[effy2014]

^^ Jen, that is a great point. It's the same way I think whenever a victim's behavior (short of violence that makes the attacker fear for his/her life) becomes an issue in the domestic violence debate. Yes, one should never poke a stick at a bear, but it never justifies a disproportionate response.

As for Calibri, I might have defended some of his behaviors had he been willing to compromise or if he was (is) willing to go into therapy and resolve issues. However, it is very difficult to defend a position where you know that you are causing your SO pain and unhappiness but feel so certain in the "correctness" of your actions that she has to be to blame.

[atskitty2]

atskitty - I appreciate your advice. In your place I would be saying teh same thing. It is somehow different when it is you that is the one doing the decision making etc...perhaps I aught not to still be discussing things here - I don't want to be frustrating people that I am failing to take action or responsibility for my own life...

You're not frustrating me, or anyone else, I don't think. I've had to make decisions under difficult circumstances, so I'm not speaking without experience under my belt. You aren't facing some uncharted ground, and there is support for the difficult times. We're all here & I'm sure you have personal support around you in real life. That's why I can say honestly, happiness is the only goal we really have. It has nothing to do w/who's right or wrong, it's about YOU being happy. Healthy equals happy to me. (mentally, peacefully speaking)

You have mentioned your own mental health status, and I remember it, but that notwithstanding, the bottom line remains the same, ya gotta be happy. If you know you're the problem, then deal with yourself accordingly & dive back into counseling. Maybe you just need to be alone for awhile, because this isn't helping. If you need to, focus on yourself, & not intermingle the outside issues of a SO. Because if your issues are the issues, they'll always be there. I love that saying, "wherever you go, there you are".

That's why I say, it is only as complicated as we make it. I mean no criticism or lack of compassion here, and I don't mean to oversimplify, but I think a few years down the road you may look back, as I did, & realize how simple the answers really were, after all was said & done.

So, I don't know if it's right to leave or stay, but the common theme is that you're unhappy in the relationship. Whether he's to blame or yourself, seems immaterial to me. I never encourage anyone to stay in unhappy relationships. Do something to make it better or get out of it. There just aren't many other options. I'm a testimony to the happy times alone over the trying times in a relationship.

[effy2014]

We have all been frozen in relationships. I was in therapy for 18 months before I was ready to leave my marriage even though it was obvious to everyone that it wasn't working,

You have to make the tough decision and we are just trying to be supportive and add our perspective. Take the time you need but please keep the posting so long as it is therapeutic for you.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I stayed in an emotionally abuse marriage for 7 years because I believed in marriage and hoped that with time, he would see that not all women are the same.

It's not until you have lost "all" feelings for a person do you start to look at yourself and wonder what the heck you are doing.

I think most of us can relate to timing so don't stress it.

[ChristinaHedge]

The main thing I don't get about any quasi-sympathetic-to-the-guy type responses on here (and I'm not pointing the finger at anybody in particular) is the 'don't negotiate with terrorists' rule. If we were talking about him just underperforming as a partner or even possibly cheating or things of that nature, that would be one thing. Those issues could possibly be worked around. But this guy has shown distinct abuser/controller traits, and the fact is that those types of people are dangerous and essentially a grave risk to have around you intimately. They can potentially ruin your life. They can potentially even do worse.

If I discovered tomorrow that my BF had murdered his last GF, I wouldn't say "well we'll see if we can work it out." He'd be out of the picture the moment I found out, no negotiations, no questions asked, no "call me laters." Because you don't negotiate with terrorists. And believe it or not, abusers/controllers are closer to the murderer side of the spectrum than the decent guy spectrum, both in terms of general risk assessment and clinically. They usually possess various psychopathic traits, much like murderers and other violent criminals. They are many examples where they've actually become murderers by eventually murdering their partners.

So in that light, it's plainly baffling to me that anyone would say "look at both sides" or "maybe you can fix him." No. You can maybe fix a guy who doesn't understand that he shouldn't go to the bar 7 nights a week. You shouldn't even entertain the notion of playing ball with a psychopath, and anybody who's maybe just wading in the shallow end of the psychopath pool is still too psychotic to have anything to do with.

Well said. I agree entirely.
I think that wanting someone to change is certainly understandable. Saying that you wish their firm "No" was a yes is understandable. Hoping that tricked, playing them, being extra nice to them, threatening them or anything else will change that is a fantasy, in my view. Does not make it any nicer regardless.

[Farmer by trade]

If love and relationships were only that easy. I believe that love is a choice and not just a feeling. How we talk, react and treat our SO has so much influence on how they act / react. We can choose to fight for equality on every level but still loose. Marriage and relationships take compromise, intimacy, respect, trust and much more. There is always much more going on than the little snippets of information that is shared. When we are in a relationship that is strained we need to ask if we are doing everything we can to make it better and sometimes one person has to give more ( for a time) than the other. I would not be so quick to throw the relationship into the dumpster. I think part of the issue is lack of intimacy and sex. I don't condone the controlling aspects of the relationship but I sense that there was a deep love between you and SO. If I was in a sexless relationship (<10 x / yr) I would find it very frustrating and would find it hard to be close to my wife. There are hormones that affect how we act and feel when we make love on a regular basis. You state in another thread that you only have sex every 2-3 months. I don't know if your SO has no interest or if you don't but there are many marriage experts that claim that sex is the glue that holds it together. Is there a reason that sex is infrequent?

[Farmer by trade]

Sorry to read about your struggles with you SO. If only relationships and marriage were easy. However, there is more to relationships than equality. There is compromise, intimacy, trust, friendship, history together and much more. There are times when one partner has to give more than the other (for a time) for the sake of the relationship. From what I read I can tell that you have a deep love for your SO or you would have been gone already. I also realize that in a forum like this we only have snippets of information compared to your 10 years and it is much more complicated for you than for an outsider with incomplete information. I believe that love is a choice and not just a feeling. We make choices in how we act or react verbally and non-verbally to our partners and what we say and do will affect their moods and actions. At this point I will say that one should have to cower in fear of their partner. I am by no means condoning his controlling behavior. I presume that the "loving" demeanor gradually disappeared over the 10 years. It sounds like there is a lack of intimacy in your relationship as well. You state in another post that you have sex every 2-3 monhs. Many marriage experts say that sex is the glue that bind us together and that when we make love there are hormones / chemicals released in our bodies that affect our moods and attitudes towards our partner. Are the reasons for the lack of Sex? Is he not interested? I know that I would be frustrated and probably somewhat bitter. I don't know why it is not happening but my view is that a marriage or long-term relationship without making love would not be acceptable to me. Not saying this would solve all your problems because it won't but it could bring you back to where the two of you act like people who are in love again. I would challenge you to make love with your SO 3-4 a week for the next month and then come back to us and tell us how your relationship has changed.

[Farmer by trade]

I thought the first version was lost and re-wrote it as best I could. Sorry for the duplication. Please accept my apologies.

[calibri~]

Thanks for your input farmer. I suspect you are right. I'm on hormonal contraception that means I only have about one week a month where I'm not bleeding, and that week I have migraines and acne. Both SO and I are afraid to initiate intimacy aa we fear rejection. SO is too tired to make love most days anyway.I am no longer confident enough to initiate anything anyway but it's really quite difficult to feel in the mood with someone who speaks to me with no respect, and criticises my everything. Not to mention all the things I said about the thread concerning turn-offs.

Guys, I feel like a total peice of dog turd today. SO wanted to go our for dinner and I didn't feel like it, then he starts yelling at me how unfair it is that I will go out for meals with my family with no fuss but won't do it for him. I don't have an explanation. I find it very stressful with my eating history and dietary requirements. I've obviously inadvertently really upset him, and so in return he thought he'd do the same. I already felt pretty depressed today and that has just pushed me over into thoughts of selfdestruct. Even though I'm hungry, a part of me doesn't want to eat. Recently a recurring theme has been suffering. My SO thinks I aim to make him suffer. Be it doing the grocery shop alone, or his claims that I socially isolate him.

[Farmer by trade]

I can see that you both are hurting and actually want the same thing but are struggling to find ways to do it. By getting upset when you didn't want to go out for dinner with him he is really saying I love you and want to spend time with you. He wants to improve the relationship in ways he knows how. if he didn't care and didn't want thing to improve he would be completely indifferent and lacking emotion but that is not the case. I understand how anxieties work as my wife struggles with them as well. He does have a legitimate complaint if you are willing to go out for dinner with your family but not him. The same dietary restrictions would apply in both scenarios. Maybe the answer is to plan ahead of time so you are mentally prepared for an activity. This may reduce the arguing and stop things from spiraling down hill. It is important to have date nights to allow us to reconnect with our partner.

Now for your first paragraph. Why are you using a hormone birth control when it prevents you from having any real possibility of making love to SO. My guess is your lives would be much better if he had to use a condom instead of the current hormone product. There are alternatives and maybe talking to your Doctor for another option would be helpful. I'm a firm believer that everything would improve if you improved your sex life with him. I know that my state of mind is very different when we are active. I understand that if you are feeling like crap it makes it hard to get in the mood for love making. That is why it is important that you find a way to improve how you feel. If that means getting off the hormones that are making you feel terrible then discuss it with SO with the idea of improving how you feel and your sex life. It is important that your SO is part of the discussion and decision. If you tell him that the hormones are making you miserable and that you want to improve your sex life I am sure he would be willing to discuss it. I also find when we struggle and are arguing too much that planning when we will have sex ahead of time really eliminates the rejection issue. I don't think he is too tired I think he is emotionally drained from the difficulties between you and him and it becomes a defense mechanism. If you really want to improve your relationship there are some really good bloggers out there discussing relationships and one of them is Sheila Wray Gregory. (Google her blog) She takes it from a Christian perspective which you can take or leave but much of what she says just makes sense from a relationship perspective. How important is this relationship to you? Are you willing to make some changes for a improvement in most areas of your life..