[Ashlee T.]

As someone who has played sports with the opposite gender as well as serving in combat, its so easy to just see a person as a person when they are your team mate, coach or in more severe circumstances, saving your life.

Perfect example! People are just people, no matter what boxes we try to squeeze them into based on historical practices, tradition, religion, etc.

[Popcorn&Candy]

I don't really consider whether a person is an image of God. It IS a valid comment and belief, but I think gender identity should be about a person's feelings about their looks, sexuality, anything else without thinking about God. [I do not mean that nastily.]

I think a person should be proud of themselves and their sexuality, regardless of any labels. No one can be put into a neat little box. Obviously, people are all different and are all great.

I do want people to accept themselves as they are and value themselves without having to explain themselves to other people. Of course, this is not an ideal world, so that won't happen, but in a dream world it would. And I think we should make our dream world reality.

[Ashlee T.]

I don't really consider whether a person is an image of God. It IS a valid comment and belief, but I think gender identity should be about a person's feelings about their looks, sexuality, anything else without thinking about God. [I do not mean that nastily.]

I think a person should be proud of themselves and their sexuality, regardless of any labels. No one can be put into a neat little box. Obviously, people are all different and are all great.

I do want people to accept themselves as they are and value themselves without having to explain themselves to other people. Of course, this is not an ideal world, so that won't happen, but in a dream world it would. And I think we should make our dream world reality.

Wouldn't that be amazing! If we could all see each other as MrMr described during combat, as people, as family, etc.

[Stillness]

I don't see the connection between intersex conditions and transgender people. The former are developmental disorders, right? Typically they're going to have some kind of dysfunction or be more prone to disease. How would dysfunction tell you that normal biological sex lies on a spectrum?

All of us are here because of male-female coupling. Where is the spectrum? Can a 75% man make a baby with a 67% woman? There’s no such thing. It’s not like height, where tall, short, and everything in between is normal. It’s just male, female – at least as far as normal sexual function goes.

What I could see is maybe some transgender people are also suffering from a developmental disorder. I think I've heard of that being a possibility. That's believable and if so would make an even stronger case for them being deserving of understanding and compassion. They’re just not deserving of having everyone else warp reality because their mind doesn’t match their body, though. Some people may be willing to say a big, hairy dude is a woman because he feels he is. But, I’d no more do that than I’d tell an anorexic she’s fat because her mind doesn’t match her body.

[jns]

I don't see the connection between intersex conditions and transgender people. The former are developmental disorders, right? Typically they're going to have some kind of dysfunction or be more prone to disease. How would dysfunction tell you that normal biological sex lies on a spectrum?

All of us are here because of male-female coupling. Where is the spectrum? Can a 75% man make a baby with a 67% woman? There’s no such thing. It’s not like height, where tall, short, and everything in between is normal. It’s just male, female – at least as far as normal sexual function goes.

What I could see is maybe some transgender people are also suffering from a developmental disorder. I think I've heard of that being a possibility. That's believable and if so would make an even stronger case for them being deserving of understanding and compassion. They’re just not deserving of having everyone else warp reality because their mind doesn’t match their body, though. Some people may be willing to say a big, hairy dude is a woman because he feels he is. But, I’d no more do that than I’d tell an anorexic she’s fat because her mind doesn’t match her body.

These seem like solid arguments to me. I am interested in what the debaters with a different point of view will say.

[JonnyR]

Look -- if we are going to go endlessly back and forth because our minds will simply never be changed, we should pretty much shelve any additional discussion and let it be.

Here is what I will say -- to answer Stillness, YES! You actually can have a "partial" male and a "partial" female couple create life!!

Did you not read the article? Did you not read the supporting article about a MAN (who BTW thought he was 100% MAN), have ovaries? This was a man with FOUR children! Wait..if he has ovaries, what % would you assign to him as a male/female?

Is he still 100% male because he presented as such for his entire life, AND had children? Or because he has ovaries, would you say he was 50% male and 50% female?

Science is already backing that there is a spectrum, it would be introspective and loving of all of us to do the same -- the evidence is staring us right in the face.

[Ashlee T.]

JonnyR is right on. Thank you for reading this article and making the effort to understand. It is not a black and white issue. The writer of this article dug deep to share her own personal story with us, her own journey of learning, understanding, and acceptance.

Once upon a time, we would've been having this same discourse on gay people.......before that, even interracial dating. It sounds absurd now that we would ever need to debate or defend that, and to those of us who have already opened our minds, debating and defending this is equally absurd. Additionally, I must say this:

"That's believable and if so would make an even stronger case for them being deserving of understanding and compassion" - EVERYONE is deserving of understanding and compassion, perceived case or no case. Whether they fit into your box or not. Whether they accommodate your religious (or lack of) beliefs or not. Whether they look like you, think like you, believe like you, or not. Whether you can relate, or not.

We aren't here to try to "sell you" or debate with you on gender identity. There is nothing to debate. We are giving you credible and factual information to open your mind, to learn, to grow, to be empowered. Whether you do or do not will be your choice.

[Stillness]

There was just a ruling overturned on the case of Caster Semenya this week. So it is literally a matter of international debate. We're all learning.

But I wasn't trying to debate. Just discuss. It seems like some feathers are getting ruffled. That wasn't my goal, so I'll bow out. I wish you all the best.

[atskitty2]

Are we talking about physical, biological anomalies-someone born with sexual organs of both sexes, or are we talking about gender identity?

They are not the same thing, necessarily.
*eta-I guess I should say, "gender identity" as is the socially, politically charged topic that is so prominent in the US culture currently.

Some clarity on what we're discussing would be beneficial here.

[Ashlee T.]

Are we talking about physical, biological anomalies-someone born with sexual organs of both sexes, or are we talking about gender identity?

They are not the same thing, necessarily.
****eta-I guess I should say, "gender identity" as is the socially, politically charged topic that is so prominent in the US culture currently.

Some clarity on what we're discussing would be beneficial here.

The intent of the post is in the original post. It was never intended as a debate on whether these real people and their real experiences are valid or not.

As the original post asks, I am truly interested in hearing from folks who have experienced part or all of the contents of the article in some way:

"Do you feel that your gender identity, or the way you express it, falls outside of the “norm”? Maybe you have a friend or family member you're concerned about?

Have you – or a loved one – ever felt pressured to look or act a certain way because of your gender identity? Perhaps someone close to you is transitioning?"