[atskitty2]

That's what I have told her effy. She's limited so many options with so few acceptable characteristics. And I do think she's relaxed a bit, maybe due to my less rigid "rules" making her feel it's ok to not be quite so particular. Dating is supposed to be somewhat fun too, and I remind her of that! That there doesn't have to be commitment on the first date.

Anyway, I have another first date tonight. Not terribly excited about this guy, but we'll see what happens.

[Magnetism]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but this topic does bring me back on "trying to force chemistry." What if people do broaden their criteria, but still don't feel right with the people that they're getting to know? There's a fine line between what's "unrealistic" and what's considered "reasonably high."

I've been told that I'm too picky before and that I'm restricting myself, but the fact that someone showed up in my life that meets my criteria proves that I'm not being unreasonable. The man I'm getting to know is educated/professional, around my age, kind, romantic, family-oriented, tall, thin, well-mannered, and a good conversationalist. He does have some flaws (who doesn't), but I can manage those flaws. If he's not the one (fingers crossed), I'm sure that he's not going to be the last man on earth with similar characteristics.

I don't know atskitty's friend unique situation, and I'm just projecting my own experience. If she's only had 2 dates in 10-12 years, my first feeling is, "This isn't working for you so far." Who knows, maybe someone will show up with the traits that she wants.

[effy2014]

Mags, my sense is that you and Kitty's friend are at different stages of life. You are dating for marriage . . . trying to find the one. You don't want to waste your time to "force" a connection if there isn't one instantaneously.

Speaking for me only, in my 40s and 50s, "the one" is not so important. I was looking for good connections that would make me happy and was armed with an entirely different list of criteria honed by failure. I discovered that the nit picky stuff did not make a successful relationship and that I needed to focus on very substantive criteria.

With Kitty's friend, the question I would ask is "why do you believe that all of your focus on the smallest of qualities will make you happy?" My experience in failed and dysfunctional relationships lead me to the conclusion that focusing on the wrong criteria can be disastrous and that substance is far more important than form.

[atskitty2]

Mags, it's true. We're at very different phases of dating, with very different expectations. With all the discussions I've had with my friend, I still haven't discerned what it is she really wants out of life, from herself or from any potential relationship. She makes me very sad on occasion. But, I'll not go into that, and try to get back to the topic at hand.

I have very high standards, but I don't think they are at all unrealistic. I think my friend's "ideal" is misguided & off-target, non-priority.
My "criteria" for someone is first character issues, integrity & effort he would potentially contribute and how that would pair with mine. Hers are whether he can press a seam and hold a fork properly. It's a different type of "standard" we're talking about. Hers are ignoring the factors, in my opinion, that determine what kind of partner he will be. She never makes mention of anything more than these silly (to me) things that she just can't stand.

The man that I met tonight, was a good guy. We will meet again most likely, but I felt an intellectual incompatibility that wouldn't romantically satisfy me. He enjoys tennis & some things that I do, and we agreed it would be good to do some things together. So, we agreed on that, and a friendship may or may not build from here. He's attractive & has some great qualities, but I really don't see him as a long-term match for me, but a friend, yes. I think I scared him, intimidated him but by the end we were chatting like old schoolmates.
We're not trying to force anything, we can be friends, and we were both accepting of that next step in a relationship, whether friendship or otherwise. No pressure for a romantic thing, just getting to know each other better & enjoying some activities together.

[raindancer]

It's great your date went well. But you're already friend zoning him. If he's on a dating site, I would think he isn't there to make only friends, but to look for a mate. Careful not to let him think it could be more than just making friends, if that's all you want from him. I'd make it clear to him there was no spark.

[effy2014]

Some of the best romantic relationships start with a great friendship. I am sure that Kitty was honest with him; however, as a man, I would prefer the friendship route to prove I could make a great date then be kicked to the curb.

High intellect used to be one of my top criteria but not even close anymore. A nice side benefit, but not my personal path to happiness. However, I think it is a more important criteria for women.

[atskitty2]

We were honest with each other in our expectations discussion. We are accepting the next step between us is one based on friendship. Yes, of course we are both looking for a mate, but share the philosophy that a dating relationship can occur after friendship is established. His context to me was one that he cannot date someone he isn't comfortable around, doesn't know very well & believes, as I do, that connection & relationships build over time. Basically rain, every date I go on is friend-zoned from the beginning. I am not a woman who'd meet someone & be ready to have a relationship right away. I need to know them better than that. Anyway, I don't rush in to things, and he seems to be the same way on that count. He has a daughter, and he's back in school working toward a degree, so I admire his priority & responsibility & respect that dating has it's proper place in his life.

effy, it wasn't even an issue of high intellect. And, he was much more nervous than me, so it could've been the fumbling thing, but it was an issue of not being my equal, intellectually. I had to explain what I meant by, to me, some fairly basic statements with usual words-no big vocabulary. He could have also been trying to show interest & make sure he understood exactly what I meant, but my gut told me there was just a comprehension issue. I got a few blank looks, dropped bottom lips, after what I think, were fairly simple concepts really. I had to do a lot of clarifying. Maybe I wasn't articulate, or clear in my communication too. Or maybe I am the ditzy blonde, and he thinks I'm a babbling idiot!

Either way, he has a lot of good qualities that make him worth exploring & getting to know better. The intellect isn't a deal-breaker, but something I'd prefer, and I'd not perceived in our communications prior to meeting, so I believe it could be nerves or different styles of communication.

[Magnetism]

Mags, my sense is that you and Kitty's friend are at different stages of life. You are dating for marriage . . . trying to find the one. You don't want to waste your time to "force" a connection if there isn't one instantaneously.

Speaking for me only, in my 40s and 50s, "the one" is not so important. I was looking for good connections that would make me happy and was armed with an entirely different list of criteria honed by failure. I discovered that the nit picky stuff did not make a successful relationship and that I needed to focus on very substantive criteria.

With Kitty's friend, the question I would ask is "why do you believe that all of your focus on the smallest of qualities will make you happy?" My experience in failed and dysfunctional relationships lead me to the conclusion that focusing on the wrong criteria can be disastrous and that substance is far more important than form.

Ah, thanks for the eye-opener. I know I'm guilty of projecting my own biases. I'm not in other people's shoes, but I can see that little things may be irrelevant to just wanting a companion.