[hopefulwoman2]

Hi, hope you don't mind me crashing your party, totally new here
Didn't feel comfortable posting this on my regular message board where I know many people in real life (yes, that speaks volumes).
Anyway, been with boyfriend for 5 yrs, I'm 49, he's 50. My son is 30, his children are 13 and 10.
After 2 yrs of dating, I moved into his house, moved out a year later bc it just wasn't working for me (he is too messy, has kids every single weekend, they are nice kids and they are even polite and a joy to be around, but as weekends are my only time off, it just got to be too much work for me), so even though I moved out, we agreed to keep our relationship going.
I've been mulling over the idea of buying a boat, so the other day, he takes out his Iphone to show me a photo of a boat for sale, and I noticed on his camera roll just before the photo of the boat what appeared to photos of a woman...didn't have my glasses on, so it wasn't real clear, and of course, he only had the camera roll opened for a moment before enlarging the photos of the boat.
In any case, my stomach felt real funny about it.
So, I looked on his phone (yes, I really did snoop) and there were three photos of a woman taken at the beach (he had recently been at the beach with his children).
It's obvious from the photos that the woman did not know her photo was being taken.
At first, I thought the photos were of his ex wife (it's not unreasonable to think that she would have joined them at the beach later in the day, they often still do things as a family, I'm cool with it, it works for them and the kids). She is considerably younger than him.
Then I put my glasses on and realized that this probably wasn't his ex wife, she looked to be too young, and not quite the same features (but the photos were taken from a distance with some distortion).
The woman was quite beautiful in a bikini, model material from what I saw.
When I questioned him, I phrased it 'are those photos of your 'Sally'? He said no, I said, well who is it? And he said it was just a random photo.
I was like...you took a random photo of some woman you don't know and who didn't know she was having her photo taken???
Of course, he got defensive, but I gotta tell you...I felt like the foundation under my feet had just crumbled...have you ever had that feeling? Like omgosh, there is nothing here and there is no turning back?
I basically told him I thought it was super creepy and I was not cool with it, so that he should just go home and give me some time to think...he did go away but came back later and I was more firm and told him that if wanted to talk about this creepy behavior, I would be fine, but if he didn't think there was anything wrong with it, he should go and I would call him when I was ready to deal with him.
I told him he was sick and needed help.
Yes, there have been issues in the past with porn/trolling online, even on FB for women, and often in the past inappropriate relationships/conversations etc with other women, but we had worked through all that, and I felt the past year has been good and he was being what I consider faithful, both in action and deed.
So....creepy? Not creepy?
Like...don't people get arrested for that?
She wasn't underage, maybe 30's?
But I was just floored.
Any help/advice no matter how blunt truly appreciated....thanks.

[Stillness]

Not creepy, at least from your description. Something is creepy if it causes fear or unease because it indicates the person may do harm. People have been looking at, painting and sculpting the likeness of, and taking pictures of other people as long as there have been people. It's not creepy - at least not necessarily. We're interesting to look at. It's not like he was invading her privacy - like outside her home looking through the window fogging up the glass. She was at a public beach. He didn't even try to hide it, it seems. If you found a wall in his house covered with her pictures with himself shopped into them, that would be creepy.

What I'd like to know is why you think it's creepy. Is there soemthing about the picture or him that makes it so? You mention she was attractive. Why does that matter? Does it make you jealous.

[hopefulwoman2]

Thanks...you've given me something to think about...maybe I'm creeped out for no reason? I'm not sure yet. Still need time to think about it.
But personally, it does seem like an invasion of privacy to me because she obviously didn't give him permission to take her photo, and it's obvious by the photo that she was completely unaware of her photo being taken. It was not like he snapped a photo of the beach in general and she was in the photo...the photo was taken deliberately to capture her image. And, because of what she was doing in the photo, it's not like she was just lying there, I don't know how to explain this, my gut tells me he was probably watching her for quite a while and was choosing when exactly to snap a photo.
I wouldn't consider myself jealous of her attractiveness, just noted it. I'm glad you brought that up though...cause it made me think...what if he took a photo of a woman who was not model material---would I still be creeped out? And the answer to that is yes. If I thought like I do about this...that he was very deliberate in exactly when he was going to take a photo...I know it's difficult to explain, but seriously, looking at the photos made me feel very weird.
Perhaps I'm just a total prude or something, but I think taking a photo of someone without their knowledge is creepy, I mean fine when in a crowd and you happen to catch people in background or whatever, but gosh...these photos really looked so deliberate.
And actually he did try to hide it, because after he showed me the photo of the boat, I asked to look at the other photos, i asked him to go back to main photo page and he said no, sorry I didn't mention that in my OP.
I guess really what is most important is not what she looked like, cause my very first reaction to seeing the photo wasn't jealousy, it was more of a shivers up the spine kind of feeling...does that make sense?

[hopefulwoman2]

But so far...1 vote for not creepy
I really appreciate your advice. ty.

[Stillness]

my very first reaction to seeing the photo wasn't jealousy, it was more of a shivers up the spine kind of feeling...does that make sense?

Yes. The next step is to follow the creepy feeling through. We feel things first and process later. So process. Where does it lead? There's nothing illegal or inherently wrong with taking pictures in public, but it could indicate leanings toward something sinister. It probably requires more discussion with him to make a determination. I wouldn't let that feeling go unti you're comfortable. Maybe he's a dangerous person and your feeling is legitimate. Maybe he's harmless and some explanation would clear things up. It doesn't sound like you gave him a chance. What was the lady doing, anyway?

[hopefulwoman2]

I've known the man 5 yrs, this isn't the first time he's done something that I thought was a little on the edge of decency so maybe that's playing a part.
In one photo, she was adjusting her suit, in another photo she was putting on her sarong, and the third photo she was bending down to pick something up, her towel maybe.
I do plan on talking to him more about it at some point, but want to get my feelings straight first, and he is spending time with his children this weekend so I don't want to interrupt that time with my feelings.
Honestly though, I know how he is, he's not a very good communicator, I doubt I will get any answers or reassurance from him. It's gonna have to come from inside me I think.

[jns]

This is much less of a problem than him looking at porn. Also, it would be worse if it was a closeup as that would mean the subject was aware of him taking the picture and may have encouraged it. I think telling him he is sick was a bit over the top. He sounds like a normal man with a bit of a roving eye.

[hopefulwoman2]

OK, so another vote for non creepy
So it's normal for men to go around taking photos of women without their knowledge?
Most men do that?
OK. I'm still thinking about it.
Clearly, my head is more into thinking it's creepy and I guess I need my eyes opened if it's not creepy.

[Ashlee T.]

Okay..well 2 man votes...now here's for a woman's vote: Does what he did make him a creep? No, not by itself. But would I be bothered by it and would it give me a "ick" feeling? Absolutely. An no offense meant to JNS, but I don't believe it's really fair to say "he sounds like a normal man". Is that to say that "normal" men watch porn behind their SO's back, troll online for women, have inappropriate conversations with other women while in a committed relationship, take photos of strangers in bikini's so that he can most likely refer to them later for "viewing pleasure"? I guess if you're looking at it from the perspective of this was a one time odd ball kind of thing, then maybe. But all of it combined with someone I'd been with for 5 years.... I'd have a bit of an issue with it.

I'm also not sure it's fair to even bring jealousy up in this kind of situation. This is a woman who seems very understanding and tolerant. This is a woman who has caught her SO in what I consider to be unfaithful situations and has stuck around and tried very hard to work through that with him. I'd have a problem with my man taking photos of other women so he could slap the sausage to them later, regardless of what she looked like.

I also have an issue with the fact that this is a man you've dated 5 years, you seem very understanding and accommodating of his relationship with his ex to the point you'd have no issue with them having a beach day together..........................yet you've never met her and only vaguely even know what she looks like?

How often does this man tell you you're beautiful? How often does he truly make you feel appreciated and loved? Is he affectionate and loving with you (aside from when he wants sex)? I dunno..... I get the feeling you're with someone who takes advantage of your kind and understanding nature.

I believe we are ALL, (male AND female) instinctively interested in things we find attractive. We, as women, don't walk through this life and only find one man attractive and have no sexual interest for anyone else. We have urges. We have desires. But most of us are taught by society that we're naughty if we act on those things while in a relationship, that we are cheaters, that we are hussies. Would it be considered "normal" in a relationship with a woman if she did the things described above behind her SO's back? I don't think so. And I don't think "all men do it". I think we are living in times in which boys are taught that it's okay to act on their every sexual urge and desire and as a result, we often sadly see this kind of behavior as normal. Somewhere along the lines someone came up with the idea that it's "not cheating if you're not actually touching someone"....so suddenly things like porn, taking pics of random women, inappropriate discussions online are considered "okay". Nope.... not to this gal.

[hopefulwoman2]

BD, it's like you are in my brain. I sincerely appreciate your response which is insightful and informative.
Now, I don't know if I'm liking your response simply because it's supporting my feelings or not, I'm trying to be really objective about this.

Just to clarify, I have met his wife...but I honestly haven't seen her in over a year. The reason for that is my choice and it's based on the fact that historically, his ex always has gotten into some ruckus or whatever with whoever he has dated over the years. So I keep my distance on purpose. Even though they have been divorced since their youngest child was just a baby, she actually seems to have some sort of attitude towards any woman in his life. She displayed it to me once and it was mild in comparison to what she's capable (as I've heard from him), so like I said, I deliberately keep my distance.
It just doesn't seem like it would do anyone any good to have me in her face, and while I realize that it's kind of giving in to her controlling behavior...I just don't want to be a part of it. I think it's best for the kids if I just stay away.

So when I first saw the photos, it was just as a passing glance, same build, same hair color kinda thing, so I just naturally assumed it was her, because my brain just didn't register that he would take photos of some other woman yet my gut felt funny.

He does frequently tell me I'm beautiful but as far as making feel loved and appreciated...well, if I dig deep I have to say not so much. Most of the time I feel like a convenience to him. Yes, he does things for me...mows the yard, often helps me out with things I may not be able to afford on my own, gets the oil changed in my car, he can be super sweet at times...in the morning, I have many bags to carry out to the car (laptop, purse, lunch tote which is huge cause I carry 3 20 oz bottles of water with me every day) and he always starts the car for me (on the mornings he is here and not at his house) and carries out my bags, if he's at my place when I get home from work, he again comes out to carry everything back in and open the door for me etc, but he's never given me a real piece of jewelry, never taken a vacation with me (other than once when we visited my family in Florida), doesn't take me to my favorite restaurants unless he specifically wants to go there too.
So he's really sweet...but then again, he's kind of a jerk.

Your first paragraph about it all being combined it pretty spot on. It's like he doesn't feel the need or desire to adhere to any kind of moral code at all, I can't trust him really, he is not one to tell the truth the first time I ask, that's been proven over and over again.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to respond in such a respectful manner, I really appreciate it. And I think too that the fact that I have to come to some online site to ask about this rather than going to my friends (who all know much of our previous history) is very telling...it's like I'm feeling shameful.
And that is not cool. Cause I've really got nothing to be ashamed do I?

IDK, off to yoga... Thanks