[Stillness]

Rape polices women's life.

When the girls and women we love are out without us at night, when we're with them and come across a group of men, when they go to work in a male-dominated field, are away at school and just about any other time we constantly have that fear that someone will hurt them and there won't be a thing we can do to stop it. Every time we hear about someone else being victimized we're imagining it's our women. When it is our women we're wishing we could take the pain away from them into ourselves. It plagues us all.

[Little]

I must admit, I stole that idea from something I recently read about Louis CK, a comedian. In the aftermath of the Daniel Tosh rape joke debacle, he learned about that policing. He said, "That's part of me now that wasn't before."

Seeing non-survivors understand in this manner is cathartic.

[Hannah30]

If two people, a man and a woman, are both really drunk, and have sex that both of them regret the next morning, why is it that only the man is accused of rape?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I think if found that the woman has done this many a time before, he may be accused but not found guilty.

If he got her drunk? The questionables. And she said NO? And there is no history of her getting drunk with many a man and sleeping with him? Then I think it's rape.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

When the girls and women we love are out without us at night, when we're with them and come across a group of men, when they go to work in a male-dominated field, are away at school and just about any other time we constantly have that fear that someone will hurt them and there won't be a thing we can do to stop it. Every time we hear about someone else being victimized we're imagining it's our women. When it is our women we're wishing we could take the pain away from them into ourselves. It plagues us all.

This read beautifully and with so much heart.

Every Mother/Father fears. Most young girls don't. Nieve, just walking home.. Just going to work.. Just going to school..

As a Mother, a Father, they remember. And, so they "try" to protect to what extent though should you protect, you can not wrap children in cotton wool..

In India the most horrific rapes occur. One in particular I think none of us will ever forget. As, the girls are sworn to wait as the boys go from 14 - 24 before marriage. Culture plays a part as well.

Apart from rape, the old "get the virgin" occurs every day of the year, every Country. And, so she feels discusted, thought it was love, it wasn't rape but it might as well have been.

For the most part, alot not all of the youth of today just laugh, use, but want the prize... When they are ready.

Not sexist so don't get me wrong.. But our minds are emotions, love, picket fence, rfrom a young age.

Boys are sex, more, sex, more unless they find someone special but then, they question that they want to experience more, she doesn't she has found him.

It's just the difficulties with being a man or a woman.

But rape is NOT acceptable. FULL STOP.

[Stillness]

If two people, a man and a woman, are both really drunk, and have sex that both of them regret the next morning, why is it that only the man is accused of rape?

Hannah30, is this just a hypothetical question or is it based off of an actual incident? I ask because it reflects the scenario I think most minds go to to make sense of things when there's an accusation or rape and there was drinking.

Here's the other question I think we also ask: "Why would the woman claim rape if she just had drunk sex?" Part of the point of this thread is that she most likely would not. Your question is exactly the concept that rapists hope will mask their actions if they're accused.

[rcoreyus]

Being drunk confuses both consent and memory. It is dangerous for either men or women to get very drunk around people they don't trust completely - rape, unwanted pregnancy, or just doing things that they will regret are all possible.

You can't make generalizations, some of these situations are rape, some are not, and some are in an ugly grey area. Men can be raped while drunk, but it is a lot less likely and a lot less common since if they are too drunk to consent, they are usually too drunk to physically have sex (but not always).

As far as legal issues - since in the US people are innocent until proven guilty, I think that in cases of drunken sex, it should only be called rape if there is evidence of coercion.

Personally I think it is a REALLY bad idea to get very drunk at parties, just too many ways that things can end badly.

[Stillness]

I'm not buying the old "alcohol confuses" argument anymore. I used to until I read the studies and reflected on my own experience and just plain logic. It's a means for rapists to silence their victims.

If it's not, then how exactly do the logistics of that work? If someone doesn't have a memory of what happened, it's unlikely they're crying rape. Have you ever had drunk sex? Did anyone get raped or make an accusation? I've been drunk and have had sex with a partner who was also drunk many times. On a couple of occasions I was asked to stop during penetration and have had no issues complying. I've never had consent issues with me or the women I've been with at all. Of course that's anecdotal, but the studies I've seen indicate that alcohol "clouding" judgement is at best applicable to a minority of cases. In most cases, a guy is a serial rapist that uses alcohol as a weapon and a smokescreen. He's relying on people to say, "Well, she was drinking." We've mostly let the she-was-dressed-provocatively argument go. In my opinion, this should be next.

Of course, the presumption of innocence is necessary. But the alcohol is a red herring, in my opinion.

[rcoreyus]

I don't drink, partly for the reasons I listed. I agree that some men target women and intentionally get them drunk so that they can rape them. There are also situations where both parties get drunk and and with their inhibitions lowered, have sex. Regrets the next morning can lead to a false rape charge.

There there are the intermediate cases. A woman gets so drunk at a party that she is semi-conscious. If a guy has sex with her is it rape? If she is unconscious then its clearly rape. But what if she is confused and somewhat incoherent, but not unconscious? Where is the line. Also if the man is drunk his ability to determine whether the woman is too drunk for sex is diminished as well.

I have a friend who once got very drunk at a bar in Japan. He doesn't know how he got home, but he has a dim memory of riding on the back of someone's motorcycle. Neither he, or any of his friends in Japan own motorcycles. It doesn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to see someone in that state waking up in a strange bed and not really be sure whether or not they consented to sex.

Please note that I'm not making a moral judgement about drinking, just a practical one. It is risky in a wide variety of ways to get yourself so impaired that you may not have much control over your situation. If what happens involves sex, then the courts can only reasonably find guilt of rape in cases where lack of consent was clear. This leaves many cases where it really was rape, but there is no way to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Stillness]

Regrets the next morning can lead to a false rape charge.

What's your basis for saying this? Have you known a woman that admitted to it or seen studies? I know that there are all kinds out there, but I don't think this is realistic. It paints women as so mentally weak and unstable that they make false claims because they feel bad about themselves. If this happened, there would have to be more to it - like insanity or some kind of social pressure that would bring shame on the family with very traditional values or something like that. A normal person is not going to try to get someone convicted of a serious crime because they did something they regret.

A woman gets so drunk at a party that she is semi-conscious. If a guy has sex with her is it rape? If she is unconscious then its clearly rape. But what if she is confused and somewhat incoherent, but not unconscious? Where is the line. Also if the man is drunk his ability to determine whether the woman is too drunk for sex is diminished as well.

You don't drink now, or you never have? Maybe it's just me, but I've been passed out on the bathroom floor and I've never been so drunk that I don't know whether or not it's right to have sex with someone semi-conscious, punch them in the face, or rob a bank. Legality aside, someone semi-conscious can't physically consent or resist. Being drunk doesn't excuse evil.

I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong, but this sounds like distraction to me.