[Hopeless Dork]

Oh the endless porn debate. If for the moment I only consider the cases where porn doesn't directly affect anyone's sex life, and doesn't take significant time away. If I take the genders and specifics away, what I see is a couple "A" and "B". A has some activity they enjoy. This activity does not directly affect B, but B is upset by the activity and wants A to stop. Should A stop.

I think when you say this activity of A does not directly affect B is my first disagreement to your response.

If you cooked dinner significant other every day... and not just tv dinners either, but yeah... sometimes you'd make those. Sometimes you'd make 5 course meals ... you go out of your way to pick up their favorite ingredients, they see you lay them on the counter, they know you are working on making them something really special and then they say, brb. Run to 7-11 and grab a hotdog, or 12 of them... enough to fill them up so good there is no way they will be hungry.

They know whenever they eat 12 hotdogs from 7-11 they are not in the mood for your cooking, whatever it is. So when they make the choice to run out and get that and come back not hungry and so you must put all that stuff you made in the trash...

You are kind of directly affected. Feelings count. No...they didn't force you to cook anything, no them eating the hot dogs doesn't affect your body... but how you feel about the thought process involved in going out and doing that is directly related to the choice they made.

Its still a relation. I see it sort of directly.

[Guest]

I've heard that said before but it is my opinion that this particular explanation is nothing more than an excuse to justify a behavior.

Using that same argument (that it's ingrained) why aren't we women constantly having children? It's in our makeup to reproduce also, to be mothers. Why aren't we constantly seeking out the "perfect" mate to reproduce with?

well some women are doing just that. just like not all men are addicted or not to porn, not all women are or are not looking to be have babies all of the time. one of the other forums i am on is filled with women who are trying to have more than a couple of babies. one in fact is finalizing their divorce next month and is saying she wants to have two more children with her boyfriend.

it may be an extreme example, but there are women out there who are trying to keep on having babies, albeit maybe not with the "perfect" mate.

i guess my point is that we are all different in these regards.

[east98606]

Porn

I can masterbate in the morning before work....while looking at porn. That night I can make love to my wife and its all about her! Fantacy/reality.

[Hopeless Dork]

The way u are using it, east it seems to work fine in ur relationship. Most of the women complaining about their guys porn use also have a co-complaint of feeling sexually neglected.

If you have a high enough drive to do both porn while providing your lady with the intimacy she wants with you than its all good.

Not all guys have that kind of drive and use porn knowing they'll habe no interest in sex later when their S.O wants to be with them. That's when porn becomes an issue in a relationship. When it takes top-billing to reality.

But I've come to realize porn is the scapegoat when the real issue is how dedicated the partner is to using their sexual energy for intimacy with a person they care for vs selfishly, alone.

[stressed]

The way u are using it, east it seems to work fine in ur relationship. Most of the women complaining about their guys porn use also have a co-complaint of feeling sexually neglected.

If you have a high enough drive to do both porn while providing your lady with the intimacy she wants with you than its all good.

Not all guys have that kind of drive and use porn knowing they'll habe no interest in sex later when their S.O wants to be with them. That's when porn becomes an issue in a relationship. When it takes top-billing to reality.

But I've come to realize porn is the scapegoat when the real issue is how dedicated the partner is to using their sexual energy for intimacy with a person they care for vs selfishly, alone.

Exactly, this is what it is about. Nothing by itself is a threat, porn, other women, TV, hot magazines, none of it. It's how men choose to use them knowing how it affects them and their SO.

Women usually start to wonder about porn when:

- They notice an odd behaviour (i.e. "honey, can you go to the store that is an hour away, I can't follow you, my nose is running" or "sure, it's Saturday night, you want sex but I am sooo tired; sure, I was home alone all day but I've been working all week".)

- The sex is dissatisfactory (i.e. lasts too long without him reaching an orgasm without his hand, or he's not interested in having sex even it's been many days since the last time).

When you have both symptoms then you feel like porn is a problem; that it affects your relationship. When you tell him it bothers you and his reply is "this is what men do, it's perfectly healthy" and he ignores the part where you say "but you obviously prefer porn to me" then we have a problem. And the problem is that this makes you feel inadequate, not woman enough, not sexy enough, worst than those actresses with no self value, and that hurts.

I think if a man watches every day, or multiple times a week and doesn't want sex (it's important to emphasize whether he wants sex or not) then we are dealing with an addiction. It's a hobby, a habit, an addiction that feels good, like smoking. The first step is to make him understand you feelings, why does it affect you, why it hurts to know he watches so often and so on. He MUST understand.
The second step is to take a look at the larger picture. Are you sexually satisfied? Do you trust him as a person? Does he care about your needs? If he does then this can slowly be solved, as then you will meet half way and find a solution for both. If he doesn't care then let him know that his actions have an effect, that you're not going to just sit there and accept it when it hurts you and even that you want to cut down on sex because he just can't have both at the same degree.

I don't know if my fiance watches porn after 6 months of stopping with it, he does not have much time to do so but I've chosen to trust him, and in fact, I just don't care anymore. I certainly don't accept any kind of behaviour such as "can you go shopping with my mom and I stay home this Saturday", not because I have anything against masturbation, but because I've stopped with doing extra work for us both just so he gets his porn and give me little sex. If he wants to watch porn then he must find his own way to do it, I'm not going to check his computer anymore because it's not the computer that should matter, but how he treats me. I focus on our sex life and not his potential porn moments, because otherwise I'd go crazy (and I had been crazy for over a year). If I sense that he doesn't satisfy me, whether it's because of porn or other reasons, then I'm simply not happy with him and he's adult enough to know what it is he does that effects our sex life. I feel much happier approaching it this way.

My advice is: Find the reasons why it bothers you and tell him. If he doesn't care then you have to act, do something to his computer, move it next to yours, write him a letter about it, leave him alone for a few days to show that you need some time off the hurting instead of wondering about it all the time. Because if he's addicted to it he needs a shock to wake him up out of it. If it's just something that happens once in a while (NOT weekly, please) then just let him do it, it's actually not a big deal if it's rare.

As for whether they think about us or the porn stars, I'd go for them just enjoying it more than thinking about porn stars or thinking much whatsoever. If you have serious doubts about this, then choose a few positions where he has to have his eyes open looking at you, have him be standing or things like that. It will make you feel more confident about it.

[Millania]

Thank you to everyone that continues to reply
Stressed-I have tried to talk to him about it and tell him how much it hurts me and it makes me feel like dirt, like i am disgusting and ugly- he DID tell me that all men do it, its normal, I need to relax, that he doenst masturbate to it(I know this is obviously a lie) and that if I wasnt so insecure I wouldnt care that he looks-he knows how insecure i have become about my body
there is no point in confronting him about it, he will not stop he will only hide it better, and it would probably drive him further into porn if I continue to tell him to stop
I wish he would stop, it feels like it rips my heart out
I cant stop crying when I find out
I wish I didnt care, but I really do
he mostly views in the morning as soon as I walk out the door for work
going to try and initiate sex early in the am before I leave work? to see if this reduces the porn use but I highly doubt it will make him stop, however anything less than what he is viewing now will be better than viewing all the time

[Fallen1]

...... and that if I wasnt so insecure I wouldnt care that he looks.........

I absolutely can't stand it when a woman is told the only reason she has a problem with porn is because of her insecurity.

[stressed]

Thank you to everyone that continues to reply
Stressed-I have tried to talk to him about it and tell him how much it hurts me and it makes me feel like dirt, like i am disgusting and ugly- he DID tell me that all men do it, its normal, I need to relax, that he doenst masturbate to it(I know this is obviously a lie) and that if I wasnt so insecure I wouldnt care that he looks-he knows how insecure i have become about my body
there is no point in confronting him about it, he will not stop he will only hide it better, and it would probably drive him further into porn if I continue to tell him to stop
I wish he would stop, it feels like it rips my heart out
I cant stop crying when I find out
I wish I didnt care, but I really do
he mostly views in the morning as soon as I walk out the door for work
going to try and initiate sex early in the am before I leave work? to see if this reduces the porn use but I highly doubt it will make him stop, however anything less than what he is viewing now will be better than viewing all the time

Their best defense is: "all men do it, it's normal" and it's very easy to them to blame you for overreacting. They ALL say that and feel confident about it that they are right and that you're the crazy one. But this is not how relationships work. Let's assume that you get no sex at all and he always watches porn daily. If you'd have multiple one night stands just for the sex he wouldn't like you to tell him "it's just sex and it's normal, it doesn't affect you in any way because I'm only in love with you and I only use them because I need orgasms". But he would get mad then, wouldn't he? This is what I hate, dual standards created by society.

You are NOT insecure, HE is the one creating insecurities in your mind. He makes you feel second best when it comes to his pleasure. It is as if you'd find another man to pay for everything while he goes to work 8 hours a day: he won't feel like a provider then, he'll feel inadequate as a man.

I know how it feels, I have been there, it is awful and humiliating. It's actually hard to describe how low it makes one feel. But it cannot go on forever, you will ruin your life and your self worth over a man's masturbation tendencies. And you DON'T DESERVE to feel like that! You are worth much more than that!

Do you have sex frequently? Do you enjoy it? Does he treat you well the rest of the day? Is it possible to change your schedules so that he gets less time alone? I recently read a study that said men are more keen on cheating when they're out of a job, mainly because they have too much free time in their hands. Give him ideas for new hobbies, find what else he enjoys doing, maybe he does it out of habit or boredom when he's alone. One of my fiance's excuses for it was "I have nothing else to do". Daily masturbation is not physically healthy and I don't care what certain people say that 5 or 6 times a day is OK; it has been proven by doctors that it is NOT. It damages the nerves and makes one's mind used to the visual stimulation instead of the Real Thing.

Try to have sex with him before work, ask him what his fantasies are, what he'd like to do, go out for the weekend, ask him to buy you special clothes he'd like you to wear. If he still continues with daily porn then I'm afraid he just doesn't want to change this, he's comfortable as it is and in his mind he sees it as something "normal". Find articles about the effects of masturbation in men and show him. Ask him if he's not satisfied sexually. Above all, be calm and patient, because it is not your fault.

[Guest]

The old porn argument.

Tex hit it on the head a few pages back.

Men indulge to experience variety. If people don't want to accept that as an answer, that is surely their business. But it is the answer. There isn't some hidden agenda, we're not trying to hide anything from you. We just crave variety.

Just for perspective, a man using porn to masturbate who can't perform later is no different than a woman who regularly uses sex toys, but then complains that her man can't sexually satisfy her.

And lastly, I think it's rather hypocritical to complain about internet porn, but then have a stockpile of sex toys. I dunno. Just my thinking.

Richie mentioned that if person B doesn't like what person A is doing, person B always has the option to leave.

And if someone doesn't respect your wishes, that is exactly what you should do, because if you continue to allow disrespect in your relationship, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[WildChild]

Just where are all these women with all these piles of sex toys, who get so much out of them that they don't want a man? Where are all the men who complain about not getting any because she's so busy with her toys? I haven't heard of any.