[Ashlee T.]

Are you being overly critical of his decision making abilities?

Nope. Most of the time I don't say anything about it...doesn't mean I don't notice though. I've given this example before as a non-emotional just sort of every day example. I gave him a 5ft piece of pvc pipe and asked him to cut it into 4 pieces while I dug holes for the trees I was planting. He took it, scurried off to the garage, and came back with 3 pieces and said "I only ended up with 3 pieces". I smiled and said "we'll just have to get some more then", all the while knowing that he had seriously not given what he was doing any thought, else he'd have easily turned out with 4 pieces. So, I didn't say anything about his clear lack of thought in this process (and if that instance had been a rare occurrence I'd have thought nothing of it), but smiled and moved on with what we were doing. I figure most the time when he doesn't think something through and messes it up, he's definitely smart enough to know that he did it wrong without me saying a word, and perhaps in time (as he already has to some extent) he will learn that he has to think things through.

Isn't him explaining what he would like more out of from you (ie, affection, emotion, more involvement with your family (give him another chance here)) no different from you offering constructive cricitism to him to help make him and the relationship better?

Most definitely. I'm very glad for him to communicate those things to me. I don't fault him for what he wants at all. Nor do I fault myself for what I want. I would MUCH rather him communicate that stuff to me than for him to act totally oblivious to any problems.

[pretzel]

I totally forgot about that pvc incident. No comment on ones ability to divide by 4.

I think my question is not so much that you want him to talk to you about his feelings and wants, but are you taking his comments to heart just as you've asked him to do for you?

You may have already addressed this since it really is an ongoing issue so forgive me if it has.

[Ashlee T.]

but are you taking his comments to heart just as you've asked him to do for you?

Trying to. But just as he'll probably never not be passive, and he'll probably never not be in constant need of affection and communication.......I may never be Miss Emotional or Miss Affectionate.

Have you seen that episode of Sex and the City where Steve is staying with Maranda alot and he always wants to lay in bed and cuddle with her and it drives her crazy? Yes...that's me. Last night when it got time for me to leave his apt (so I could get my jog in before dark) and I said "Alrighty I'm gonna head home so I can get my jog in", he grabs me back on the couch and says "Noooo I wanna hooold you" in the baby talk. For some reason he always uses baby talk when he has something sweet or mushy he wants to say. A hug and goodbye kiss would have been totally sufficient for me. But it wasn't for him. Although I'd just been with him for the entire afternoon since I'd been off work, (4ish), I tried to leave at 7, and because he wanted to "hoooooold" me, leaving took an extra 30 or so minutes. For me, not necessary at that point. For him, it was apparently needed. And I struggle with being able to change MYSELF for that type of compromise. And let me reiterate that he's not wrong for wanting that. But I'm not wrong for not wanting it either.

[pretzel]

ok, well I guess one thing is really perfectly clear and that he's both immature and insecure. The passivity part of the equation is in his insecurity and lack of self confidence. That seems to be an impression I'm getting from the thread. His immaturity pretty much seems obvious.

One of your first comments in the thread is that this is his first "real" relationship. Not knowing how old the two of you are there may be a reason for that and unfortunately now it's rearing it's ugly head.

I'm trying to remember all the various issues you've raised and if I remember correctly "mommy" issues was raised at one point. You're not his mother and shouldn't treat him as such. I agree he needs to grow up, the "Sex and the City" example of him not wanting you to leave when you wanted is a sign. It's almost like you can't go to bed until he's tucked nicely under the covers and has had his bedtime story read. Maybe I'm wrong and hope so because you've invested alot into this relationship.

[Ashlee T.]

One of your first comments in the thread is that this is his first "real" relationship. Not knowing how old the two of you are there may be a reason for that and unfortunately now it's rearing it's ugly head.

What I'm finding is that it seems much more common (around here at least) for people in relationships to be more clingy/needy/insecure. I'm sort of the oddball amongst the people I know. I think one of the big reasons for his lack of relationships was his living for 10 years not knowing whether or not he was going to develop a horrible fatal genetic disease. It kept him from getting close. For some reason it didn't stop him from getting serious with me, but it did cause it's fair share of problems and discomfort in our relationship. He's dated, just has had what he'd consider a serious relationship (or what I'd consider one) since the girl he dated during high school (which can't really be considered TOO much).

The "mommy" thing has gotten better, and I'm trying to acknowledge the fact it has improved and try to forget the fact that it's been a major issue for us the past year. Ya know?

Like I said, the not wanting me to leave cause he wants to hold me.......well, maybe that's just how he is, overly affectionate and super mushy (in baby talk hehe). I don't fault him for it....its just not how I am. And for us, it has gotten to the point where we're asking ourselves, can either of us ever truly be happy if one of us is not getting the physical affection and verbal affirmation that we need, or the other is having to be more affectionate when they don't want to, or give (what I consider cheesy and unncessary... ) verbal affirmations? Ya know....if we compromise can either of us ever truly be happy together and truly get what we need out of the relationship. And I know him well enough to know he won't make a move towards breaking up if that's whats necessary, (unless I was mean to him or cheated or something really bad), so the decision is left to me. I'm trying to be patient and know that in time, I'll find some clarity.

[pretzel]

Forgot about his illness.

Hindsight, can alot of the issues be attributed to him not being able to fully develop interpersonal relationship as a result of him having to concentrate so much on that?

[Ashlee T.]

I'm sure that could be part of it. I can't imagine that not holding anyone back in pretty much any area of life.

[pretzel]

I'm sure that could be part of it. I can't imagine that not holding anyone back in pretty much any area of life.

Maybe we're asking the wrong question. Is it not so much who he is now as opposed to is he becoming a person I can see myself growing with?

He's lost out on alot of experiences that most have and hasn't had the opportunity to learn and grow.

Has the things he has done and is willing to do more of enough? I know that relationships are supposed to be equal but he's been given a short stack and is only now able to play with the full deck.

[Ashlee T.]

Has the things he has done and is willing to do more of enough? I know that relationships are supposed to be equal but he's been given a short stack and is only now able to play with the full deck.

Definitely agree on the full deck thing. That's why I wanted him to get tested, so that he could actually live his life without that hanging over his head. I know he's happier now, lighter hearted, not AS negative etc.

Is it enough? That's what I struggle with. It's not that I'm seeking this perfect emaculate partner. Its just that there's alot going on in my life right now, I have a lot of goals for myself, and relationship drama takes away from that. I can't tell him I'm going to want to get married to him someday, because I don't know if I'm going to want to get married at all. I can't assure him a future, because I don't know. I'm 27.....am I required to know for sure? I think not. I can't assure him that even if I do force myself into being Miss Affectionate that it's going to last....because it's not what I'm comfortable with....no more than I can ask him to stop being affectionate. We're just at that point where we're going to have to make a decision about it, so not to cheat the other person out of what they truly want.

[pretzel]

Definitely agree on the full deck thing. That's why I wanted him to get tested, so that he could actually live his life without that hanging over his head. I know he's happier now, lighter hearted, not AS negative etc.

Is it enough? That's what I struggle with. It's not that I'm seeking this perfect emaculate partner. Its just that there's alot going on in my life right now, I have a lot of goals for myself, and relationship drama takes away from that. I can't tell him I'm going to want to get married to him someday, because I don't know if I'm going to want to get married at all. I can't assure him a future, because I don't know. I'm 27.....am I required to know for sure? I think not. I can't assure him that even if I do force myself into being Miss Affectionate that it's going to last....because it's not what I'm comfortable with....no more than I can ask him to stop being affectionate. We're just at that point where we're going to have to make a decision about it, so not to cheat the other person out of what they truly want.

I wish I could offer more to your dilema. I don't think I can add more as it seems you've gone through the litany of options.

I posted in another thread that sometimes people come into our lives for a reason. Maybe the two of you were only meant to pass through each others path for a brief moment. Maybe that purpose has been served.

Maybe it's time for me to bow out knowing that whatever decisions are made that their made with only good intentions.