[rcoreyus]

How long have you been married? (you may have posted this earlier but I missed it). You say sex isn't the biggest part of your life, but are you willing to live without if she doesn't change?

[amaranthine]

The first thing I suspected when I read this was sexual abuse in her past. Or any kind of abuse, really. Maybe she has self-esteem issues, despite the constant flattery, which she might disregard because you are her husband... and she may feel you're obligated to compliment her. You also mentioned that she works out... is she satisfied with the condition of her body? Has she ever mentioned what she thinks of it?
How does she dress? Does she wear things appropriate to her age? Conservative clothes? Sexy clothes? Young or old styles? How does she wear her hair? Does she like to wear accessory pieces? These questions might sound out-there, but you can tell a lot about a person just from small things like that.
It could be that she is just a very controlled person. Maybe she can't stand the thought of losing control of herself to someone else, even you. Again, this leads me to believe there's some sort of history going on there...

I highly suggest councilling. Relationships need communication to function well, and it seems like there's a missing piece on the puzzle.

[WildChild]

This does sound like it could be a hormone issue. Maybe a physical? Things can get out of order. I just suggested a book (surprise! Imagine me suggesting a book?!) on another thread and it occurs to me that it may offer some help with this. The Woman's Advantage Diet, was developed by a doctor to use diet to adjust the natural hormone changes during a woman's cycle. Food is chemicals, natural chemicals and some of them are powerful and can impact the hormone levels in our bodies. Anyway just read through the explaination of how it works and see if it makes sense. It certainly wouldn't hurt and who knows it might make a difference!

[ItsASecret]

Swiftus I can relate to your post in a very high degree, I act almost the same way around my boyfriend. When I am with him I almost don't even want to have sex because the affection is just so high so much in the day that I don't pay attention to it. He tries everything. The flowers, the baths, the massages, the suppers when I am home from school, the presents without any occasion, the gentle caresses when I am making supper, the gentle kisses when we are just watching tv. You name and he has done it. Sure I feel loved from it but just not all the time. I also have things on my mind, usually related to work and school and they take over everything. When I am not thinking about those things my mind is totally and completely blank which sounds like the perfect opportunity to engage in sex but it isn`t. I can sit in bed for hours and not have a single thought pop into my head while he is paying attention to my body and trying to sexually please me with foreplay. I do not know if your wife is the same way but once those blank thoughts come into my head there is little chance for me to suddenly get in the mood. Sometimes I do end up just giving pity sex, and I hate myself for doing it but I don`t like to see the way he is when he does realize that I`m just not going to get in the mood and he is just raring to go. Even with just simple kissing like you mentioned you did that night, I too will stop my boyfriend when I know I am not going to be in the mood (and that ends up being very often). The problem with me is that I naturally have a low libido. I'm not looking for sex all the time and I guess that is what keeps me from totally enjoying all the affection. Has she talked about her sex drive? Does she talk to you about what her thoughts are during the times you are giving her affection? Does she say anything about being thankful that you are trying so hard? You need to find out what her deep down opinions are, not just the quick responses that avoid opening the "can of worms".

Hormone issues may be the problem though, but only if she talks to you about her self esteem. If she has low self esteem go towards depression. In that case, and likely only that case, you could probably say it is due to hormone issues. However, the matter would be more towards serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and cortisol levels. There is really nothing you can do if it is hormonal though because only trained individuals can deal with the problem. Consult a professional in that case though but don't force her to do any counselling unless she really feels it is what she needs.

[WildChild]

Wow, this is so sad. I've always thought it would be lovely to be with a man who would do things like that and want to arouse me and be so tender - never had it. Fortunately unless he's just an out and out jerk to me I stay pretty turned on, on my own. But that kind of treatment would put me right over the top!

Why do you think you go blank?

[ItsASecret]

Wow, this is so sad. I've always thought it would be lovely to be with a man who would do things like that and want to arouse me and be so tender - never had it. Fortunately unless he's just an out and out jerk to me I stay pretty turned on, on my own. But that kind of treatment would put me right over the top!

Why do you think you go blank?

I know and it just kills me, sometimes I do respond and I get into the mood but its not as often as I would like. He has a higher sex drive than me which is fine because I have always been a shy woman, but I give it an honest effort to get in the mood as often as possible just for him. As for my mind, I can say without a doubt it is depression. Ever since I can remember I have never been all that social in school, never really hung out with friends, never drank (try explaining to high school friends that you do not have an interest in being drunk every weekend). In addition to just that general stuff I have hypothyroidism, amongst other personal medical issues, that can/do result in signs of depression. I talked to my doctor about it but she just said it was just a symptom and to go back and talk to her about it if I continues. It has, however I will not go any further with therapy because I personally just do not buy into that junk. I believe in medicine, not talking or trying to find some spiritual self to help make life "oh so fulfilling". Therapy works wonders for some people, I can guarantee it will not for me though. It hurts to read Swiftus's post and relate so much to it knowing that I may never change even if I try really hard to do so.

[WildChild]

I would encourage you to rethink your ideas about therapy or spirituality. Personally I'm not a religious person and would be the first to agree that there is a lot of nonsense out there as therapy but there is also a lot of good. Flat out the mind is powerful. Far more so than we usually recognize.

What I have found in my personal journey (it's taken me some odd places) is that most of what we need to do for ourselves we can do but sometimes we need the observations or suggestions of an observer to point us in the right direction or give us new approach. Sometimes we need to be essentially hit over the head or get the bucket of ice water in the face to be made to see what we are denying or hiding from. In that case help from another source can be invaluable.

It can take time for things to sink in or until we are ready to see and deal with them. There are things that were brought to my attention years ago as possible issues, which I simply shut out and denied could be of significance but now I've come to see that they were. But I had to be ready to face them and deal with them. It would have been better if I could have done so sooner but I would have needed help in doing it. A good therapist (as hard to find as a good mechanic) can do that. So can reading and exploring, journaling and talking to thinking, caring people. I am learning more about myself and others daily but can see that I could have shortened the time line on this and saved myself a lot of grief I had sought out more or better help.

I don't know what your beliefs are but I believe that all things are connected, nothing happens independently or in isolation. I do not believe in coincidences - things happen for a reason. Everyone you cross paths with can either teach you or learn from you. If you hold a thought strongly, with emotion, it will affect you. If you believe that you are depressed, you will be. We all have ups and downs but unfortunately in our society we've gotten the idea that we should be medicated out of it. Better to face and deal, I think. Dig down, write, let it flow and see if you can find where this is coming from. You might find Shad Helmstatter's books on self talk interesting and useful - it really does work because the mind cannot distinguish between reality and what you simply tell it. Start telling yourself how sexy, sensual and juicy you really are and your mind will say, " I can do that". Only you can do it. Swiftus can't do it for the lady in his life, she has to want it and do it. You want it. You CAN do it.

[ItsASecret]

I am not religious, I am scientific. Spirituality and feeling highly optimistic about life are a joke to me. I won't go into that though. I have gone to school and have learned about therapy. What methods they use, the goals they set for patients, the topics covered, how they evaluate progress, and I know I have not taken graduate courses related to it but I do know what they look for and how they approach it. I also know a great deal about the mind and how it works, again due to my studies. The mind can be manipulated and used to perform whatever you want it to, unless there is actual problems with the mind itself which in that case would need outside help usually in the form of medication. Information getting lost in translation usually happens to people who are unaware of how they act and feel, but for me I fully and 100% acknowledge everything and do not deny anything. I know what affects me, I have had entire nights where I cover it with my boyfriend just so he knows where I am coming from. Of course he has no suggestions or answers because he shouldn't, he just needs to listen and I absolutely love him for doing that.

My personal belief is that the majority of things are a coincidence and therefore there is little meaning to things unless I simply cannot agree that it is a coincidence (example: ending up talking to a stranger in a coffee shop is nothing but coincidence and has zero meaning to me). I have written things down, and I know exactly what types of things have/do affect me but there is really nothing more I can do if what I can do I have already done. There is total frustration because I want to become this outgoing woman with a high desire for sex ( I will never be nympho quality though) for him but based on what I have learned, what I have experienced, and how I look at things I simply don't have any answers.

[WildChild]

Not to hijack the thread but you don't preceive entanglement as part of your life itself?

[rcoreyus]

ItsASecret - my wonderfully thought out reply was eaten by a bug in firefox, so you will need to put up with my pitiful second attempt

It sounds like you have a wonderful boyfriend, one how truly loves you, the sort of man that most women would love to have. Unfortunately one of them may have him. He will be tempted and either give in to temptation (and could you really blame him), or maybe worse, stay faithful and be secretly resentful (and would you want that).

swiftus: I'm not trying to steal the thread, ItsASecret seems to match some of the characteristics of your wife (and mine), and I'm very interested in how she thinks.

ItsASecret: You are scientific, don't believe in therapy, spirituality, religion etc. I AGREE. I am a working scientist, and I have little patience with those either. So, look at the situation rationally: Your boyfriend loves and desires you. You may love him, but you don't want nearly as much intimacy as he does. This wil leave him feeling rejected (however he may say that he doesn't mind), and that is likely to make him unhappy / depressed.

You have said that the mind can be manipulated - again I agree, and I understand that you don't want someone else mucking around in you head (assuming they could even have any effect on you). So - manipulate your own mind! You want to be outgoing, to enjoy sex - so DO IT. You sound like someone who is control of herself, use that control.

Many years ago I was very shy, lonely, miserable. I made a conscious decision to change my behaviour and it worked. In my case the best plan was to simply pretend to be what I wanted to be, that gradually became a habit, became my personality. Maybe something different will work for you.

Try. Act the way you want to be. I think you will be much happier. I'm sure he will be much happier. Besides, what is the downside? What is the worst that will happen if you meet him at the door wearing nothing but a smile?