[Haven]

It's hard to argue with my points. If you think I'm wrong, then say so. I'm a big boy and can handle a debate.

The only thing I'd say to you is that statements like "million dollars in a mattress = a million dollars in a bank" and "WoW wasn't cutting into my social life" indicate that you could benefit from a greater understanding of atrophy and opportunity cost. I hope this helps you the way your words have helped other people.

ATROPHY:
Motivational hyperbole aside, atrophy is the idea that all things require effort to maintain and that nothing can escape the inevitability of decay. Successful investment will strengthen your assets, making them more resilient to the forces that seek to diminish them. The benefits reaped from a successful investment serve as both the building blocks on which further investments can be made and as capital which can be applied towards future investments. The purchasing power of the million under the mattress and the purchasing power of the million in the bank are both going to suffer from inflation, but only the money in the bank is earning compounded interest with which to offset inflation's decay.

Compounding is an important concept, and it's very interesting when applied it to opportunities. A person who passes up an opportunity isn't missing out on just that opportunity - they're missing out on the compounded opportunities that could've arisen out of that opportunity.

This is the reason for the "your comfort zone is hurting you" motivational speech. People who are willing to invest in the ample opportunities that lie outside their comfort zone reap the compounded benefits of those opportunities. When those people are your competition for a positional good, such as attractiveness, your position will decay if you're not willing to get off your butt and take chances. Many fields in life have advanced to the point where to the point where it's impossible to be truly competitive without years of compounded opportunities bolstering the skills you were born with.

OPPORTUNITY COST:
The basic idea here is that by electing to do one thing in lieu of another, you lose out on all the compounded opportunities that would've been available to you if you'd made the other choice. A statement like "WoW wasn't cutting into my social life" is nonsensical from an opportunity cost perspective: the time you spent playing WoW could've been spent making phone calls to old friends or late-night socializing with all the new friends you could've met.
Everything you do cuts into something else you could've done.

I hope people find this helpful - it was certainly helpful to me to codify and express it.

[WildChild]

Can't resist; having worked in financial services, yes compunding is important but if you think a bank the best place to grow your money you will be disappointed. I would also point out securities laws (investment) strictly regulate who can give financial advice and what type. Watch out for groups or programs that cross the line on this.

[Haven]

As long as you manage expectations up front, then fault cannot fall on your shoulders as long as you don't stray from what you set up.

This is questionable because of the assumption that the expectations you set up will be reasonable. People can easily agree to something that's against their nature, only to find out later on that it was a mistake.

If you were to propose an arrangement which was later broken for this reason, would you say the fault lies with you for initiating it, or would you say the fault lies with the person who didn't know any better than to than to accept it?

[ThexMrs]

I highly doubt that a person who is behind a computer or video games is a social person!

Words dont convince me!

It has been my experience that the two are mutually exclusive. A person who enjoys the outdoors, hiking, biking, running will not sit in front of the TV for hours.

And what I have said has been MY experience. Is We all have different experiences. That doesn't make you or me right. It means we haven't been through the same thing.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I'm thinking about passions..

It's evident when you are totally passionate about something you will go to the end of the earth to display your thoughts of that passion.

Debating.... And, naturally people will debate if they do not either, share that passion, or that belief.

What's important is to keep it non-personal...

As to the poster where did you go?

Obviously this thread has bounced around from people's thoughts on different aspects but it's still on track of "picking up"...

CW

[OG612]

The only thing I'd say to you is that statements like "million dollars in a mattress = a million dollars in a bank" and "WoW wasn't cutting into my social life" indicate that you could benefit from a greater understanding of atrophy and opportunity cost.

A million dollars is a million dollars. Correct?

A statement like "WoW wasn't cutting into my social life" is nonsensical from an opportunity cost perspective: the time you spent playing WoW could've been spent making phone calls to old friends or late-night socializing with all the new friends you could've met.

If you spend your life constantly on the go, then you will never rest. I'm a big believer in maintaining positive energy/keeping my energy right. So if there were a few days a week (three tops) that I decided to play WoW for a few hours instead of going to the bar/club/lounge, the mall, dry cleaners, grocery store, book store, coffee shops, etc., that doesn't mean that I'm missing out on opportunities to reconnect with friends both old and new.

What it means is that I'm resting, doing something, and can talk on the phone, or text message, at the same time. I'm constantly in the loop with what my personal friends are doing. The people that I meet and make a connection with can have those connections strengthened over the phone, or on Facebook, or whatever. If someone said to me "Hey, I had fun the other night. I'll be at the Kewl Beans coffee house at 7, you should come hang" I'll most likely do that instead of playing WoW. I'm still maintaining my energy and building an even stronger connection with a new friend.

Now your statement would make more sense if while playing WoW I had completely blocked off the outside world.

This is questionable because of the assumption that the expectations you set up will be reasonable. People can easily agree to something that's against their nature, only to find out later on that it was a mistake.

People make mistakes. It's part of life. You live and you learn. You cannot learn without experience.

If you were to propose an arrangement which was later broken for this reason, would you say the fault lies with you for initiating it, or would you say the fault lies with the person who didn't know any better than to than to accept it?

Several of my girlfriends in the past, while in a multi-relationship setting, have decided to leave the fold because they were no longer comfortable with the arrangement. They said it's not what they wanted. They discovered that they were "one man women" and that's fine. Polyamory isn't for everybody. There isn't any "fault" in this circumstance.

OG

[Haven]

A million dollars is a million dollars. Correct?

Sure, and if you invest it at 5% APR instead of stuffing it into a mattress, it'll be $1,000,136.99 a day later.
If you're capable of discussing matters at the level at which they're being discussed, it's poor form to play dense for the sake of argument. You wouldn't want me going one deeper and saying, "Not when it's a million DOLL-HAIRS", would you?

If there were a few days a week (three tops) that I decided to play WoW for a few hours instead of going to the bar/club/lounge, the mall, dry cleaners, grocery store, book store, coffee shops, etc., that doesn't mean that I'm missing out on opportunities to reconnect with friends both old and new.

Technically, it does - since you were wherever you were playing games, you weren't wherever else you could have been, doing whatever socializing you could've done while you were there. Those are the missed opportunities I was talking about.
If you were aware of those missed opportunities and decided to forego them, choosing instead to strengthen other relationships while recovering your energy, perfect. The decisions you make with opportunity cost in mind - the knowledge that you could be doing something else, but you're going to do THIS - are decisions you'll rarely regret.

If you were to propose an arrangement which was later broken for this reason, would you say the fault lies with you for initiating it, or would you say the fault lies with the person who didn't know any better than to than to accept it?

People make mistakes. It's part of life. You live and you learn. You cannot learn without experience. . . Polyamory isn't for everybody. There isn't any "fault" in this circumstance.

It's interesting that you'd say neither of you are responsible in that situation. Can you elaborate on that a little?

[OG612]

Sure, and if you invest it at 5% APR instead of stuffing it into a mattress, it'll be $1,000,136.99 a day later.
If you're capable of discussing matters at the level at which they're being discussed, it's poor form to play dense for the sake of argument.

My original statement was, "But a million dollars is a million dollars regardless of whether it's cash stuffed in a mattress, or sitting in a bank account. It has nothing to do with inflation."

I'm not playing defense. I'm keeping to my original statement. So... is a million dollars a million dollars?

You wouldn't want me going one deeper and saying, "Not when it's a million DOLL-HAIRS", would you?

Bring it, Barbie!

Technically, it does - since you were wherever you were playing games, you weren't wherever else you could have been, doing whatever socializing you could've done while you were there. Those are the missed opportunities I was talking about.
If you were aware of those missed opportunities and decided to forego them, choosing instead to strengthen other relationships while recovering your energy, perfect. The decisions you make with opportunity cost in mind - the knowledge that you could be doing something else, but you're going to do THIS - are decisions you'll rarely regret.

And that's exactly right. It's something I choose to do as a way of decompressing after fighting crazy people all day long. Going in to a fantasy world where I can cast lightning and whatnot from my fingers and kill imaginary animals and beasts is fun. The nights that I had planned on staying in and see what I could accomplish, I was usually on the phone checking up with past clients, updating new clients, and making contact with potentials. I'd also be chatting with friends and setting up plans for a day or two later (pending on work schedule).

With my line of work (psych nurse), you need an escape or the job will eat you alive. If I go from the hospital, to the shower, to eat, to hanging with friends or whatever, I'd have no time to really come down and get rid of the stress that was building up over that day, week, or whatever period of time.

It's interesting that you'd say neither of you are responsible in that situation. Can you elaborate on that a little?

They tried it out, liked it for a bit, but felt I wasn't paying them enough attention when they got just as much as the others. I don't play favorites. She knowingly went in to this, knowing I'd be the only man she was allowed to sleep with, but could have my other girlfriends whenever they wanted, and had fun. She found out that this "alternative" lifestyle wasn't for her. It's not for everybody. The only way to truly know what will work for you and what will not is to try something new.

She tried it, enjoyed herself for a bit, but realized that it wasn't for her. They have no regrets and that's awesome. I'll offer to help them heal and move on in an appropriate manner and we've all gone on with our lives. We're not bitter. We're not upset with each other. It just didn't work out and I wish them all the best. Why should someone be to "blame" for something that both knew what the agreement was going in to it? Not all relationships work out.

Now had they come at me with negativity and resentment, I'd place the blame on them for not living up to their own agreement. Had I mistreated them brought about their resentment, I'd place the blame squarely on my shoulders.

OG

[Little]

And what is good, Phaedrus, And what is not good -- Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
How can any one of us decide what is good or not good for another person, within reasonable limits?
If LLL and Haven want to be constantly active, and it does them and others no inherent harm ... good!
If OG wants comfort and homeostasis and it isn't hurting anyone else ... good!
But something about our culture causes us to point fingers, to call the benign actions and beliefs of others ungood. Or downright bad.
Something about our culture causes less socially apt individuals to pour their money into imitations of other people. Whether that's PUA or plastic surgery, becoming a "gym rat" or a "mean girl."
A confident individual can see through the false confidence PUA gives. One pay pick up 100 girls using the techniques taught by the community, but what does it mean? That you preyed on the insecurities of 100 fellow human beings?
Is that okay? Can someone live with that on their conscience? Do the perceived rewards outweigh the very real loss?
All the PUA tactics I've heard of are harmful to others (and in my universe, therefore bad.) If you can take something healthy and progressive out of that, kudos to you. Maybe the ends justify the means ...
But I don't feel like I should be blamed for thinking that PUA is slimy by nature. It calls ungood what is not necessarily harmful.

[WildChild]

Do no harm
has far reaching and deep implications. Few really understand.