[Texinator]

he had pleasured himself with porn before I got there ........ but then he didn't have the energy for me.

Even I'm starting to get frustrated just reading all these stories.

[WildChild]

HD-

The problem is, by virtue of staying with these men...allowing them to continue in their behavior....well it breeds resentment and in some cases hatred. And then what happens....we develop a man hating attitude. Whereas the whole situation could have been circumvented by simply laying the law down, leaving the past behind and finding someone that more closely fits your needs.

I have to admit getting a chuckle out of this. If women, as a group, did this, the world would change. But for a while an awful lot of men would find themselves out in the cold. One at a time won't do it, there are too many insecure women who will simply take any man who comes along and crooks a finger at her.

The flip side, as so many of the men have expressed, is women who have no interest in sex or are nonresponsive. Yet many men, despite their frustration, continue to love and hope for change. That isn't so different. Many of us, once we come to love someone, simply cannot cast them aside, not easily. We hope to come to an understanding, that they will see their way to making changes, that we will find the words, the touch, whatever it may take to transform them into the person we first loved. Sometimes that person only existed in our minds as part of infatuation, other times they may be buried in their past dramas which came out after strong emotional connections were formed, and in some cases the relationship took a wrong turn and there is distrust and residual pain to deal with.

I'm frustrated but not bitter (well, I have my moments as we all do). Exasperated is more like it. People can be remarkably stubborn and resistant to change even if it would be in their own best interests.

[pretzel]

I have to admit getting a chuckle out of this. If women, as a group, did this, the world would change. But for a while an awful lot of men would find themselves out in the cold. One at a time won't do it, there are too many insecure women who will simply take any man who comes along and crooks a finger at her.

The flip side, as so many of the men have expressed, is women who have no interest in sex or are nonresponsive. Yet many men, despite their frustration, continue to love and hope for change. That isn't so different. Many of us, once we come to love someone, simply cannot cast them aside, not easily. We hope to come to an understanding, that they will see their way to making changes, that we will find the words, the touch, whatever it may take to transform them into the person we first loved. Sometimes that person only existed in our minds as part of infatuation, other times they may be buried in their past dramas which came out after strong emotional connections were formed, and in some cases the relationship took a wrong turn and there is distrust and residual pain to deal with.

I'm frustrated but not bitter (well, I have my moments as we all do). Exasperated is more like it. People can be remarkably stubborn and resistant to change even if it would be in their own best interests.

Sorry for coming late to the party, the blizzard left my internet connection at home rather spotty.

I agree with WC's sentiment which I bolded. For many of us who've had well documented issues in our relationships, this is one of the most important underlying issues.

But are we confusing issues?

Porn over sex?

Porn over intimacy?

Porn over passion?

Maybe I'm reading the thread wrong, but from the glances I have taken, is it an issue of settling or compromising? Both genders make the same mistake of settling. It's no different for a man to settle for someone other than their ideal mate just as easily as it is for a woman. I think that's more human nature than we would like to admit. But it also indicates an unwillingness to work at areas of weakness more than compromise does. Compromising takes much more work and sacrifice than settling does. But it also has the greatest rewards. Compromising can lead to changes in attitudes and perceptions that settling doesn't afford. Compromising can also lead to a better understanding even if you don't totally agree.

Settling you can do by yourself.

Compromising take both partners. If both partners aren't willing to compromise, then the non willing partner has settled and it will be what the relationship is.

[WildChild]

Compromising can lead to changes in attitudes and perceptions that settling doesn't afford. Compromising can also lead to a better understanding even if you don't totally agree.

Settling you can do by yourself.

Compromising take both partners. If both partners aren't willing to compromise, then the non willing partner has settled and it will be what the relationship is.

Absolutely!
It takes two to make it really work, to make it good for both. It only takes one, giving up, giving in, settling, to allow it to continue perhaps in misery for both - for years and years. In this case the least caring, least passionate one controls the relationship and neither "wins".
I'm guilty!
I always want a win/win, don't want to hurt the other and usually get myself badly hurt for a long time and in the end they get hurt too.

[pretzel]

Absolutely!
It takes two to make it really work, to make it good for both. It only takes one, giving up, giving in, settling, to allow it to continue perhaps in misery for both - for years and years. In this case the least caring, least passionate one controls the relationship and neither "wins".
I'm guilty!
I always want a win/win, don't want to hurt the other and usually get myself badly hurt for a long time and in the end they get hurt too.

Interesting poll question,

Who's settled and who hasn't.

I still don't feel I've settled but I'm ever the optimist.

And there is no quetion that the one who isn't working as part of the relationship really is driving the ship whether or not they realize it.

[Millania]

an update: wow so many replies on my thread, thank you everyone! it really helps me cope with things
I am doing the best I can
He still watches porn about 2 to 3 times per week and any time no one is home
He is still very loving toward me and initiates sex with me
I think I was just getting so jealous that he was masturbating to "thoughts of under women" my own insecurities I know
I am trying very hard to loose the weight to see if this helps me feel better
I cant lie when I leave the house and no one is home, it bothers me, because I know he is at home pleasing himself he has a HIGH drive
I am just trying very hard to accept him for who he is because I love him very much and no matter how much I tell him to stop, he wont, it will only drive him further into it
I think I am doing "ok" so far
The week we do not have any type of sex at all is when my red flag will be raised and there will be a much bigger problem
thankfully we still have sex about 3 times a week
thank you so much for everyones discussions

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

My current GF once asked me to email her about porn and I did. I have cut and pasted what I sent her here. For what it is worth.

First Male Sex Experience: 14 yrs old, hormone raging, flash of a girls leg BOING! Couldn’t control it. Happened in class. Had to often carry a book in front of me. The visual Stimulation, abstract thought of a girl…BOING. There was no intimacy, no understanding of women, no women friend just BOING. The whole world was a two dimensional porno movie with visual stimulations everywhere creating BOING in spite off and no regard to my mental intervention. This is where I learned to masturbate. This is the world of autoeroticism where that 2 dimensional world plays in my mind or on a screen.

Then there was you. No element of or anything close to the world of autoeroticism I learned so long ago. Giving pleasure through touching, sharing intimacy, receiving pleasure back. Mutual actions, at its greatest I can communicate love, cherishing, vulnerability, erotic, sensual, sexual love. It is the world of real.

They are too different worlds learned at two different times in my life and they are mutually exclusive. You will never be an alternative to my mental or visual images and your vagina will not be a substitute for my hand.

The pornography, the visual I responded to then, is the same today whether imaginary or video and it is a part of my masturbation. If you feel threaten by the porn you should feel threatened every time I masturbate.

So pornography is Okay? Complex question. The world of Autoeroticism is simple, mindless and pleasurable. Like alcohol most can sample without addiction. But some will become addicted to the simple pleasure and fall into that world and leave you behind. Only you can decide if that is what is happening. But is not the alcohol itself that is the problem.

My SO teases me constantly about masturbating and my occasion use of porn. It is always with a sly smile and I delight in being honest with her and I love her playful and trusting attitude about it. Because of this I have told her about this world and shared much. She finds it fascinating to peer into the male instinctual brain and does so without prejudice. And in doing so, our intimacy has increased. That is the good and bad of it

[Hopeless Dork]

Its cool that you share that with her, but I don't think that gives her that much insight into mans brain in general but just yours in particular. No more than her sharing her sexuality leading you any insight into all women's sexuality.

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Yep, that's fair enough. This only one mans subjective expression of his sexual experience. Her sharing her sexuality does little in helping me understand all women’s sexuality to be sure, but it does provide some insights into female sexuality upon which to build.

[Hopeless Dork]

I wasn't saying to be snippy I was saying it because everyone is SOOOoo different. One woman may smirk and pat you on the back about your use of porn, another may lock herself in the bathroom and cry for hours in the same circumstance as I've seen written here on the boards.

"I don't mind my husband watching porn... because he wants sex all the time, and I don't so I am glad he is taking the pressure off me by using that"

"I don't mind my boyfriend watching porn... because its better than him cheating, I'd rather have him fantasize about cheating than to do it in reality".

"I don't mind my man watching porn... if I act cool with it, he'll think I'm the most awesome chick ever, plus maybe he won't want it so much if I don't make a big deal out of it"


Those are a lot of the reactions I hear from women that don't fight their S.O about porn. You know the argument I've never heard?

"I actually prefer that my guy becomes aroused by other females, it makes me feel good inside when I leave the house and he races to the computer to google the nude pictures of an actress we saw in a movie last night".

Nor have I ever heard:
"I feel SO loved and special when I come home excited to have sex with him and find a wad of tissue in the trash and porn dvd rolling credits on the tv. Of course he's too tired for me now, but isn't adorable the way he finds other women so arousing, it really warms my heart".

As much as it is in many man's nature to want to be aroused by a variety of females, its in many women's nature to want to be the object of the man they love's desires. Those two natures are in direct contradiction to each other sometimes.