[Hopeless Dork]

You directed that question at fallen, but I'll answer it for myself. I am not a nurturer by nature, actually my boyfriend is much better at that.

I think I would have left if things did not change, in fact - I know I would have. But communication and patience and has brought our relationship to another level.

Why did I stay when the going was tough? Because I loved him as a whole person, there was one area of our relationship that was leaving me hurt when the rest of the relationship made me whole.

There is no perfect person. If there was, I wouldn't want them... and I'm darn sure they wouldn't want me. Its a delicate balance of is this person making my life happier better with them in it.. than it would be otherwise. And that answer for me was yes... them in my life was making me happier than my life would be without them.

So while I did spend some nights crying and upset... I did spend many more nights with my head in the clouds feeling more elated and loved than I have in my whole life.

Everyone has to evaluate their own specific situation and figure out if they are miserable more than they are happy... and make the choice to stay or go based on those findings. Will anyone have the power to make anyone else 100 percent happy 100 percent of the time? No. But there is a balance, that must be held.

[stressed]

I actually think this discussion is interesting and I wish more men joined [it feels unfair that we only have one man here and we're so many "against" him (always in a friendly way of speaking, I respect OhThereYouAre a lot)].

About the first link "wife masturbates while I'm asleep": I think this man actually ENJOYS that his wife masturbates next to him, or am I wrong? They have a great sex life and it's got even better since he found it. He even suggests it to other women. She simply has a high sex drive and masturbates next to her husband, which he likes, she doesn't masturbate over porn when he's at work.

Second link, "wife chooses masturbation over me": we are dealing with a lesbian couple. There is the possibility that the wife is fantasizing about men and doesn't dare say it. There is no man involved.

Third link with the fiance and the shower: That was very interesting to read, it's actually the first such case I read. She seems to be too hung up on self pleasure and ignores her partner (yet, there's no porn in the picture, she might as well be fantasizing about her fiance).

The ideal solution is to find new activities with the person you are in love with, not change the person. Both should respect each other and try to fulfill each others' needs. Relationship equals sex, if one denies it then s/he doesn't play by the rules but is being selfish.

By the way, there is no point to argue, we all state our opinions based on our experiences. Calling each other names or using personal knowledge of the other person against them when we disagree with them in a thread is rude. This place is supposed to make us think, not argue.

[Hopeless Dork]

But all that being said... I vent my frustrations from the past/present here. I vent my hurt, my insecurities. I question why guys do what they do, I generalize, I get sarcastic. My words are coming from a place of my experience and emotions, nothing more.

I know the world is made, I know that human nature will be what it is. I know that some guys are more evolved than others.... as some women are. Do I believe in a world where there is a one-woman man, that can't even see other girls beauty because they are so blinded by the love of their life. No. I am not psychotic. Do I believe in a world where a man can be respectful in the way he see's other girls beauty, and show his appreciation for the love of his life? I do, and thats what I want.

And thats what I am getting. But it wasn't gifted to me, I had to ask for it. I had to go through some embarassment and heartache , as did he. But we were both on the same team working toward the same goal - making each other happy, while still being content ourselves.

[newhere808]

I get tired of this excuse also. He "wants" is the key word here. Variety is not a need it is a want.

I guess my question would be is this belief a two way street for you? There are a lot of women out there that have sex less and less with their SO due to things getting mundane in bed, a lack of variety as it were, are we to treat them terribly for it?

One thing that kills me about the porn issue (and I do agree there are extremes that some men do fall under) is that porn is more often than not a quick fix for a horny moment. Most men worth their salt wouldn't walk up to the SO and demand some quick empty fulfillment, which is what porn/masturbation offers for the most part. I will agree that if you have a guy that is spending his time with porn and not you, then yes you have a problem, but if your gonna get mad at your guy for pleasing himself to a dirty vid while your busy or otherwise sexually unavailable, then is it right for him to get mad at you for not giving him pleasure on demand?

I think generalizing something like this is a mistake from both sides of the fence, people jump to conclusions, feelings get hurt, and more often than not it is due to a misunderstanding between the couple.

[Guest]

HD-

The problem is, by virtue of staying with these men...allowing them to continue in their behavior....well it breeds resentment and in some cases hatred. And then what happens....we develop a man hating attitude. Whereas the whole situation could have been circumvented by simply laying the law down, leaving the past behind and finding someone that more closely fits your needs.

But no. We stay. And we grow bitter. And more bitter still. And then we grow old. And then before we know it, we're older and single with way less options than we had when we were younger and too naive to just kick the deadbeat that we were with. And once we realize that we become even more bitter.

So bitter in fact that a man can't say one word in our forum without ruffling feathers and causing further resentment.

A lot of you guys seem to think that there are two teams here....women vs. the few men that choose to frequent.

It isn't my intention to perpetuate this gender divide that seems to erupt in every post with a slightly negative connotation. But it's what happens for whatever reason. Some guys will roll over and let it go, but that hasn't ever been my style.

I'm telling you guys the truth. I don't have much reason to lie. And like I said if you want to take it as an "excuse" well that is your prerogative. It'll only hurt you in the end...not me.

Stressed, I appreciate your concern, but I really don't mind the debate. In fact I welcome it. My thoughts and reasonings have served me very well in my short time and I have no shame sharing them.

Lastly - I'm not sure how many times i've mentioned it before. I don't like the effects porn has on a relationship.

But we should think twice before casting the first stone. Just as men think porn is their right, women think sex toys are their right. And before you can get on your boyfriend for desensitizing his mind with the tan in a can 18 year old, you should think twice about desensitizing your clitoris so he can't give you an orgasm the next time you two get intimate.

The picture that is painted here is far from the vision the Pure Romances and Hustler Hollywoods of the world paint. They've got us. They've got us all....preying on some distorted view of self liberation, self expression and self exploration. And the only way to get out of it is to get rid of it ourselves.

Best of luck to you ladies who have significant others who look at porn. I wouldn't like it either. Soon enough you'll figure out that you are worth more than those images on the computer screen and get the h&ll on with your life....sans the baggage.

[stressed]

HD-

But we should think twice before casting the first stone. Just as men think porn is their right, women think sex toys are their right. And before you can get on your boyfriend for desensitizing his mind with the tan in a can 18 year old, you should think twice about desensitizing your clitoris so he can't give you an orgasm the next time you two get intimate.

But what about all these women who don't want or have a sex toy? As a previous poster said, it's still a taboo for a woman to buy a toy, but it's all the more easier for men to access porn in private, without having to go to the video store to rent it anymore, it's available 24/7. I believe that most of those women who "cast the first stone" are not the ones who possess a toy. It's not fair to say that we're against porn but have our fun with the vibrator when we are alone; it's not like that.

[newhere808]

But what about all these women who don't want or have a sex toy? As a previous poster said, it's still a taboo for a woman to buy a toy, but it's all the more easier for men to access porn in private, without having to go to the video store to rent it anymore, it's available 24/7. I believe that most of those women who "cast the first stone" are not the ones who possess a toy. It's not fair to say that we're against porn but have our fun with the vibrator when we are alone; it's not like that.

Ok, then what about men who aren't watching porn for the reason that some here jump at their throats for? The fine shades of gray don't stop the generalizations, and in my mind that's the problem with a lot of the comments made.

[Fallen1]

Sorry guys, I posted a reply and had to run out for a while.

Yes, porn is a very touchy subject for me. Do I live with it now? No. It's just something that bothers me because I see so much emotional pain that it causes a lot of women.

I did however live with it in my last relationship and it did play a part in the breakup. I have a very high sex drive. I would love to have sex 24/7. My last s/o always talked about how he loved sex couldn't get enough etc etc. but he (as some women here have experienced) didn't have the energy for me but always seemed to have it for his porn. It was always a shot to the gut to come home from work and see the evidence where he had pleasured himself with porn before I got there ........ but then he didn't have the energy for me. It caused a lot of resentment on my part.

Do I have toys? No. Don't use them. I'd rather have the real thing.

I do however believe that if you are single by all means go ahead and wear it out, view porn until your eyes bleed. Once you decide to step into a serious committed relationship I think that kind of thing needs to end.

[newhere808]

I did however live with it in my last relationship and it did play a part in the breakup. I have a very high sex drive. I would love to have sex 24/7. My last s/o always talked about how he loved sex couldn't get enough etc etc. but he (as some women here have experienced) didn't have the energy for me but always seemed to have it for his porn. It was always a shot to the gut to come home from work and see the evidence where he had pleasured himself with porn before I got there ........ but then he didn't have the energy for me. It caused a lot of resentment on my part.

See, this I could understand someone being upset about, and any man that would do that is outright insane if you ask me.

[Fallen1]

See, this I could understand someone being upset about, and any man that would do that is outright insane if you ask me.

I guess once you've been hurt in this manner you will always have negative feelings towards it.

Just so you men won't think I'm completely harsh about the matter - I totally understand a man that is in a relationship where there is little to no sex involved turning to porn.