[Joe77]

OK, pardon me not quoting the posts I am replying to, but for some reason "reply with quote" is not working at the moment for me.

For jns:

Well, there might be some truth to that. As far as men go my libido is probably on the low-normal side anyway but FAR FAR higher than my wife's. I knew when I married her that she wasn't as sexual as me, but she at least showed some interest. My ideal frequency is probably every other day, and at the beginning of the relationship I could have had daily if it were possible. In truth we had sex maybe 2/3 times per week when first married, more when trying to get pregnant, and then during her first pregnancy, she went through a horny period where we came close to about every other day for a few weeks. All through this time though, nothing ever varied and we never did anything different from usual technique or position-wise. She initiates maybe one time in ten now but maybe more often at the beginning. If she initiated in the beginning of our relationship and into the early part of our marriage, she would actually physically touch me and tell me she wanted it, where now she might just sit there and say "let's do it" but turns into her typical unenthusiastic self once I start. Almost like she's just giving me a freebie. Early in our relationship, the only time she was the one who fully initiated was basically when drunk or after a long fun night out, never when we're just sitting around at home. Later on, it was when we were trying for a baby that she would initiate.

What bothers me is it almost feels like I'm taking advantage of a teenage virgin when we have sex.

For ItsASecret:

She was raised Catholic, as was I, but neither of us are all that serious about it. I guess there could still be some vestiges of "Catholic Guilt" in there. I don't want her to thrash like a porn star, but I like to know I'm having sex with a living, breathing person! Obviously saying it that way to her would be the wrong way, I get that.

If I said I wanted variety, I'd probably get a blank stare, or something like "OK" with no real feedback beyond that. She never really says "I like that" or "ooh that feels good" for anything I do. In the early stages of our relationship, she did that a little bit, but that ended even before we actually got married. The funny thing is, we actually had sex pretty early in our relationship, earlier than either of us had with anyone else, it wasn't something that took a lot of time to happen. So it's odd to me that she's so NON-sexual now.

I'm very nervous on HOW to ask her these questions without sounding accusatory, or like I am whining, or without making it sound like I'm telling her she's a bad lover, or that I am comparing her to past women I've been with.

Another point:

Whenever we encounter something slightly naughty like a sex toy, or other bedroom enhancements, such as those new K-Y products that create the sensations, she laughs and finds them silly. If I suggest trying them I usually get the typical non-response where she says nothing at all or continues with a previous conversation. For our wedding, one of her friends got us this little kit with a sex game where you pick a card and do whatever is on the card to your partner, and also some flavored gels and such. She NEVER EVER agreed to try them. I tried a couple different times to bring them out and its as if she just does whatever she can to passively avoid trying them, without actually saying "no, I don't want to try that" or "it seems stupid" or anything, and definitely not an "OK!", just...silence.



General comments:

I am NOT going to stray or leave her, I do love her very much. At worst, I'll sustain myself on masturbation and occasional maintenance sex which is all we have anyway. I'm not one of these guys that "needs" to have sex daily, I'd like every few days ideally, but can get by on less. To be blunt, I've never had that active of a sex life aside from a couple past relationships, I've never been a "stud" and went LOOOOOOOOOONG periods of time in my 20s with no sex whatsoever and I survived! I was never a guy to just go pick up a random girl and nail her, give her cab fare, and send her home. Not that I had the charisma or sex appeal to do it if I had tried...haha.

In fact, in one of my past relationships, SHE said she wanted sex more than me but she was a mind game player - she'd say that I should be "getting it on every night" with her, but when I tried, she'd turn me down, and she would belittle my technique, tell me I was a minuteman and didn't know how to "use my c**k" etc. so I think that had a lot to do with it...in that relationship, my (relative) lack of libido was largely due to her (the ex-girlfriend not my wife) being a total *****.

Back to my wife, there is an element to her personality that could be at play here as well. For things like news events, work stuff, and what we're going to do this weekend, she's very open and communicative. She does, however, have a tendency to not respond when I say things (non-sex stuff) and she admits that her family was annoyed by it growing up as well. For example, if I say "I'm going to run upstairs and take a shower" she just says nothing. If I ask "honey, did you hear me" she will sometimes say yes, sometimes no. The only reason I don't just go up and take a shower without repeating is that about half the time, she actually is NOT listening, and I've had issues where she has been calling for me and asking where I went...only for me to say "well I told you I was XXXXX ten minutes ago." So I either have to sound like an uncertain squirelly guy who is always asking for confirmation, or risk having her annoyed that I didn't tell her what I was doing. Before kids it was less of an issue, but since sometimes I'll run out of the room to leave the kids playing on the floor, obviously I want her to know where I am going. So maybe her lack of communication during sex is tied to this somehow. Also things that have to do with an opinion on something like "I think that Romney is XXXXX" or something, she will often just say nothing at all. Most of the time we actually do agree, 80% of the time, so I don't know why she doesn't at least say "u huh" or something to indicate that she's listening. She admits that as a kid she got a lot of "DID YOU HEAR ME" from her parents.

Lately, I've had a tendency to moan and complain about things - messes on the floor, things the kids do, etc, not directed at her (and I do a big share of the chores) just the annoyances in general. She gets bothered by that. So we made a "deal" last night that she agreed to - I'll try not to grumble so much if she can try to be better at responding to me.

[DreamP346]

For #1, a starting point would be some way to gently ask her point blank "have you ever had an orgasm with me, or at all". If the answer is yes, then I want to know what happened to make it happen, and would she like me to try? If it's no, then to ask has she tried a lot of ways and go from there. I do realize some women just cannot, either for physcial or deep-seated psychological reasons and in that case, many do still enjoy sex anyway.

You want to have a conversation, not an integoration. The description above will garaunee she will shut down. Here is how you want to approach:

Sit on the coach with a glass of wine. "I love you so much, you are the best thing that happened to me, etc..."
"I love making love with you. It makes me feel close to you, etc..."
"I love it when you are on top because....Do you think we could try it more. I've been missing it lately in our love making"
"Is there any positions you like better or maybe some new ones that we haven't tried yet?"
"Tell me what you like best about sex? For me its when we kiss. I like it even better than when we have intercourse."
"I so want to bring you to orgasm. I've heard that oral really works for women rather than intercourse. Could we try. I just love the taste of you, it drives me nuts. Unless there is something else you would like me to do."

Just image you are a high school teacher with a bunch of kids that have no interest in the topic you are teaching. You want to make it engaging and fun. Don't make her feel inadequate. Make her feel this is a productive conversation about your sexual relationship together and how to better it. Don't make her feel like she in having a conversation with her homeroom teacher about why she isn't getting as good grades.

Remember, what you think is important (her having an orgasm) may not be what is important to her. For example, she may get satisfaction in making you cum fast whereas you are trying to figure out how to make it last longer. You don't know until you talk about it. Ask if she likes you to take control and tell her what to do or vice versa.

[Joe77]

Thanks for the info, sp346. The issue I am anticipating is that she will simply give her typical "it's fine" response when I ask about positions SHE wants to try, meaning, the way we do it is "fine". I hate that word, by the way, "fine" - it means "just OK" in my mind, neither good nor bad, but I digress.

I also have a feeling she will just say "oh, it's fine, don't worry about it". Now, if she gives that answer, should I just let it go?

I guess here's my position: IF she is completely incapable of orgasm, then that's how it is. However, if it's simply because she has never REALLY let loose enough to try, then I think she is missing out.

I know that orgasm might not matter to her, but I would like to be able to have enough of a conversation to find out. It hurts me that she isn't even willing to share those deepest secrets and desires.

If she really just wants to make me cum fast, then that goes back to my suspicion that she just wants to get it over with. SOMETIMES I get that that will happen, but all the time?

I definitely do NOT want it to sound like an interrogation. I do think the lack of her on top is either due to either it being physically difficult, or painful, or uncomfortable. Or its a body image issue. Is it OK to say "I love when you're on top, and would like to try it more, but if it hurts you or you don't like it, that's OK, I just want you to share your feelings about it with me."

[Joe77]

One time when I asked her, after telling her how amazing she was and how much she turned me on, I said "so what do you want to get out of sex?" and all she said was a shy "I don't know..."

I fear that the conversation, once I attempt to have it, is just going to be filled with a bunch of "I don't know's".

[Joe77]

Here was what I was thinking.

First off, lately sex is something that I think is very far from her mind, and I sometimes softly complain about not getting it, not directly, but making comments like asking her why she bothers being on the mini-pill, etc. I say it in a joking tone but perhaps it's not helping things. So, I have stopped that.

My other plan is to make sure she realizes she is appreciated, and make sure I give her plenty of massages, and such, and I want to surprise her with a date night this month, not tell her I'm planning it until I say "get dressed we're going out" when the sitter (who is a friend of hers) shows up at the house. Finally, I did tell her that I want to give her a "night off" and that maybe I should also get a "night off" once per month when the other takes care of the kids for the night. One thing we have neglected is "us" time, which a lot of couples go through with small children.

I'm doing this with NO EXPECTATION of sex, and that is my next point. My plan is to not ask her to HAVE sex for the next 2 months and see if she either comments on it, or, (unlikely) actually says she wants to do it. The idea is to take that "pressure" off her and let her have one less thing to "worry" about.

So:

1. Is this a good idea?

2. If I do this, should I TELL her I am going to lay off sex a while, or just do it and see if she notices? By telling her, I also will apologize for making her feel pressured, and that I've been selfish about sex lately, and that I am sorry.

3. Regarding the conversation about the quality of sex and her feelings about it, as well as my desires to do different things, If I am going to try my "no asking for sex for a while" idea, should this conversation wait if I am going to do this, or can I open a conversation by saying "first off I am going to not ask for sex for a while...etc...but I did want to know if we could talk about a few things that are on my mind regarding sex"-then go into the conversation, and end it with her knowing that for a month or two, she can clear her head a little and then when the time is right she can maybe enter with a clear mind and new ideas (if she decides to be open to them)?

[DreamP346]

Here was what I was thinking.

First off, lately sex is something that I think is very far from her mind, and I sometimes softly complain about not getting it, not directly, but making comments like asking her why she bothers being on the mini-pill, etc. I say it in a joking tone but perhaps it's not helping things. So, I have stopped that.

My other plan is to make sure she realizes she is appreciated, and make sure I give her plenty of massages, and such, and I want to surprise her with a date night this month, not tell her I'm planning it until I say "get dressed we're going out" when the sitter (who is a friend of hers) shows up at the house. Finally, I did tell her that I want to give her a "night off" and that maybe I should also get a "night off" once per month when the other takes care of the kids for the night. One thing we have neglected is "us" time, which a lot of couples go through with small children.

I'm doing this with NO EXPECTATION of sex, and that is my next point. My plan is to not ask her to HAVE sex for the next 2 months and see if she either comments on it, or, (unlikely) actually says she wants to do it. The idea is to take that "pressure" off her and let her have one less thing to "worry" about.

So:

1. Is this a good idea?

2. If I do this, should I TELL her I am going to lay off sex a while, or just do it and see if she notices? By telling her, I also will apologize for making her feel pressured, and that I've been selfish about sex lately, and that I am sorry.

3. Regarding the conversation about the quality of sex and her feelings about it, as well as my desires to do different things, If I am going to try my "no asking for sex for a while" idea, should this conversation wait if I am going to do this, or can I open a conversation by saying "first off I am going to not ask for sex for a while...etc...but I did want to know if we could talk about a few things that are on my mind regarding sex"-then go into the conversation, and end it with her knowing that for a month or two, she can clear her head a little and then when the time is right she can maybe enter with a clear mind and new ideas (if she decides to be open to them)?

I like your suggestions a lot. The only thing I would suggest changing is the "no sex" idea. What is sex? Is that kissing also? Do you want to abstain from that also. How about saying you will abstain from intercourse and try to just enjoy each other physicially without the traditional idea of sex. Maybe that is kissing, lying together naked, rubbing each other's bodies, etc. Definitely talk to her about it because she may wonder what's going on or think that no sex is going to be the norm.

Communication is the key. I went through a similar situation with my husband (he had the low desire). Talking about it helps SOOOOO much. That open communication without being hurt or accusatory is a must. You need to show your wife how this is hurting you, that you are willing to work with her needs and desires but at the same time, you need her to meet you half way. This will not happen over night. Trust me. I am still working on things with my husband but every day is getting better.

About being on top, many women feel very self conscious about weight issues. Try in the dark and see if that will aleviate some of her misgivings. Also, a glass of wine really works too

The "fine" issue, tell her that you don't like it. Tell her to you that just says its mediocre. Tell her you would rather hear it was bad so you can improve or that it was great. She won't change unless you tell her how you feel about it.

[Joe77]

I like your suggestions a lot. The only thing I would suggest changing is the "no sex" idea. What is sex? Is that kissing also? Do you want to abstain from that also. How about saying you will abstain from intercourse and try to just enjoy each other physicially without the traditional idea of sex. Maybe that is kissing, lying together naked, rubbing each other's bodies, etc. Definitely talk to her about it because she may wonder what's going on or think that no sex is going to be the norm.

So, basically, I SHOULD have this conversation now, as a prelude to my idea? Is that right?

As far as the allowing kissing, etc., well that is part of my point. When we kiss passionately, it us usually ME kissing HER with little participation on her part. There's never any tongue, no real opening of the mouth, etc. I like all that stuff and while she has never verbally said so I assume she does not, so I don't bother trying. She doesn't even seem to like kissing much and usually backs off after 20 seconds or so. She doesn't avoid me kissing her again after that, just backs off again after a few seconds. She has ALWAYS done this. I've even asked her if my breath is bad and she says "no, it's fine" (that seems to be her response to anything that she might be uncomfortable talking about) and I've even gone as far as asking if I wasn't kissing her the way she liked. Same answer.

This, however, is a good way to open the discussion. I can say how I feel and see if she will talk some, and then say, by the way, why don't we try having no intercourse, but instead try to focus on each others' entire bodies.

I will add one thing though. She doesn't touch me during sex at all really, she won't touch my penis or anything at all. She used to a little but always seemed to act like she was handling a hot potato.

Even back rubs etc. are skewed about 90/10 in her favor, and if I ask for a back rub or scratch, I get maybe 90 seconds whereas she gets as much as half an hour or more. I'm OK with this since as "mom" she has a lot more on her plate, even though both of us work, and I do help a lot with the kids and house.

Communication is the key. I went through a similar situation with my husband (he had the low desire). Talking about it helps SOOOOO much. That open communication without being hurt or accusatory is a must. You need to show your wife how this is hurting you, that you are willing to work with her needs and desires but at the same time, you need her to meet you half way. This will not happen over night. Trust me. I am still working on things with my husband but every day is getting better.

I get you. I really have to be careful though because I easily (without intending to) veer into a more "accusatory" or "interrogative" tone, especially since she is rarely forthcoming with information.

I just don't want to CAUSE marital issues when everything else seems OK. Plus, I've already told her that sometimes she seems to hold things in, and that I have concerns she is dropping back into depression (she had problems years ago before we met with it) and she thanked me for my concern and said that "for now, I'm OK I think". I don't want her to feel like I'm having second thoughts about our marriage or something (I am of course definitely NOT) since I've been trying to have "talks" lately.

I don't expect it over night.

About being on top, many women feel very self conscious about weight issues. Try in the dark and see if that will aleviate some of her misgivings. Also, a glass of wine really works too

Either that, or it's a "too much work" or fatigue thing, or maybe it hurts her. She has said that since the babies, her hips sometimes hurt and she "tickles" "down there" a lot when I touch her. If I just say I like it, she might just give me a non answer. If I ask "WHY" she might shut down...how do I address this?

The "fine" issue, tell her that you don't like it. Tell her to you that just says its mediocre. Tell her you would rather hear it was bad so you can improve or that it was great. She won't change unless you tell her how you feel about it.

OK. Although part of the reason she says it might just be that sex isn't a big enough deal ot her to be good or bad, and if that's the case I'd rather her just say it. Since right now, I am assuming that anyway. Is it OK for me to say it to her like that, or like this:

"Babe, I am saying all this because I love you, and I want to please you as much as possible. I also know that everyone's idea of pleasure is different, so if the reason you say fine is because you're happy regardless, or because sex is something that isn't a big deal to you, then just say that, I love you and I married you because of you, not because of sex. I just want to be able to talk about it and make it as great as it can be."

As a final note, Is it weird that I'm the man and *I* am the one thinking "we need to talk??" Isn't that usually the woman talking and the man refusing to communicate?

Thanks to all for being here. I tried to find someone in real life to talk to but can't think of anyone who could help. My male friends are pretty useless in my experience for this stuff - one is 35 and dating college girls again after a divorce, the other has far bigger issues, and still others would just say "man up and tell her who is boss" or something. As far as female friends, it's awkward, especially since I feel I am crossing a line telling a female friend about sex issues with my wife!!! The only one I could talk to is actually a woman I had a brief college fling with, so that's a BIG conflict of interest, since I've slept with her!!

[ItsASecret]

The issue I am anticipating is that she will simply give her typical "it's fine" response when I ask about positions SHE wants to try, meaning, the way we do it is "fine". I hate that word, by the way, "fine" - it means "just OK" in my mind, neither good nor bad, but I digress.

It is clear that word "fine" bothers you but what you need to remember when you do sit down with her you need to keep your tone very neutral. No raising of the voice, no sighs, no rolling of the eyes (don't think you would do this anyway but I am just saying), no frustration present. We only know you by what you write here so it seems to me at least you may become a little flustered while trying to talk to her, partly because you are understandably frustrated and partly because you are nervous to say anything. Understandable. If you show frustration she will clam up, because like you said talking about sex is not something that she really wants to do so being confronted with an unappealing tone is likely to zip her lip...not what you want.

You know your wife best, is she the type of woman that would respond to a long drawn out comment like "I love you very much, I love the way you look the way you feel but I have to admit our love making is not as fun as it once was and I would like to find a way to make things into the wonderful way it once was so we could become closer?" just to get the subject out there. Or would she more likely respond to a comment like "I love you very much but I feel we are drifting apart in the sex department and I would like to work towards making us closer again". Some women like the long descriptor, list 16 things about her body before getting to the point of the conversation, some prefer the question right up front. How you sit down with her and how you open up the subject is based on how you know your wife's personality is.

It is very unlikely you will be able to get her into a full out conversation about her "deepest secrets and desires". She does not like to talk about sex so going into nit picky details is likely the last thing she wants to do. So for starters if you can get her to say she agrees to even the question of "do you think our sex life has changed to less frequency since we started dating and got married" then you can use that as a baby step towards more questions. Do not just jump into the issue, think of ways to make baby steps. A question about orgasm may not happen for a long time but if at some point you can bring it up simply ask "what is your opinion on you having an orgasm, is that something important to you?"...if she says no then say "okay I understand but I would like you to know that I would like you to have an orgasm with me one day because it would be nice to see you experience that pleasure"...you would not be confronting her or getting annoyed that she said no but you presented the subject of wanting her to experience an orgasm with you which shows that you care for her pleasure.

Is it OK to say "I love when you're on top, and would like to try it more, but if it hurts you or you don't like it, that's OK, I just want you to share your feelings about it with me."

I think if you brought up the subject of a different position this would be a good thing to say. You need to establish that you care about her feelings without making it about doing some out there wild. Simply mentioning you would like to try something new but finding something that was still comfortable is the key.

I fear that the conversation, once I attempt to have it, is just going to be filled with a bunch of "I don't know's".

It likely will be filled with I don't knows. But you need to ask her for her opinion, she will not go in depth she may simply say "sure that would be nice". Bluntly asking is likely to be met with nothing but if you slowly ease into the question she may at least say more than I don't know. Ask her if she would like to just be kissed, no sex, just kissing. Ask her if there is something about the massages that she loves that she enjoys (makes her talk about the thing you know she enjoys) and ask if she would like to feel that sort of enjoyment one night where it is all about just making her feel good, no sex, just gently caressing her and making her feel good. She could say "sure that would be nice". Then maybe bring up that you know certain sex positions are not as comfortable but you would like to try one new position that could remain comfortable but just have something different for a change, say one position so that it is not an overwhelming list lol.

[ItsASecret]

1. Is this a good idea?

2. If I do this, should I TELL her I am going to lay off sex a while, or just do it and see if she notices? By telling her, I also will apologize for making her feel pressured, and that I've been selfish about sex lately, and that I am sorry.

3. Regarding the conversation about the quality of sex and her feelings about it, as well as my desires to do different things, If I am going to try my "no asking for sex for a while" idea, should this conversation wait if I am going to do this, or can I open a conversation by saying "first off I am going to not ask for sex for a while...etc...but I did want to know if we could talk about a few things that are on my mind regarding sex"-then go into the conversation, and end it with her knowing that for a month or two, she can clear her head a little and then when the time is right she can maybe enter with a clear mind and new ideas (if she decides to be open to them)?

1. Yes it is a good idea. Women like to know they do not need to be stressed about daily activities. If she enjoys those date nights then perfect, take her to the restaurant you know she loves...make it all about making her happy that night. The less stress she has the better.

2. I agree with sp, you need to establish that no sex means no intercourse but still have the affection. If you go without the kisses or laying in bed together she may think this is the new thing that you have drifted off to and she will mold into that expectation. If you are passing by her in the kitchen say "that smells fantastic" kiss her cheek or neck and just walk away. No big focus just a quick little "I love you" gesture. Small little things remember.

3. I am not sure about this one. She does not seem like the type of woman that dwells on comments so saying you would like to try something new then going to no sex may just be a quick "okay" and out of sight out of mind type thing. You could mention those things anyway but it kinda sounds like it would just be in one ear out the other while you are abstaining from intercourse for however long. Certainly bring up the subjects after some time has passed, maybe after the whole time I am not sure, but I think you should not expect her to sit there pondering what you said for the whole time. She could, who knows, but it kinda sounds like she wouldn't.

The whole touching you thing is harder to work on. If she is naturally not a touchy feely person trying to make them into one is an uphill battle. Again baby steps though. Maybe one night say you have had a tough day at work and if it would be okay if she rubbed or scratched your back for a while, ask for a pump of lotion on her hand so that it lasts until all the lotion has gone into you therefore making the massage longer lol.

She has said that since the babies, her hips sometimes hurt and she "tickles" "down there" a lot when I touch her. If I just say I like it, she might just give me a non answer. If I ask "WHY" she might shut down...how do I address this?

My hips are messed up too, I am only 23 though lol, and I know when I am on top I can get strained because I have to hold myself up (my bf's penis is a bit larger so I cannot sit flat). It is certainly not my favorite position because of the hip and leg pain though. Say you understand that on top may not be the best choice because you know it can hurt her and you do not want her to hurt. But the tickling feeling is very common. It is simply very sensitive down there, the light touches may be too much sensitivity wise and it can end up tickling. Ask her if you could try to touch her there just to see how you could avoid the sensitivity, you are not in it for sex purposes, you just want to see what sort of touch does not lead to a tickle so that she can feel good without getting that annoying feeling.

[Joe77]

It is clear that word "fine" bothers you but what you need to remember when you do sit down with her you need to keep your tone very neutral. No raising of the voice, no sighs, no rolling of the eyes (don't think you would do this anyway but I am just saying), no frustration present. We only know you by what you write here so it seems to me at least you may become a little flustered while trying to talk to her, partly because you are understandably frustrated and partly because you are nervous to say anything. Understandable. If you show frustration she will clam up, because like you said talking about sex is not something that she really wants to do so being confronted with an unappealing tone is likely to zip her lip...not what you want.

You know your wife best, is she the type of woman that would respond to a long drawn out comment like "I love you very much, I love the way you look the way you feel but I have to admit our love making is not as fun as it once was and I would like to find a way to make things into the wonderful way it once was so we could become closer?" just to get the subject out there. Or would she more likely respond to a comment like "I love you very much but I feel we are drifting apart in the sex department and I would like to work towards making us closer again". Some women like the long descriptor, list 16 things about her body before getting to the point of the conversation, some prefer the question right up front. How you sit down with her and how you open up the subject is based on how you know your wife's personality is.

It is very unlikely you will be able to get her into a full out conversation about her "deepest secrets and desires". She does not like to talk about sex so going into nit picky details is likely the last thing she wants to do. So for starters if you can get her to say she agrees to even the question of "do you think our sex life has changed to less frequency since we started dating and got married" then you can use that as a baby step towards more questions. Do not just jump into the issue, think of ways to make baby steps. A question about orgasm may not happen for a long time but if at some point you can bring it up simply ask "what is your opinion on you having an orgasm, is that something important to you?"...if she says no then say "okay I understand but I would like you to know that I would like you to have an orgasm with me one day because it would be nice to see you experience that pleasure"...you would not be confronting her or getting annoyed that she said no but you presented the subject of wanting her to experience an orgasm with you which shows that you care for her pleasure.



I think if you brought up the subject of a different position this would be a good thing to say. You need to establish that you care about her feelings without making it about doing some out there wild. Simply mentioning you would like to try something new but finding something that was still comfortable is the key.



It likely will be filled with I don't knows. But you need to ask her for her opinion, she will not go in depth she may simply say "sure that would be nice". Bluntly asking is likely to be met with nothing but if you slowly ease into the question she may at least say more than I don't know. Ask her if she would like to just be kissed, no sex, just kissing. Ask her if there is something about the massages that she loves that she enjoys (makes her talk about the thing you know she enjoys) and ask if she would like to feel that sort of enjoyment one night where it is all about just making her feel good, no sex, just gently caressing her and making her feel good. She could say "sure that would be nice". Then maybe bring up that you know certain sex positions are not as comfortable but you would like to try one new position that could remain comfortable but just have something different for a change, say one position so that it is not an overwhelming list lol.

As far as "fine" is it OK to say "well, fine is OK, but I would rather hear good or great, or bad if that is the case. Fine is something you say for something that doesn't matter much, like, 'sorry I broke the dish' or 'sorry I'm late', then 'fine' means 'it is what it is but its OK' That is not what a guy wants to hear when he asks if the sex was good!" If I say it in a neutral, friendly tone, is that OK?

I do get flustered...yes. She'd respond better to the short and sweet comment, I think. However, if I pose it as a "frequency of sex" issue, it will get thrown right back as "tired, kids, work, etc" which is about 90% true. She has said that sex isn't on her mind when "there is so much to do" (meaning housework, laundry, kid stuff, bills, etc) and we're tired. If a prerequesite for sex is to be well-rested and have nothing to do, I might as well just prepare to never have sex again!

My concern is more the passion when we DO have it and the fact that it was this way to some degree even before kids.

If I do get any "I don't knows" out of her, would an acceptable response be "That's OK, maybe you could try to think about it some and let me know, maybe google it or something. You'd be surprised what you can find" and then throw in a sly little smile and move to the next point. She actually does get flirty when she's in the mood, but it's been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

She does have a tendency not to accept comments. She has a large butt, which I find sexy and she hates. If I make a remark like "nice ***" or "cute butt" she just says "you're crazy" and laughs, or says "I'm fat" instead of accepting the compliment. Gee, when I type that out, it makes me wonder if a large part of this is her own body image.

I'm not sure whether I should go the orgasm route first or the position. I was thinking "position" first, maybe the one where I stand and she lies on the bed, to see if it's a bit easier on her.

The other thing is, she's so tight-lipped that I don't even know what "terms" she prefers to use for genitals in a sexual sense (d*ck, c*ck, penis, vagina, p*ssy, etc). I assume she prefers not to mention them at all or use indirect references like "down there" and "inside". This will take a bit more work I think but I thought maybe having this be part of the conversation, in a way like "well, even just the terminology, I don't know how to describe things since I never hear you use any words to refer to our parts" and see what she says.

What's funny though...she has no problem, for example, with the word p**sy (I hope WH doesn't just asterisk the whole thing). Just last week the cat jumped in the tub and she chuckled and said "oh no, my p**sy's wet". She would NEVER EVER say that to refer to her own vagina but has no problem doing it as a joke. It almost seems teenagerish to me. (I'd never say that last sentence to her!)