[ChelseaRenee]

Minivanman, I think evryone has jumped to conclusions here. I understood your point to be that you still find your wife attractive. Beauty and attraction are two different things. I think a lot of men are handsome but there are only a handful I find attractive, they are not necessarily the most handsome to everyone else.
I will not make any comments on the porn because it has never been part of my marriage(that I know of).
I would like to comment on your situation because it was similar to mine. We also had a 10 year dry spell of having sex once a month. Why did my sex drive dimninish? It really never did, it was just supressed. It was all a result of our relationship.You're wondering how we fixed our relationship. Well we haven't. Nothing in our relationship outside the bedroom has changed except my attitude. For women sex is very much interwound with our emotions. Men, at least my husband, has sex and emotions in 2 independent compartments in the brain. They don't seem to connect at all. Well I decided that if my husband could do it so could I. It would be ideal if our newfound sex life could improve our relationship, but not likely.
The good news is it works more permanently the other way around. I was bringing my emotions into the bedroom and that might be what your wife is doing. Does she ever comment on what she would like to see changed? Pay attention to what she says. It's worth a try. Like you said it's better with someone else than by yourself.

I understand there's a difference between attraction and beauty, and those two things can be separated, OUTSIDE the context of a relationship. In one, there should be both. The fact that he doesn't find his wife hot, which he clearly stated, I don't think anyone's disputing that, is a problem, attraction being there or not. It's sad.

[Rose5]

Chelse, I don't know minivanman so I will not speak for him but speaking in general terms you say that in a relationship you must find your partner both beautiful and attractive. In an ideal world that may be true but it's not always the case. Of course it would be wonderful if it was always this way.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When you look at someone you can see outer beauty as well as inner beauty. Sometimes there is someone that is beautiful outside but quite ugly on the inside, and vise versa. I believe attraction is when you look at the inside. Notice how we usually gravitate towards certain type of people. We are attracted(sexually or not sexually) to something about them.
If you find someone beautiful and attractive but are constantly rejected by them, sexually or not, eventually they become a little less beautiful to you. Finding someone hot has to be reciprocated.
I do agree with you that it is a very sad situation. Unfortunately it happens way too often because of the fact that men and women are so different. We react to the same situation so differently. I guess that's why we find them so attractive.

[Little]

Everyone needs to keep things respectful in this conversation. I'll remind everyone that personal attacks are not allowed.
MiniVanMan, I admire that you are trying to work out the problems in your relationship. I know how discouraging a thing it is to be the more sexually driven partner in a relationship, regardless of the attraction factor between the partners.

[MiniVanMan]

Indeed, you have misunderstood me

I never meant to say that I did not find my wife attractive. I was only making the point that even though she's not hot like the women in porn, I still want to have sex with her, and by that I do mean that I find her attractive.

I can give her gifts, give her a massage, do thoughtful things for her that make her feel desirable, and still not get a sexual response from her. I don't believe she thinks I don't find her attractive. On the other hand we both occasionally joke that neither one of us is going to win any beauty contests. Like here friend admiringly said to me recently, "You married her for her brain, not her looks". We both understand that we can be attracted to each other without being great looking.

And yes, my tone has changed since this thread started. I've talked myself into a bit of a frenzy and I apologize. I am a happy-go-lucky guy for the most part, but this particular subject can really get me going. Don't most of us post here because we want to either gripe about our lives or we want to help someone? I'm just venting, and appreciate all your comments.

[C]

I never meant to say that I did not find my wife attractive. I was only making the point that even though she's not hot like the women in porn, I still want to have sex with her, and by that I do mean that I find her attractive.

I can give her gifts, give her a massage, do thoughtful things for her that make her feel desirable, and still not get a sexual response from her. I don't believe she thinks I don't find her attractive. On the other hand we both occasionally joke that neither one of us is going to win any beauty contests. Like here friend admiringly said to me recently, "You married her for her brain, not her looks". We both understand that we can be attracted to each other without being great looking.

And yes, my tone has changed since this thread started. I've talked myself into a bit of a frenzy and I apologize. I am a happy-go-lucky guy for the most part, but this particular subject can really get me going. Don't most of us post here because we want to either gripe about our lives or we want to help someone? I'm just venting, and appreciate all your comments.

MiniVanMan: I was not going to post again on this subject and leave it to the young but don't be so sure that she will not change. Women go through so many sexual changes in life. Sometimes the aging and sometimes the falling in and out of love with their own spouses. The hardest thing for two people to do, especially married people, is not to forget yesterday when you married that person. They are the same person but they were years ago but have just aged....Just squint your eyes as you look at them, and pull back time..... I am sure you are trying with her and it is unfortunate that it is not being reciprocated. That is the sad part out of life.

I guess my only advice would be to tell her as many times as you can how much you need her physical love. Tell her you don't want the Porn, you want the warm body of years gone by.... You want her. With my being in such a wonderful sexual relationship marriage, I actually hurt for you.

I hope everything works out for you and wish you well.....Take care...C

[MiniVanMan]

Thank you

Thank you CarolineWH, your advice and encouragement help me a great deal.

I'll consider doing as you suggest, although I'm concerned that telling her too often will imply that sex is all I want from her. I'll have to be careful to also include other ways of saying how wonderful she is without regard to physical love.

- MiniVanMan

[C]

Thank you CarolineWH, your advice and encouragement help me a great deal.

I'll consider doing as you suggest, although I'm concerned that telling her too often will imply that sex is all I want from her. I'll have to be careful to also include other ways of saying how wonderful she is without regard to physical love.

- MiniVanMan

Don't make sex too obvious but warm her up to memories of years gone by. Taking a loved one back to yesterday can make you feel so young. I know for a fact that a woman has to stay stimulated. By not staying stimulated either by herself or her man she forgets to remember all the wonderful parts of being a woman and these are the feelings that really make the world go round.

I wish I could impress on women how wonderful these feelings are as they age. These feelings I talk about start young, and believe me you are still young, and grow with you and make life so worth living.....I know that was too long a sentence so please forgive......

Now you take care and have a happy life....Caroline

[anonymouswhitefemale]

I'm a guy.

Me and my partner aren't that matched, sexually, so I use pornography as a release fairly often. My partner knows this, but doesn't really complain. She makes a joke about it every now and then, but the way I see it it's not cheating and if you aren't sexually satiated then there's no harm in it.

I also think that a lot of problems with this sort of thing is that we, as men, find beautiful women attractive. Not that many women are beautiful, and if you aren't then the chances are it's the person who feels unattractives fault for constantly going on about it, striving for validation.

When we might say our partner isn't the best looking person in the world, that doesn't make us horrible. It makes us honest. And I think it's a bit shameful of a few of you to try and make him the reason/fault. Man hate much?


Admittedly, a relationship where porn is really the only sexual release isn't that healthy - but would a cripple turn down a wheelchair because it's not the best result?

[Fallen1]

When we might say our partner isn't the best looking person in the world, that doesn't make us horrible. It makes us honest. And I think it's a bit shameful of a few of you to try and make him the reason/fault. Man hate much?

I picked up on those few words he had put down and I interpreted it a certain way - which admittedly turned out to be wrong, my apologies to minivanman. My response was not to blame him or anyone but just to simply suggest what I saw as a possible cause to his problem based on what I had read, had nothing to do with "man hate".

Having different sexual drives than your partner is tough and I truly sympathize with anyone who deals with it in their relationships.

[Guest]

And yes, my tone has changed since this thread started. I've talked myself into a bit of a frenzy and I apologize. I am a happy-go-lucky guy for the most part, but this particular subject can really get me going. Don't most of us post here because we want to either gripe about our lives or we want to help someone? I'm just venting, and appreciate all your comments.

van,

please don't apologize. i pointed out the tone change simply to make a point - typically, people first present their use of porn & their spouse's acceptance of it in one light, but when we uncover a few layers we find something different.

i'm just suggesting that your tone seems to indicate that you're not as satisfied with things as you seemed to be in your first post. and i'm questioning whether or not porn is doing such a good job satisfying what's wrong. that's obviously up to you - i already think porn offers false hope & is an imposter of things that are real. your "true feelings" that are surfacing here only serve to confirm that for me. you're able to get off when you want to, and have a relatively good time doing it - but the problem still exists & causes you to feel bitter & angry. it seems to me that porn has done little to help.

i also appreciate your honesty regarding your wife's looks. i understand the comments from other posters, but i didn't think you were diminishing your wife's appeal so much as you were recognizing the obvious: your wife is real; porn is fake. it is impossible for a real woman to ever replicate a fake image presented in porn. body parts are airbrushed & photoshopped to look a certain way - a way that is not real. sex acts in hardcore porn are staged & prepared for, hours of stop & go, reapplying make up, women collecting themselves after something painful - then the whole thing is edited.

imagine a woman trying to compete with that? it's an unending treadmill destined to fail. you'll never be able to airbrush yourself in your bedroom. your thighs are your thighs - you can't edit them.

sadly, girls are hopping onto that treadmill typically before the age of 10 - a treadmill that owes it's very existence largely - not exclusively - to porn.

i would offer that this is reason enough for you to give it up.