[hotdogg]

i agree! well said.

[hotdogg]

that was i agree with femaleprodigy

[Guest]

I agreed with AFemaleProdigy until she said sex was just sex.

More like comparing sex to a handshake.

[AFemaleProdigy]

that's an interesting remark, given that porn & masturbation to porn are, by definition, entirely self-centered activities.

it's a lot like all these starving people are shoveling handfulls of toxic waste into their mouths - and you are arguing that hunger is a natural urge, marveling that people would actually be concerned when people simply take steps to satisfy their hunger.

i don't think anyone would disagree with you that sexual desires are natural. it's the idea that porn is somehow an adequate substitute for sex that i find incredulous.

and, ironically, probably the most unselfish concern a wife can experience on behalf of her husband.

So you think that porn is a selfish act? In my eyes, I see it as a natural part of life similar to eating (since we are using food for analogies). Granted, you do not need it to live or get by, but your body and the chemicals in your brain (for men) still tells you every day that you need to do it and it will make you feel like garbage if you don't. It's not like a drug addiction that you brought on yourself. This is a normal part of your chemistry that you are born with. Forcing a man to try to ignore those feelings goes against their very nature. It is something that helps promote good mental and physical health. I guess I just don't see how something so natural and really part of the way we were created is selfish.

I just love how you compare watching pornography with eating toxic waste. People who shun porn are those very people who treat sex as if it were some terrible crime or secret that should never be publicized. Like sex should always occur behind doors and you NEVER tell anyone about it. Seriously, why is reproduction such a big scary secret? We are raised to not talk about vaginas and penises or anything else related and treated as if those were bad words. Never show too much skin. I say "why not?" Why should we be ashamed of who we are, what we were born with, who sees it, and how we use it for sex (which is what we were made to do)? What is wrong with admiring the sexual appeal of other people? Even when you are in a relationship, if you say that you never size people up in rank of their sexual appeal, you are just lying to yourself. Everyone does it, unless they have completely lost their sex drive. If you are saying "NO I DON'T"... well... then that is just not natural and not the way the average human brain works.

Also, it's not that pornography and masterbation is an "adequate substitute for sex" by any means. I am sure every man would tell you he would much rather be having sex with his woman then having to masterbate. Of course, there are times when a man will want to just pleasure himself in private just like women need private time for themselves. In reality, life doesn't always allow for the man to have sex with his woman whenever the urge comes along. Maybe their schedules prevent it, maybe she doesn't feel like it, maybe they had an argument and she won't do it, or like someone else mentioned... maybe he is on a business trip. What does it matter as long as he is not being deceatful about it?

I could see being concerned if the man was no longer trying to have sex with his woman and prefered porn over her. That would be a good cause for concern, but if he still has a healthy desire for his woman, then I would say there is nothing wrong there.

My husband is free to watch porn when he wants to. I will even watch it with him and some times by myself. I can honestly tell you, I never think... "oh they are hot... wow... it's like cheating on my husband". Or "I wish I had them instead of my husband". Or anything even remotely like that. Like I said, life is too short to live under all these prehistoric beliefs about being this way and that with your partner.

To "Ravsoma": Some times sex IS just sex and an orgasm is just an orgasm. Depending on your state of mind and the situation, it can be as basic as a hand shake. If you are alone in your room, feeling "frisky", you masterbate, and have an orgasm... does that count for some all mighty important and spiritual event? No. It was just a moment where you released some sexual tension. Nothing more. It doesn't change the way you percieve the world or your relationship with someone else.

I think part of the problem is that women are so much more emotional and they tend to attach sooooo much emotion to EVERYTHING. You have to remember that men do NOT think the same way we do. You can't MAKE them think the way you do either. They just don't attach all those excessive emotions to sex like we do. That doesn't make them wrong, just different in the way they were made to feel about sex.

Now, I am not saying that ALL sex is equal to a handshake and I am also not saying you should spread it around like a handshake. I do not believe in cheating or sleeping around. Sex with a partner DOES have meaning to it when it is with someone you care for. But when it comes to masterbation with an image(pornography) of someone you don't know, will never meet, and don't attach feelings to it other then sexual urges, then yes... it is just an orgasm you are reaching for and nothing more. It is not like the person masterbating to porn is trying to establish a relationship with that particular image or person in the image.

Have you watched much porn? I have noticed that the majority of porn geared towards men is predominantly close ups of the genital areas and focuses mainly on close ups of the actual penetration. I believe it is the penetration and skin to skin images that they like so much. Not the particular woman that is in it. I honestly believe it is the act that turns men on, not so much who is actually in it. That would prove that it is merely a primal urge rather then something more emotional and concerning. Men do not care about the story line or any of that stuff. They just want to see the raw sex.

For women, it is different. Most women who watch porn are particular about the story line and whether or not the people in it are attractive. Women apply emotion to it. They watch it more like it is an actual movie to be studied.

This is why we have the term "chic flicks". The way men and women perceive movies and images is very different. Men are attracted to raw actions and women are attracted to emotional situations that can be applied to life situations.

You might think I am rambling here, but to study the differences between the way men and women view things will bring a lot of enlightenment to everyone. Especially about why we have such drastic differences in opinions pertaining to what is ok and what isn't.

[A Normal Guy]

I masturbate so that I don't get so overwhelmed by my hormones that I do something illegal.


to afemaleprodigy: After sorting through hundreds of ignorant, catty, materialistic, goldigger, ****s I hope to marry someone like you.

[Guest]

I just love how you compare watching pornography with eating toxic waste. People who shun porn are those very people who treat sex as if it were some terrible crime or secret that should never be publicized. Like sex should always occur behind doors and you NEVER tell anyone about it. Seriously, why is reproduction such a big scary secret?

you're taking some huuuuuge leaps here.

you're equating my shunning of porn to my belief that sex should be secret or hidden?

never said anything like that. i shun porn because i do believe it to be toxic. toxic to the viewer, toxic to the performer.

i have never, however, treated sex like it's a crime or that it should be hidden. i love sex. i have as much sex with my wife as i can. but i loathe porn.

please keep that distinction in mind.

so many parts of your posts i want to comment on...

i'm seeing some themes. so rather than pull every statement out & give you a counter. let me just stick with the main ideas - OK?

you've mentioned biology & natural tendencies, for example. let me address that issue.

"First of all, as women, we can't begin to understand how men feel about sex throughout every day."

i understand your point, but this is simply not true. understanding how the other person feels about a lot of things is what takes a lifetime of healthy communication & work. it is exactly why porn is such a toxic substitute. it prevents that communication.

"i'm horny & i don't like the way you do it, or you're not around, or i just feel tired & don't want to work at this tonight...

so i'll dial into some porn & have an effortless, disconnected orgasm."

cheap. easy. allows us to bypass the process - the process that is vital to establishing the exact thing you said women can't begin to get: understanding. we can understand each other. but not if every time we have an urge or see a roadblock we detour the work necessary to get there. porn is the detour.

"Men are biologically programmed to spread their "seed" as much as possible and with multiple women in order to ensure survival of our species, just like every other organism. People don't want to admit that or even think about it. They want to live in this civilized fantasy world about how biology works. They don't want to think that we could be as simplistic sexually as "animals". I hate to break it to you, but we are and there is no changing that."

this is arguable - but let's go ahead & agree on it. men are programmed to "spread their seed." i understand that science - have been exposed to it many times.

what kills me is your last statement. if you're arguing that we are enslaved to the biological codes that drive our urges without hope of altering them - then we're doomed. i am programmed to burn sugar as fuel so my body can store fat for survival when i'm starving. probably an innate mechanism that dates back to the primates.

but science has shown that - through decisions & discipline - i can stay away from carbs & put my body into ketosis, where it will burn fat instead - even though i'm wired to do the opposite.

i'm also programmed to be self absorbed. as a baby, i cried until i got whatever i wanted. didn't care if it meant inconvenience or pain for the caregiver. i was hungry - i demanded food. i was lonely - i demanded attention.

all natural urges, mind you. and yet, now, i don't treat my wife that way.

now how is it i can alter those natural, biological urges, but somehow would be helpless to say "no" to my sexual urges?

remember - i'm not arguing whether or not they're natural. i'm just arguing that you can, in fact, change them. i'm also arguing that you should change them.

i mean, really, your appeal to the strength of the male sex drive is only a sentence away from justifying rape. if i have an urge & there's a girl next door - i can't help it. i have needs. so i have to have sex with her?

of course not. the same switches that control that behavior can control my compulsion to masturbate with porn.

along these same lines...

"On top of that, but sexual appetite that is not released will translate into frustration and irritation for men. They cannot help it. It is the way they were made. The chemicals in their bodies really will make them miserable if they do not have orgasms."

just not true. what you're describing is not natural sexual desire - you're describing immaturity & poor character. "i didn't get my way, so i'm irritable."

to the contrary. men do have the ability to put their big-boy underpants on & control how they act & how they treat people. you're selling men waaaay too short with statements like this. and this one...

"They can't help it and I think that the men who manage to not physically cheat, are doing a pretty **** good job... even if they do watch porn every day."

really. where did you ever get the idea that men were so incapable? it sounds like you're describing cows.

"You know, if I had daily nonstop urges to have sex, I was only allowed to get off with my hand and no visual/audio stimulation, and my partner wasn't helping me out... I would get really frustrated."

life is full of frustrations. if our only means of dealing with frustration is to indulge our desires, then we, and especially those around us, are in for a lifetime of misery. this is perhaps the most selfish perspective i've ever encountered.

"Forcing a man to try to ignore those feelings goes against their very nature."

there are lots of things that go against our nature that we should force ourselves to ignore & fight against.

it's natural for me to want revenge. to want to hit & punnish people who offend me. it's natural for me to want what i can't afford.

there's absolutely nothing wrong with going against our nature. in fact, it's vital to living peacefully in a civilized society.

"I am sure every man would tell you he would much rather be having sex with his woman then having to masterbate."

you might be astounded to learn of the numbers of men who feel exactly the opposite. men who have become so addicted to porn - to the allure of such an anonymous, easy & accessible world of every fantasy, with no boundaries - that they would rather use porn that be intimate with a woman.

you might be equally surprised to learn of the numbers of guys who use porn so much, that they can't be intimate with a woman. it's such a different type of arousal, and often times real women just don't respond the way girls do in porn. it's an increasing problem. young guys who lose their erections & can't figure out why. it's often due to this - the real interaction just doesn't measure up to the night-after-night hours long fantasy sex with porn.

in fact, you touch on this point inadvertantly with this statement:

"Men do not care about the story line or any of that stuff. They just want to see the raw sex."

i know what you mean, but to borrow some allegorical direction from your words...

it is the "story line" that creates meaning & value in the relationship. it is this skipping of the story line that tends to create unrealistic expectations for sex partners & spouses.

porn is sex without intimacy. sex without commitment. sex without communication. & most devastatingly - sex without concern for anyone other than yourself.

toxic to a relationship.

"Life is too short to miss out on sexual pleasure."

life is too short to miss out on the pleasure of honoring your wife, of taking pleasure in her and her alone, of living a life of commitment. it's too short not to expect more of yourself.

demand that you be the best you can be - and bypass the shortcuts. take the long way, if it's the right way. do it right. even though it's harder.

a life spent pusuing selfish desires & satisfying primal urges without thought to anyone else will, in the end, be...

worthless.

[Guest]

I masturbate so that I don't get so overwhelmed by my hormones that I do something illegal.

alright. don't want to be judgemental, but i think if you have to masturbate to avoid doing something illegal your problems are significant. and keep in mind, i'm talking about porn, not masturbation.

you said,

"men need porn in order to intensify masturbation."

two things:

first - no they don't. they want it, don't need it.

second, this is like saying that, "men need cocaine to intensify sex."

it does intensify it. but that is not a good justification for it.

[A Normal Guy]

Yes they do I am a guy and I need porn to intensify masturbation other wise it would be dull and I would have nothing to think about. Masturbation without porn is like smoking weed without techno and Mitch Hedberg. Why would you need any justification for it? If it makes it any better why not do it? Tell me this do you think masturbation (porn or not) is wrong?

[Guest]

Yes they do I am a guy and I need porn to intensify masturbation other wise it would be dull and I would have nothing to think about.

Well, if you're saying you'd have nothing to think about while masturbating then your brain must not be functioning properly. Your brain never stops working, so you never stop thinking. It's not that hard to come up with an image.

[A Normal Guy]

Porn makes masturbation better period. When I am spanking the monkey and have porn I can concentrate on the nakedness and my orgasm is more intense. When I am choking the chicken sitting on the toilet it feels like, well, masturbation, plain old masturbation, I think about myself and my penis, thats it and then start feeling loserish even though it is perfectly natural.