[effy2014]

Unpublished data sets and unpublished manuscripts hardly constitutes peer reviewed studies. Admittedly, the research is in its infancy.

I read the Conley article (the purpose of which was to assess stigma against polyamorous relationships of which this post evidences) and the data set is interesting. In their study, the survey data was taken from ads on Facebook and Craig's List. The sample was overwhelmingly young (mean age 24), overwhelmingly female (above 63%) and overwhelmingly white. I did not see any breakdown by sexual orientation. However, it would be interesting to know how many of the 5% are non-heterosexual "couplings". It does appear that gay men have a significantly higher percentage of polyamory as do lesbian women. In any event, it is impossible (in my view, of course) to extrapolate this data to a conclusion that 5% of all couples are in consensual nonmonogamous relationships.

[jns]

Hm, I was reading up on polygamy in Muslim societies.

[DreamP346]

Unpublished data sets and unpublished manuscripts hardly constitutes peer reviewed studies. Admittedly, the research is in its infancy.

I read the Conley article (the purpose of which was to assess stigma against polyamorous relationships of which this post evidences) and the data set is interesting. In their study, the survey data was taken from ads on Facebook and Craig's List. The sample was overwhelmingly young (mean age 24), overwhelmingly female (above 63%) and overwhelmingly white. I did not see any breakdown by sexual orientation. However, it would be interesting to know how many of the 5% are non-heterosexual "couplings". It does appear that gay men have a significantly higher percentage of polyamory as do lesbian women. In any event, it is impossible (in my view, of course) to extrapolate this data to a conclusion that 5% of all couples are in consensual nonmonogamous relationships.

Effy, as I mentioned, it's estimated. A lot of research gets started this way. Usually college students as volunteers. Nowadays from online voluntary surveys. It's a start. This population just hasn't been studied much. Everything I have read has been from academic circles, unlike the biased self interested parties as you mentioned, but I also tend to not read things unless they are from sources I trust. Therefore it is possible that most of the data out there are from these groups. For a while, I was studying to be a sex therapist and I met many academic folks interested in these topics. So there are people studying these groups. It's just not a topic that gets lots of funding.

Personally, I think the 5% is an underestimation. One thing I have noticed since starting the study of human sexuality is that people are doing lots of non-heteronormative stuff behind closed doors. When friends and acquaintances heard what I was studying, so many of them came out and told me about their personal stories. I was shocked. I thought of them as "normal" people in monogamous heterosexual relationships living in the suburbs with white picket fences. I met a poly couple who lived in what would be considered a boring plain suburban neighbourhood. They when to their local BDSM meetup where they also meet other poly folks. They were shocked to meet 3 other couples from their block! Of course these are anecdotal stories, but personally I think there are many people you are not aware of who don't live by the traditional social standards of coupling.

[effy2014]

I think that the point of this early research is to justify polyamory as a lifestyle. It seems focused in "ridding" us of our "archaic" notions of sexuality. The more the researcher can point to numbers practicing polyamory the more acceptance and the less bigotry. That is why the survey data is focused on comparing various "happiness" factors (stability, well educated, communicate more) to monogamy. Basically, it's a sell job.

Frankly, I do not care what sexual practices other people engage in. To each his or her own. I would like to understand it more . . . what drives people in successful committed monogamous relationships to chose polyamory. But I resent researchers and psychologists telling me that I would be happier and more adjusted if I just treated sex as a commodity and had more people in my relationships.

[DreamP346]

I think that the point of this early research is to justify polyamory as a lifestyle. It seems focused in "ridding" us of our "archaic" notions of sexuality. The more the researcher can point to numbers practicing polyamory the more acceptance and the less bigotry. That is why the survey data is focused on comparing various "happiness" factors (stability, well educated, communicate more) to monogamy. Basically, it's a sell job.

Not too long ago (and still to this day), research on the homosexual population and statistics about them were considered sell job. If you feel research to study what we don't understand is a sell job, then that is fine. You can say the same about studying global warming, the effects of smoking on health, etc all sell jobs to convince people that the earth is getting hotter, people need to stop smoking, etc. One of the big reasons there is such a focus on understanding happiness and type of people who engage in polyamory is because there are so many myths about them, ie that they are not truly happy or they are damaged people. Research is what dispels these myths.

I think that the point of this early research is to justify polyamory as a lifestyle. It seems focused in "ridding" us of our "archaic" notions of sexuality. The more the researcher can point to numbers practicing polyamory the more acceptance and the less bigotry. That is why the survey data is focused on comparing various "happiness" factors (stability, well educated, communicate more) to monogamy. Basically, it's a sell job.

Frankly, I do not care what sexual practices other people engage in. To each his or her own. I would like to understand it more . . . what drives people in successful committed monogamous relationships to chose polyamory. But I resent researchers and psychologists telling me that I would be happier and more adjusted if I just treated sex as a commodity and had more people in my relationships.

Nobody is telling you that you will be happier practicing polyamory (at least these researches are not). They are making a comparison to monogamous relationships as that is pretty much a basic element of research--compare to a standard. Research is finding some interesting things about this population and debunking many myths. Researchers rarely tell you what to do, especially in these preliminary stages. Therapists, clinicians, parents, priests and society will tell you what you need to do. Some of that will be helpful and other not. Research that shows improved communication leading to greater happiest has nothing to do with telling youwhat type of lifestyle you need to engage in or treating sex like a commodity.

[effy2014]

Not too long ago (and still to this day), research on the homosexual population and statistics about them were considered sell job. If you feel research to study what we don't understand is a sell job, then that is fine. You can say the same about studying global warming, the effects of smoking on health, etc all sell jobs to convince people that the earth is getting hotter, people need to stop smoking, etc. One of the big reasons there is such a focus on understanding happiness and type of people who engage in polyamory is because there are so many myths about them, ie that they are not truly happy or they are damaged people. Research is what dispels these myths.

I am all for academic research on polyamory or any subject. Dispel the myths and reveal the truth. I would hardly compare the medical research on smoking or scientific research on climate change to studying the emotional bonds of a polyamorous relationship. What is universally good for me medically is not even remotely similar to whether I would be a better human being in a polyamorous relationship.

Nobody is telling you that you will be happier practicing polyamory (at least these researches are not). They are making a comparison to monogamous relationships as that is pretty much a basic element of research--compare to a standard. Research is finding some interesting things about this population and debunking many myths. Researchers rarely tell you what to do, especially in these preliminary stages. Therapists, clinicians, parents, priests and society will tell you what you need to do. Some of that will be helpful and other not. Research that shows improved communication leading to greater happiest has nothing to do with telling youwhat type of lifestyle you need to engage in or treating sex like a commodity.

This is where we disagree. The researchers sell these stories to the press as "Polyamory May Be Good For You" because those that practice it are better educated and communicate so much better (you know, all the cool kids do it). If you want to dispel myths, then report that report that polyamorous couples communicate with each other, are well adjusted and happy. There is no need to bash other lifestyles. Especially when using a sample drawn from the internet (instead of a truly random sample) that does not reflect the general population, one should take great caution comparing one lifestyle to another. If you want to study lifestyle differences, take a randomized group of happily committed monogamous couples and happy committed polyamorous couples and see if there are any differences.

No one can tell you what the best lifestyle is for anyone. Not a researcher, priest, therapist and certainly not society. I agree with you that all successful relationships require excellent communication skills. I believe that a truly independent researcher will find that, whatever orientation, the criteria for successful relationships are very similar.

[jen1447]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned or I missed something, but casually browsing a few articles, I see that polyamory and this 4-5% figure is rather casually defined. They seem to include anyone who has permission-based sex outside the relationship. (I had always defined it as simultaneous romantic relationships.) In terms of simple impressions, which I know are by no means scientific, I could easily see this 4-5% being made up of people who have permission-based sex outside their relationship, and the strictly polyamorous - those who have multiple romantic partners. I'd find it unlikely that 4-5% of people have multiple romantic relationships. So maybe it's just a matter of definitions here.

I personally wouldn't consider cuckolds and people like that polyamorous, and I doubt that those people who genuinely (and in their minds ethically) have more than one romance in their lives would appreciate being lumped in with the more conventionally deviant subsets.

[DreamP346]

This is where we disagree. The researchers sell these stories to the press as "Polyamory May Be Good For You" because those that practice it are better educated and communicate so much better (you know, all the cool kids do it).

Researchers don't sell their stories. They present their research to journals in very boring scientifically defined parameters (abstract, intro, results, etc) that accepts them and in return they get recognized. They don't be paid for that. The press may pick up stories and those sensational headlines are developed by the press to entice readers. Again, researchers don't get paid for that. A very small minority may be so popular (like Dr. Berman and Dr. Ruth) who may get paid, but the majority get nothing.

Those sensational headlines don't help researchers. In fact they often are misleading and scientist bloggers are constantly putting out statements about how the media is misrepresenting the data.

Not saying that there aren't a few bad apples, but you can't blame an entire profession of that.

[effy2014]

In fact they often are misleading and scientist bloggers are constantly putting out statements about how the media is misrepresenting the data.

Not saying that there aren't a few bad apples, but you can't blame an entire profession of that.

Oh, I don't know. One of Terri Conley's recent articles is "More Oxygen Please: How Polyamorous Relationships Might Oxygenate Marriages." She has a perspective and can "manipulate" data to support it just as any good researcher can. Start with a thesis and prove it.

[Stillness]

There isn't a lot of research on this topic but there is some if you look in the right place. Search the peer reviewed journals. These are academic research. The 5% comes up frequently in the handful of research that has been done. Here is something from a published article:

A total of 47 individuals (4.3% of the total sample) of participants identified as currently engaging in a consensual nonmonogamous relationship (Conley, Moors, Matsick, & Ziegler, unpublished data). In addition, some of our other research that provided romantic relationships options (and also did not specifically recruit for anyone in a romantic relationship) found similar percentages (e.g., 4.5% identified as part of a CNM relationship; Moors, Conley, Edelstein, & Chopik, manuscript in preparation).

Conley, T. D., Moors, A. C., Matsick, J. L., & Ziegler, A. (2013). The fewer the merrier?: Assessing stigma surrounding nonnormative romantic relationships. Analyses of Social Issues and Public Policy, 13(1), 1–30. doi: 10.1111/j.1530-2415.2012.01286.x

I've been out of town and haven't had the chance to read through all of this. One of the interesting bits I did read was this:

monogamous relationships were rated more positively than CNM relationships on every dimension (both relationship-relevant and arbitrary relationship-irrelevant factors) that we examined and across diverse social groups, including CNM individuals themselves

So even polyamorous people view polyamory as less than ideal? When I read a quote on the https://www.womens-health.com/boards...oup-sex-3.html thread:

Just remember the greater the perversity the greater you will enjoy sex.

It made me wonder if some of the polyamorous behavior we see is based on the pleasure that some people get from doing things that they think are bad or forbidden. For people that get pleasure from goodness or purity in a relationship, it's incomprehensible. When I get a chance, I want to look at more of this research.