[LanaBear]

Is there any chance the two of you can go to counseling? Having a third party be there to help you two communicate.

She's angry, apparently, but I'm guessing she doesn't give you any input on how you "should" go about things?

Is it her assumption that any forms of intimacy is going to lead to sex? Can you give, subtly, and make her want you, make her come to you, if that makes sense...

Are you sure she orgasms or is there a chance that she is faking it?

She obviously has some appearance issues and until she feels good about herself and starts taking better care of herself, there really is little hope that she is going to feel good about being intimate with you.

[pretzel]

I met my new wife in 1995 and have been married for 13 years. I thought I found the one in terms of drive and was set for life. We had twins (now almost 13), we put on weight, she more than me, she swears she is going into menopause (she is 49 so could be peri-menopause). She is not happy with her self and does not take care of herself (doesn't shave her legs, no make-up, goes days without showers, wears soiled clothes). I'm getting turned off typing this but you know what? I love her and am totally attracted to her.

Hi Tom, another guy here, my wife and I are about the same age as you and your wife.

I'm only citing this paragraph because I think, of all the things you wrote, this is an eight hundred pound gorilla sitting in the room going unnoticed.

One thing I've learned here, and I've been here a while is to never underestimate the effects of hormonal imbalance in women. There is a complete forum topic on Menopause (which when I joined, it was for this reason) that may give you a slightly different viewpoint on just what it entails. There are also many regular posters here who have much more knowledge and insight than you or I could ever wish to know. Trust them and their advice.

From what I've read, I have a tendency of thinking that there really are a number of issues involved and to be frank, all of them are physical and not emotional although they tend to manifest themselves as emotional responses. Depression is a major symptom of both peri and full menopause. It's manifesting itself not only in her lack of sex drive, but also her inability to see even the most basic of personal hygiene not being kept. At this point, I'd say this is issue number one. I would like to think she's seen a doctor and has had her hormone levels checked at least a couple of times by now. There really is no other way to really identify where she may be in the stage of menopause without one. A blood test is generally the best way to determine what her levels are. Not always is the length of time between periods and the severity of those periods are really a good indicator. It's an estimate only.

To be honest, I took practically everything else in your OP at face value. I'm not sure you really meant it but that the frustration felt from dealing with someone who really isn't themselves can be tough.

If I can only make one suggestion that would be to get you wife a complete examination. However, given everything you've described, I would get at least two different opinions. Diagnosing menopause and perimenopause for some reason is a diagnosis that many doctors are still reluctant to do.

[LanaBear]

^^ I knew you'd chime in here dear Pretz.

And yeah, I agree, she needs to get into the Dr and get a full check up, hormones, everything.

[pretzel]

^^ I knew you'd chime in here dear Pretz.

And yeah, I agree, she needs to get into the Dr and get a full check up, hormones, everything.

Hey, I wrote most of the OP at one time, didn't I

[WildChild]

I agree with Pretz and Lana. I'm a perimenopausal woman, horny as all get out and learning what this change is all about. Very likely at 49 your wife has been perimenopausal for some time, I understand it takes about 8 -10 yrs to get through. Does she sleep well? This is often an issue and can affect many areas.
Since she's POd over all this, why not use it a spring board for some dialog and change?

Sit down with her, tell her you love her and want to find a way for both of you to be happy in the relationship. Remind her of how the two of you were once and tell her that you think it could be even better in the future, it the two of you are willing to put some effort into it. Tell her you are going in for a full physical and think she should as well, just because as you mature your body's needs change and it's good to stay on top of what is going on with your health, to identify any hidden concerns and to keep a current baseline of information for your doctor. Don't be demamding but be firm that this something you both need to do.

Hopefully she will. I agree that the lack of attention to hygiene and poor self care, very likely point to depression. It isn't necessarily perimenopause but a combination approaching 50 and realizing that time is slipping past, your body isn't what it was, you may not be where you thought you would be, your kids are growing up...In a society where youth is worshipped and valued this hits women especially hard.

If your budget can stand it, get a joint membership to a gym or the rec center so you can both work out or take yoga, zoomba, some sort of activity.
Is your wife very social? Are you? Are there freinds or family members who could help urge her to step up and take care of herself?
Pop into the bookstore or library (you might want to own it so you can underline and flag things) and pick up a copy of, The Wisdom of Memopause by Dr Northrup. It is a marvelous resource, written by a woman doctor who has been there. If nothing else it will give you some insight.

Don't kill your libido, that's a sign that you are healthy. I know it can be frustrating. I've never been with a man who could consistantly deal with a woman who actually wanted sex. My last LTR, he decided that he would no longer kiss, touch or have any kind of foreplay and really just wanted a living masterbation tool for bjs and hjs. I gave him over 2 years to deal with whatever was going on in his head and finally had to move on for my own sanity, yet I still loved him passionately. When you still have children at home it's harder. But educating yourself and gaining more insight certainly won't hurt and who knows, it might help.

[oxy-moron]

Of course check with a specialist but I too had a high sex drive and my husband has a very, very low sex drive.... so I started taking saw palmetto every other day and my sex drive has decreased enough but not too much...Just something to look into but it really seemed to work for me!

Saw Palmetto would tend to restore hormone levels to normal , particularly testosterone and oestrogen. Could work for him as well.

[Tommister]

Thanks for all the quick suggestions and guidance. Personally I think I am out of options. We went to councilors about 5 years ago she to hers and me to mine. Then we had joint sessions. We had one joint session and she found it like an attack, as she was the problem - she is always the victim. Needless to say we never had another joint session. That is the truth - she is the problem and I am too much of a nice guy. And you know what they say about nice guys! My counselor after a few sessions and hearing what was going on, told me that no man would put up with her Sh#$ for long. So I am a whipped wimp for not ending it before I had kids. To be really really honest, I am in financial ruins from the first marriage and most definitely fear paying child support and alimony to her as well as my first ex, if I left her. I would be paying about $75,000 a year after taxes! It wouldn't leave much for me and that is a very depressing thought. So I know I bite my tongue and put up with unacceptable things and tried to make it work. I did it subconsciously at first I suspect then consciously for years. If things don't go her way, she will threaten to destroy property (and has followed through), throws things, yells, posts vindictive things on Facebook, refused to help with laundry cooking, kids, etc. Bottom line is that her emotional maturity is that of a 10 year old. The counselor said that she is not emotionally "house trained". Like a dog, who can't hold it's pee and poo in, it just spews unfiltered emotions everywhere uncontrollably. She has been on antidepressants but can't tolerate any of them for long and stops on her own, using excuses like I'll put on weight (too late sister! that ship already sailed), or that she feels weird after day 2 (I tell her they can take weeks to stabilize things). Yet she is exceptionally intelligent and has an incredible mind in other ways/forums.

By the way - she is most definitely not faking orgasms when I am privileged enough to be given the honor of some action. I do try to give other non-sex inducing things, like comb her hair and massage or snuggling or putting my arm around her while watching out kids play sports.

She has had recent full annual exams from here doctor, including blood tests, x-rays, ultra-sounds and everything is normal. This is not the first either, previously I urged to go to see if her thyroid was okay as her mom is hypo and so is my daughter. Result = normal.

Is she depressed? Yes. We hate where we live - neighboroughs are dickheads and very inconsiderately noisy. We are short on money and high on credit bills. She drinks to escape. That's why we got her to go to a counselor. Which went well until she made one wrong comment then it was over. She has blacklisted her two sisters, hates her mom, and hates all of my family. She makes friends then blacklists them after a few months for saying or doing something that she percieves is bad or simply because they didn't return a wave on a particular day!

This is cathartic for me to get this out, but also very depressing because I know if I were on your side of this, I would be thinking this guy is nuts! Divorce the nutcase and move on with your life. Things are never that easy. I love her but there are many times I wish she would die and me and kids could live happily without the tyranny. I have also convinced myself that this life situation is God's way of punishing me for ending my first marriage. I'm agnostic however, but I continue to think of it as a sentence I must serve.

I have peeled a few layers off of my onion for you and maybe now it's clear that sex is just one of many casualties in my situation.

Thanks again for your help, but I think as I get more and more honest with myself, I am doomed until one of us leaves this mortal coil.

[pretzel]

Tom, I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm there myself at times. I've always told myself the day I gave up is the day I need to walk away. I'm hoping you haven't reached that day.

I still believe that there is an underlying problem that hasn't been addressed. I think your counselor's view of "emotionally not house trained" is, imo, unprofessional especially after a short time of either meeting or discussing her well being. That's not to say I'm right, I just think the situation is deeper rooted than this particular counselor is making.

I think that at this stage, a psychiatrist is in order, assuming she's willing. I'm still not convinced there isn't an underlying medical condition that isn't causing her behavior.

[WildChild]

Pretzel may be right but the question is how do you get her to go in to see another doc? I would see a couple options; one would be for you to start seeing the psychiatrist and get her to come in for a couple sessions to "help you out". If nothing else a good counselor could give you some idea for coping or for responding to her in a different way. The other option would be if she does go off once in a while, throwing things and such, would be to call the police and tell them that you are afraid she will harm herself or the children and that you cannot safely subdue her. Then the legal system will step in but they will likely require an evaluation.

I'm assuming that she did not show signs of this instability prior to marriage? Believe it or not, this could be a sort post partum issue. Something got out of wack and hasn't rebalanced. A general physical may not show up what is going on, especially if they didn't know that there are behavioral problems so that they has some clues what to look out for.

Your daughters are starting to mature and sometimes an emotionally unbalanced mother can be a real problem as her daughters become young women.
I don't know where you live and every area has different laws but it seems like after this many years you should be able to do something about having to pay alimony to a previous spouse. That seems way out of line. In my state, at the most, a woman who doesn't have any marketable skills might a get 2 to 4 years of maintenance to allow her time to get some training and education, after that there is only child support until the kids are 19 or emancipated. You may need to talk to a different attorney and see what their take is. We should be past this idea that women are men's responsibility for life, we are quite capable of supporting ourselves and most legal jurisdicitions recognize that now.

[oxy-moron]

Hi
Search on fish oil and depression. Omega3 has been proven in trials to be extremely effective in treating depression. Without side effects.