" etc!
To make matters worse, she says now, that she turned off by sex because of a past relationship, which entailed having sex 5 times a day, sometimes forced. Which means what? Im totally lost and think i need, or we need, to seek professional help, otherwise I am seriously contemplating leaving her until she "figures things out".
Will she end up with the ex boyfriend of 3 years ago which was 5 times a day? Only the pain in my stomach can tell that future.
Im seriously lost.

Sounds like she has some real issues. Many times women who have fantasies of being "forced" or in situations where they have to have to sex without any choice or action on their part, are looking for a way out of owning their sexuality. At some level they want it but they are so indoctrinated into the "good girls don't" thinking that thye can't enjoy fully participatory and volluntary sex. Romance novels abound with this. The attracitive but overlooked woman of strong morals who is "swept off her feet" by a powerful, yet tender, man who is simply unable to control his passion for her. It's all a load of bilge water but it takes the resposibility for being a fully sexual woman with desires of her own away. She can be a object of passion, be desirable and be "good" because she resisted, didn't initiate, and doesn't actively want it.

I don't know a cure for this, I'm not a counselor but if you are into it, a few visits with one may not hurt - if you find a good one. I think this is deceptive and damaging behavior on several fronts, she's manipulted you and hurt you, but she isn't doing herself any good either. Giving her lots of space may be the best thing for you, she has a lot of work to do. Understand not all women are this way, many of us have suffered at the hands of men who are POd at this kind of behavior and proceded to essentially punish every women who crosses their path.

If you walk, give yourself some time to heal and keep the problems with her behavior assigned only to her. Many times we humans project our expectations on others and then treat them as though they had done something they didn't but we respond to a pattern that we have, rather than what is really going on. Don't set yourself up for this cycle. Just as she is trying to put you into the old bfs pattern, even though she disliked it.

[TroubledMan]

I was just told this verbatim by my girlfriend. That the frequency of sex was used in the beginning as a tool to keep me, because the claims that she knew she wanted to be with me. I'm really not seeing how this is healthy from any perspective, and the fact that she admitted that the frequency of sex was so often in the beginning makes me feel terrible. I am having serious doubts now, after talking with her for hours on the subject tonight, only to learn that she quote "wishes i would force it sometimes"
WTF! I am not that kind of person and only rely on her signals, which have lately on included "im tired, my stomach hurts, im so exhausted" etc!
To make matters worse, she says now, that she turned off by sex because of a past relationship, which entailed having sex 5 times a day, sometimes forced. Which means what? Im totally lost and think i need, or we need, to seek professional help, otherwise I am seriously contemplating leaving her until she "figures things out".
Will she end up with the ex boyfriend of 3 years ago which was 5 times a day? Only the pain in my stomach can tell that future.
Im seriously lost.

I can certainly relate to your situation. She is probably asking you to force her due to her last relationship, and that being the norm for her. I think if you want the relationship to continue you should both go to counseling together. I've only been posting here for a few days, but I've learned so much already from these women, about how a woman thinks and reacts to a man's actions. What I think it's going to take is a change in attitude from one of you at first, and then the other will follow. It sounds like she might be looking for you to take the first step because she is still stuck in the mindset of her prior relationship that was unhealthy sexually. I don't really know what else to suggest, I would keep checking back for the responses from these knowledgable and experienced women.

[rcoreyus]

Peoples experience colors how they see other relationships. A woman who has had a SO that didn't treat her well will tend to assume that other men whose SOs aren't passionate are doing same. A man in the same situation will tend to think the same. I have no idea of the percentages of men who really are treating their SO's well, nor do I know if TroubledMan really is (but I would guess he is), but I do know about me:

When I get home I give my wife a hug and kiss as soon as I see her. I never look at other women when she is around.

I admit that I don't notice what she is wearing, or how her hair is done - but I do tell her she is beautiful often.

On the rare occasion she actually does something sexual for me, I am very appreciative.

I do whatever she wants in bed, whenever she wants. Frequently she will bee too "tired" to do anything for me, but I'll still do things to please her. It is very rare that she doesn't orgasm in a lovemaking session - and I'd be more than happy to give her more - but she doesn't want them.

I send her flowers at work for no reason. Give her my business-class tickets if she couldn't upgrade when we travel. Give her back and foot and neck rubs. Have dinner out often, carry her stuff when we go hiking. Learned and joined her hobbies and interests.

Sorry to go on, but please know that sometimes when women don't want intimacy, it isn't because their men aren't trying.

He makes me feel so beautiful, so sexy and so wanted. The minute he walks in the door from work he hunts me down in the house and hugs me and kisses me. When we're out in public he's affectionate and gives me all his attention, the waitress can be hot and eyeing him, and hes nothing but respectful to me.

He takes time every day to notice what I'm wearing, how I did my hair and because of how much he compliments and flatters me it makes it worth my effort to try to wow him on a daily basis because it makes me feel amazing to see the smile on his face when he see's me.

He appreciates all the sexual things I do for him (and I do many) and always lets me know how good I make him feel, always makes me feel like I'm the hottest he has ever had.

He pays attention to my needs, he pleasures me before sex, during sex and if I'm still grinding around after he comes, he'll pleasure me AFTER sex as well. He makes sure when I am in need of satisfaction that he gives it to me and because of that I do the same for him.

[TroubledMan]

I have to +1 Corey. At first I didn't understand what he was trying to say, but the last sentence tied it together. I think a lot of men don't give proper credance to their SO's past relationships, or childhoods. I think the best thing you can do is start a dialogue with her, and try to pinpoint some past stressors...From what I've been reading, she may not realize what an impact some past tribulation may have had on her.