[liminal]

Ahhh, that's the term. Friends with benefits. Without something going on between the two it all seems kind of sad and empty and maybe kind of blah/gross.

But a friend with benefits sounds like a good friend to me. How do those things get started? It normally starts up through dating right?

About half the women I've been with were one night or short term stands and I do not have good memories of them. Had fun at the time but sex with stangers was never my thing.
Had two very good friends with benefits in my early twentys, I highly recommend those. I have very fond memories of them and still keep in touch with one, but only as a friend now.
Personally, I prefer the old fashioned relationship involvement where you make a connection.

[liminal]

Also how soon do people have sex when they are dating. I have heard that the third date is typical. But really? The third date? You may as well be strangers!

If the third date is the model of what people are doing then it sounds to me like a very casual attitude toward sex is actually the norm. (so confusing)

I recently read on a web site that if you don't make a make a move by the second date she will assume your not really attracted to her or don't have the guts for her and shelve you as a "nice guy"!

Don't believe everything you read?

[caster]

One was a set up date by some friends. They knew we were both unattached but not looking for a relationship. (We both just needed to get laid, as they said)
Anyway, we turned into friends, we were too different to become a couple but we were good friends and great together in bed. When she met her future hubby we stopped seeing each other, but she'd call me asking for a friends advise. It was neat and no one got hurt. Although the potential is always there for that.

Other one was a friend first, we became attracted to each other and one thing lead to another. That one got a little deeper but being friends we worked through it, even dated others and back to us again when we were unattached again. We still keep in touch.

Having sex with a good friend has it's benefits, as long as you maintain some bounderies. I'd prefer that to an unattached one night stand any day.

[liminal]

Firstly. One night stand don't have much fascination with me probably a way to get an STD actually.

It sounds like in those relationships you weren't looking for anything more and therefor you could just focus on others just looking for one thing.

What about those looking for ALL the options out there for love and affection from the opposite sex?

[ItsASecret]

What about those looking for ALL the options out there for love and affection from the opposite sex?

The ones looking for all possibilities should they arise go out and date. If the date does not work out then oh well at least you tried, if the date leads to sex because that was her intention the whole time then let it play out, if the date leads to "hey I had a great time we should do this again", go out and have fun again it could lead to sex at a later date, it could lead to more just casual fun time, it could lead to a relationship which you both did not expect to happen.

[caster]

When I first met my wife I was seeing my friends with benefits to fill the physical need, but I was longing for a relationship as it'd been a few years since I'd been in love.
The first time I saw her I was intriqued, she was unlike anyone I'd ever met but she was in a busy time that first week, and it was as struggle to make sure I crossed paths with her several time. I didn't want to risk her getting away without getting to know her first. Having mutual friends helped there.

I finally got her to my house a week later, we both came and went doing our normal routine and she actually stayed a couple of nights that week but we did not have sex. The following week I asked her to stay over again, we both knew we would sleep together this time. Once we got together it wasn't perfect by any stretch, actually awkward to a point. Turned out she was very inexperienced which intriqued me even more. While I was no Don Yuan, I had a fair amount of experience and she was eager to learn, and since we were attracted there was a trust involved. She realized early on that pleasing my partner was my first priority and that I would not use her and send her packing.

She told me later on had the attraction not been there she would have not slept with me but would have pursued the friendship. Same here as we did click as friends, which just goes to show you need to be friends first.
It took awhile and we became great friends first, good lovers second and a serious couple third. Been together ever since and she's still my best friend.

[liminal]

Okay, but how do you know what she wants? Thats important to know as you go out on those dates right?

The ones looking for all possibilities should they arise go out and date. If the date does not work out then oh well at least you tried, if the date leads to sex because that was her intention the whole time then let it play out, if the date leads to "hey I had a great time we should do this again", go out and have fun again it could lead to sex at a later date, it could lead to more just casual fun time, it could lead to a relationship which you both did not expect to happen.

[Hopeless Dork]

You are never going to know what she wants... we have no master key to all women that will tell you if she does this or that it means ask her for sex she's ready !! You are going to have to be willing to learn women's various individual signals. If you are out a night club... and you say its noisy and ask a woman back to your place for some more drinks... chances are if she goes home with you... she is interested in you. If you touch her leg while talking and she keeps your hand there.. touches you, etc... you go for the kiss... gauge reaction etc...

Every woman is different in how they express they want more... some will be aggressive and start making out with you ... some are going to wait for you to make the moves. But baby steps don't go from hi i'm bob to taking off your pants... whether you meet a woman in a coffee shop and ask her to a movie then back to your place... or you meet a woman at a bar and take her home with you... there is going to be interaction involved on your part to flirt, and watch and gauge her responses.

You are going to have hit and miss... some women will be like whoa whoa... easy there when you attempt to go in for more... some will respond by being pleased that you are physically into them and showing that they too are into that.

Have you ever been on a date with a woman? Again, the crawl before you walk thing...I think you need to be around women... ask women out, go on dates... and you will be able to see what women act like when they are interested and what they act like when they are not... and every degree in between.

Some may want to hang out with you, have fun... no sex... some may want to make out with you , no sex... some may want sex... some may want to go home and not see you again.

But you can't learn how to tell what a woman wants without talking to and being next to the exact woman you are talking about... not only will her mileage vary as an individual how she reacts to YOU... will be individual as well.

some women may go out with ted on friday and feel chemistry and sleep with him on the first date, they may go out with bill the following week and don't feel the same thing and end the date with a hug.

Its not like there are women that go around knowing they have sex on the first date, third date... whatever... its all usually based on their feelings in that moment with that particular guy, attraction, how well they click, etc.

[liminal]

I mean just talking to you I've already been put down with how you were talking to me earlier. I want to make my intentions clear so that I'm not being manipulative but your making me afraid of doing that. It's almost like your saying that since I can never know what value systems that the person I'm with holds I'd should just smile and pretend to be motivated by purely romantic interests because you never know what she wants anyways.

You are never going to know what she wants... we have no master key
to all women that will tell you if she does this or that it means ask her for sex she's ready !! You are going to have to be willing to learn women's various individual signals. If you are out a night club... and you say its noisy and ask a woman back to your place for some more drinks... chances are if she goes home with you... she is interested in you. If you touch her leg while talking and she keeps your hand there.. touches you, etc... you go for the kiss... gauge reaction etc...

involved on your part to flirt, and watch and gauge her responses.

You are going to have hit and miss... some women will be like whoa whoa... easy there when you attempt to go tc.

[liminal]

Liminal... I understand you are shy... I've always been labeled as shy by people that don't take the time to let me become comfortable with them...

But all the advice in the world wont help you until you get out there and TRY IT... A lot of people are afraid of rejection... A lot of people don't want to be made of fool of... but thats really how you learn.

I agree. I am not going to go into all the complexities of why it's been that way. But I've never had the feeling that people appreciate me for me.