[rcoreyus]

Now be nice. There are a lot of men in these discussions who's SOs treat them very badly as well.

[rcoreyus]

People seem to like variety. Men who are perfectly happy in their relationships still like pictures of other women. (though most won't masturbate to them). Women who are perfectly happy will still enjoy romance novels. Both romance and porn present completely unrealistic images of people. In porn you have women who are always ready for sex, and who enjoy doing whatever their partners want.

Romance presents a rather unrealistic view of men as well: Look at the twilight series: The male love interest is better looking, stronger, more intelligent, more caring, more mature - in every way better than any real man. Other romances present the "cowboy" who is somehow a better shot than a professional killer, a better gambler than a card shark, and who despite (presumably ) living his life on the road herding cattle, is charming, sophisticated (other than wearing old but stylish clothes), and somehow doesn't smell like cows and unwashed sweat.

I think it is OK for people to have their fantasies - as long as they are just that. A fantasy to occupy idle thoughts - even for sexual arousal is fine - as long as it doesn't detract from your relationship with your SO. People shouldn't be jealous of surgically enhanced porn stars, fantasy cowboys, caring and romantic assassins, and whatever else imagination can dream up - they ARE NOT REAL. But person having the fantasy needs to remember that they are not real as well and not compare them to their partners.

[rcoreyus]

This was to wildchild.

Now be nice. There are a lot of men in these discussions who's SOs treat them very badly as well.

[Hopeless Dork]

Yeah it has GOT to be more about variety than 'visual stimulation' as many guys have plenty of naughty photos and movies of their s.o. and still look for porn of other women online. Not to mention the men that reject intimacy in favor of masturbation, if they are using their smart phone to look up itty bitty pictures of naked ladies rather than just watching the live human woman in their bed... its not the visual there , its the variety.

So if we are truly honest with ourselves... as painful as it is... they are looking at something, looking for something 'different'... maybe something 'better'... maybe something equally attractive... but I am pretty fairly sure 'visual stimulation' is mumbo jumbo for 'I need to look at every chick naked and there's about 1 billion naked chicks on line... pardon me, this may take a while'.

[Hmmm<3]

HD I just lol'd at this

but I am pretty fairly sure 'visual stimulation' is mumbo jumbo for 'I need to look at every chick naked and there's about 1 billion naked chicks on line... pardon me, this may take a while'.

[WildChild]

Now be nice. There are a lot of men in these discussions who's SOs treat them very badly as well.

I am very much aware of that R and you are outstandingly patient with your own situation but I think my point still stands. Women are subject to a daily onslaught of both visual and verbal messages about their sexuality. I don't think men get anything close. Men's films (we might call them testicle fests) and video games feature over muscled, over testosteroned heros who win the war, save the planet, nail the bad guys, single handed - often with nary a woman in the picture. Those are made for men, not women.

Women are hit with billboards of over busted, sultry women, mudflaps and bumper stickers of barbie figures, advertising galore of impossible to achieve females, most insults in our society relate to women's sexuality, so called chick flicks may be a bit unrealistic but the women and men in them are much closer to real than the men in the various war and alien invasion movies geared to men. I mean Tom Hanks is hardly an unachievable body image. Films geared to men tend to feature very unrealistic women.

My point is, as we had pointed out by a poster a while back, don't insult the penis, is a paramont rule but women are constant fair game. Men are very emotionally vulnerable, particularly sexually, far more so than we are willing to admit as a society. I do think that many men, if they had to deal with what women do, would be in crisis and end up with some serious performance issues. There may be more to this as the root of some women's problems than is recognized. We've become so blind to it than even an aware man such as yourself, probably doesn't perceive much of it. We are trained from infancy to accept it.

[Hopeless Dork]

. I mean Tom Hanks is hardly an unachievable body image. Films geared to men tend to feature very unrealistic women.

That is a fantastic point. There are soooo many chick flicks where the guy is some loveable loser, overweight, super nerdy, etc... but has a heart of gold that some model type is won over by. Guy's can toss out what about brad pitt? Clooney? Daniel craig? Yes their are some hot guys on the screen sometimes... but I've never seen a movie where they are swept off their feet by the personality of a size 16 female. Seriously. Nuh-uh.

From the time I wake up in the morning til the time I go to bed I probably see and hear about 1000 times that I am not good enough. From magazines, commericals, billboards, online adverts... I need that diet, that lipstick, that botox, that laser hair removal, that breast augmentation, that tan, those lip injections, those painfully uncomfortable but sexy to men shoes... etc etc etc.

Mud flaps, bumper stickers and t shirts that read "no fat chicks", even our own women's magazines are shoving impossible body types down our throats.

Then at the end of society telling us we're not good enough all day, we get to log on to the computer and be flooded with images of the supermodel porn stars our S.O has been browsing.

Sure guys may get an occasional 'get a bigger penis' email... but seriously... they have no idea just how hard it is for a woman to maintain her self-esteem, its hard, really hard.

[rcoreyus]

Not sure if this is drifting off topic, but I'll continue anyway. I agree that media presents more unreasonable physical models for women than it does for men. OTOH, it presents more unreasonable behavior models for men - and I think that is just as harmful to self esteem. Some of the models presented include:

The "artist" who doesn't care about money, just lives for his art (or music), but someone lives in a 5000 square foot loft apartment in Manhattan, to buy his girlfriend flowers, take her romantic places. Somehow he manages to be a romantic rebel - yet still have all the perks of a high income, or the bookish, but cute engineer / scientist / writer who turns winds up being better in hand to hand combat than trained CIA / Mafia / whatever assassins. Even the James Bond character - how the XXXX does he manage to fit all those suits and guns into one tiny luggage case? The endless presentation of men who are young and "poor", but somehow have money to get their girlfriends nice things, or take them interesting places.

Movies are about fantasies - of all sorts. They tend to present physically unreasonable women, and socially unreasonable men. Both are calculated to attack people's insecurities.

[OnTheWay]

sorry about trying to use irony to make a point

in all seriousness though, is there a difference between many men looking at pornography and fantasysing vs women reading romance novels or threads on here and fantasysing? (I am not saying that only men look at porn and only women read romance novels, or that all men read porn and women read romance novels, I just think its very ironinc that I have had g/f's in the past that have problems with pornography, but to them there's nothing wrong with reading romance novels that are filled with women and men having sex... Just curious if women who have a problem with pornographic images would have a problem if their boyfriend or husband was simply reading erotic stories on the internet?

[ItsASecret]

Just curious if women who have a problem with pornographic images would have a problem if their boyfriend or husband was simply reading erotic stories on the internet?

I personally wouldn't have a problem at all if he was dipping into a culture of actual sexual art...erotica is not considered a demeaning venue like porn and does not contain anything more than words which you as the reader need to visualize. If you cannot visualize or follow the storyline then it then it is a bunch of black ink on paper, or the screen. There are no paid models, there is no forcing of undesired acts resulting in actual physical pain, and as far as I can conjure up there are no people addicted and ruining relationships by reading the books. So no I do not see how they are exactly one in the same other than using the word "sex" within the title.