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  • effy2014
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1777

    Originally posted by Little
    When it comes to the straight facts, it's more about a lack of vindication for infant circumcision than any pool of evidence in favor of it. So if infant circumcision is a more invasive procedure than is necessary for the benefits, and circumcision at any age is a more invasive surgery than is necessary to treat its intended disease, what else is there? If infants are not circumcised, they lose none of the possible benefits of the foreskin and at the same time don't lose out on any of the potential studied benefits of circumcision.
    That may or may not be true. A recent review of studies in BMC Pediatrics concludes:

    "An immediate medical benefit is the greatly reduced risk of a urinary tract infection (UTI), which is higher in infancy than any other year of life, and 10 times greater if the infant male is uncircumcised [21-26]. UTIs are common in uncircumcised infant boys [22-26] and cause severe pain. UTI as a cause of a fever at this age is often undiagnosed [27,28]. Bacteriuria in febrile boys presenting at hospital emergency departments occurs in 36% of uncircumcised boys, pointing to a UTI as the likely cause of fever, compared with only 1.6% of boys who are circumcised [29]. Antibiotic resistance in pathogenic bacteria under the foreskin is a growing problem [30]. The younger the infant, the more likely and severe the UTI will be, and the greater the risk of sepsis and death [31]. In the still-growing pediatric kidney [26,32] a UTI can result in permanent kidney damage in 34-86% of cases [33,34], thus exposing the boy to serious, life-threatening conditions later in life [26], including end-stage renal disease in 10% of cases [35]. In men, risk of UTI is over 5-fold higher if they are uncircumcised [36]. Thus infant MC offers protection against UTI over the lifetime."

    When coupled with the higher complication rate of adult circumcision (even if much of it can be explained as minor) and the ever present risk associated with general anesthesia used in the procedure, there is indeed sufficient medical support for infant circumcision.

    However, I agree with Little that one can overuse or over-critique studies. In the final analysis, as the AAP concludes: the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs.
    "The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you." Despair.com "Dysfunction"

    Comment

    • CHANDLERS WISH
      • Mar 2008
      • 22440

      Originally posted by effy2014
      Over the last several days, I could not comprehend why it was so difficult for people to write what is quoted above. CW feels that the subject is too emotional for me, which is simply untrue; what became irritating was the unfolding realization that, with respect to a subject that has "a lot of shades of grey" and where opinions (the qualitative approach you describe) about the data are important, intelligent adults could not agree that both sides have a valid point of view. I never had an issue with your or any other parent's "leave intact" decision nor did I hope to convince anyone to change positions.
      I believe I owe you an apology, then Effy .

      Frustrating and Irritating is different than emotions.

      I guess I also as a "poster" wanted and want as maybe do others to not purely focus on data, facts. As, that closes the door for other comments that may be valid to that particular person's thoughts on the said topic "Good or Bad" what do you think.

      And I did feel perhaps your "frustration" that my views or others weren't on topic.

      So again I apologise
      PUT A LITTLE 'LIKE' IN MY SOUL!

      Comment

      • Motorguy
        Veteran Member
        • Mar 2014
        • 3921

        Originally posted by CHANDLERS WISH
        I believe I owe you an apology, then Effy .

        Frustrating and Irritating is different than emotions.

        I guess I also as a "poster" wanted and want as maybe do others to not purely focus on data, facts. As, that closes the door for other comments that may be valid to that particular person's thoughts on the said topic "Good or Bad" what do you think.

        And I did feel perhaps your "frustration" that my views or others weren't on topic.

        So again I apologise
        Very well said CW and to the point. Like Effy is saying when most guy's who are circumcised the parents are doing what is best for there son right or wrong. That's what there thinking when a doctor tells them it's the right thing to do so then parents will do just that the right thing in there minds.
        When out driving always turn left. Then, should you become lost, you can find your way home by reversing the procedure and always turning right.

        Comment

        • effy2014
          Veteran Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1777

          Originally posted by CHANDLERS WISH
          I believe I owe you an apology, then Effy .
          I did not come back to this thread after my last post until now. CW, you do not owe me an apology. You are one of the most sensitive, compassionate, empathetic and intelligent people on this forum (and in general as well). I am thankful that we can discuss almost any issue here. It's all good.
          "The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you." Despair.com "Dysfunction"

          Comment

          • CHANDLERS WISH
            • Mar 2008
            • 22440

            What can I say to that? Thanks Effy
            PUT A LITTLE 'LIKE' IN MY SOUL!

            Comment

            • ChristinaHedge
              Member
              • May 2014
              • 31

              When my brother was getting circumcised, apparently the doctor share my view on circumcision. He asked her "Sure, I can! Any other little bits you want lopped off? A toe or finger, while I am at it, perhaps?" He did and she felt bad afterwards. I think it gave her something to think about. She remembered it as being very rude. I think it was very insightful, as to circumcisions necessity.

              Comment

              • Romy
                Veteran Member
                • Jan 2014
                • 339

                Originally posted by CHANDLERS WISH
                Yes, Effy for you, for me, for her, for him... Isn't that normal of any discussion?

                Then in my opinion, as stated for years here by both Little and myself and sometimes we even remind each other of this.

                If it is TOO emotional, too raw to your heart, soul. Do NOT go on a thread.

                I am not being rude Effy because I think the world of you and you know that, I don't know you but I do.

                Yet, I read what you wrote the page before when Romy decided to look up Australia, yes I am in this conversation and so is she, it's not all about America it's an open Forum and she found that it really doesn't happen here and that's right. I wanted to thank her for including me, looking it up as it was America/America/America, yet an open discussion but you seemed to be so upset that I let it go and left the thread. Then Romy came and gave her heart thereafter. Her thoughts her honest pure thoughts. But I felt you got upset over that, as you then referred any comment contrary to you, were from women.

                I'm sorry but the question has nothing to do with one Country, women or men, rather everywhere, everyone and how they feel on the said subject and we are going to have our opinions and rightly so.

                Yet we as women got shot down as " it seems to only be women" that disagree. I already pointed out that "someone" who was a male was upset of the fact that he was.

                I always said I'm on the fence, that I believe though what you are born with, the way you are born has to stand for something before man decided to interfere.. My own fiancé has had the cut, he is ok with it apparently so are his mates so I am satisfied that "some" are ok with it. But, I think I'm also entitled to feel that man has made this decision. Aren't I?



                I think this is way to close to you I think your constant bombarding of your beliefs and critic over other's comments are because this is too close to you and I'd like to think you are man enough to realise that some agree some don't and a debate is exactly that, done in a peaceful manner of discussion not with anger.

                I'd ask that you not reply to this thread any further because I think this subject is too close to you..and I know you are a better person who can get that.
                You're the best!!! How lucky are we to have you looking out for everyone on this forum. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hold you with the upmost respect.

                Comment

                • CHANDLERS WISH
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 22440

                  I'm not sure this thread is ever going to close

                  Thank you Romy, that's lovely of you and appreciated...
                  PUT A LITTLE 'LIKE' IN MY SOUL!

                  Comment

                  • Stillness
                    WH Poster of the Month April 2017
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 3679

                    Originally posted by ChristinaHedge
                    circumcisions necessity.
                    I don't think that anyone believes that circumcision is physically necessary. But, if there is a cultural or religious requirement or tradition is it bad? Is it good to withhold a rite that connects a child to his community or makes him a member in good standing? Is it right to leave him in a state that may make him an outcast? Especially if this tradition has benefits.

                    I remember being surprised to hear a friend refer to an uncircumcised penis as a "nasty **." She wasn't a Jew, a Muslim, or a member of any community that views this as sacred. Her mother had taught her that uncircumcised men pass disease more easily. This was 20 years ago. I had never heard that sentiment at the time. If that's the feeling outside of those communities, what must it be inside of them? Why put a child through that?
                    "Those sowing seed with tears
                    Will reap with a joyful shout." - Psalm 126

                    Comment

                    • Motorguy
                      Veteran Member
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 3921

                      Well we will never know Stillness, The only thing i can think is that many parents research it more now. Then the dads who where circumcision over 40 years ago figure was the right thing to do when there sons where born as well. I just think that many new parents have change there views about circumcisions now days. But there is good research the men who are not circumcised have a higher rate of penile cancer then men who are not.
                      When out driving always turn left. Then, should you become lost, you can find your way home by reversing the procedure and always turning right.

                      Comment

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