[ChelseaRenee]

Actually I think it's quite similar.

I know that it is a psychological insecurity/problem that makes women feel the way they do about this, which is why I don't attribute it with much worth.



I don't agree.

So, if a woman is insecure, her feelings don't deserve consideration? Good to know.

And how could you not agree that a woman should expect respect from her boyfriend? That blows my mind.

[Guest]

It compromises my self worth that I'm not woken up to a blowjob and a banquet every morning. I got over that.



And whilhelm, let's look at this mathematically rather than gramatically:

"You don't use your energy to make your partner not want to leave you."
subtract on each side of the equation
"You use your energy to make your partner want to leave you."

Even if it's not a technical grammatical double negative, it is a mathematical one. I know this was probably just a slip up on your part, but you can't pretend that's not what it means.


And whilhelm, you can't really handle discussion very well can you? You feel compelled to bring irrelevent insults and patronisation into it. Perhaps if you controlled your arguments slightly better people would listen to you.

insults? did i insult you? wasn't intended. i certainly never billed myself as a skilled communicator.

it's not technical grammar & it wasn't a slip on anyone's part. you made your error on purpose. you're assigning meaning to my statement that isn't there. you can't just subtract words that are positive & negative as though they were numbers on a side of an equation.

they aren't. my statement is as it stands. we don't use our energy to make our partner do or not do anything (is that better for you?). your advice to this or any other girl that she should expend her energy trying to make her partner not want to leave is silly. that's a worthless expense of energy.

[Guest]

I know that it is a psychological insecurity/problem that makes women feel the way they do about this, which is why I don't attribute it with much worth.

what, exactly, is the psychological problem you're referring to?

[anonymouswhitefemale]

So, if a woman is insecure, her feelings don't deserve consideration? Good to know.

And how could you not agree that a woman should expect respect from her boyfriend? That blows my mind.

Feelings always need consideration, but a baseless feeling like lack of self confidence can't demand a drasticly life changing response.

And stop twisting my words, I never said that a woman shouldn't have respect, which they obviously should. YOU just think it's disrespectful to watch porn, I don't.



whilhelm, persistant patronization is an insult.

your advice to this or any other girl that she should expend her energy trying to make her partner not want to leave is silly. that's a worthless expense of energy.

You obviously don't value your relationships if you expend no energy in keeping your relationship together.


And the psychological problem I'm talking about it paranoia stemming from low self-esteem.


(Sorry if I'm getting blunter, I'm getting bored of making the same points over and over).

[ChelseaRenee]

Feelings always need consideration, but a baseless feeling like lack of self confidence can't demand a drasticly life changing response.

If you deem stopping looking at porn a "drastically life changing response" to low self-esteem, I think porn is a bigger problem for you than you think.

And stop twisting my words, I never said that a woman shouldn't have respect, which they obviously should. YOU just think it's disrespectful to watch porn, I don't.

Agreed.

(Sorry if I'm getting blunter, I'm getting bored of making the same points over and over).

If you're bored, stop responding. Problem solved.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Pfff, **** this.

I came to this thread because it seemed like none of you actually knew how a male mind worked, and I thought I'd tell you. I can't be bothered to constantly back up and fortify my arguments, DEFENDING it to a bunch of you who are determined to attack my point of view. Maybe you should actually read and think about what I say rather than see how you can attack it to justify your own opinion.

Bottom line is, all (basically) men watch porn. Get over it.

If they say they don't, they're lying.


AND, if they don't watch porn, how are you so sure that every erotic thought they ever have is of you? Because it isn't. I'm sorry on behalf of my gender, but that's the way we're wired. Maybe you should try taking men as they are instead of always trying to change them.

[Guest]

boy, anon. i'm not sure how to make peace with you. when i disagree with your point, you say i'm attacking you. when i accept the things you yourself indicate you're doing & wish you well with them, you take it as an insult.

not sure if you're still around. if you are, i have not intended to insult you.

anon, you're very wrong about this. all men do not watch porn. yes, we're wired a certain way. we're visual & we have a tendancy to let our eyes wander. porn appeals to that tendency.

what amazes me is that you - and so many others - think we should celebrate that tendency, just because it's natural. there are so many characteristics of humanity that are natural, yet we fight them - rightfully so.

it's natural to hold grudges. in unnatural to forgive. it's natural to be selfish. it's unnatural to be polite.

and so on.

we accept that it's a good thing to "rewire" those natural wirings.

but when it comes to men & sex, we think our natural tendency to roam the earth in search of fresh, young a*s is an excuses in and of itself to do just that.

the process of becoming a productive citizen involves retraining our natural tendency to be virtuous. the process of becoming a good husband involves the same.

many of us are born with genetic predispositions to alcoholism. not a justification to pursue being an alcoholic.

if you don't want your views challenged, don't share them.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Still here.

It was renee ****ing me off a bit.

If you are indeed a man, you are an extreme exception.


It's natural to eat, maybe we should fight that urge. I suppose we are just too different in our opinions here to be able to meet in the middle. There's not really much more that we can say to each other, I say it's natural, fine etc. and you have a pseudoreligious belief that it is evil and something to be defeated.

I stand by everything I've said, I would finish with a girl who's too hung up in her insecurities to allow the male to account for his usually higher sex drive.

You don't watch porn, that's great for you. It doesn't make everyone who does scum or pigs. And if you women hop from man to man to find someone who doens't, all you'll wind up with is a liar. In my opinion.

I'm quite a hedonist, I like physical pleasure, drink, drugs etc. Things that are fun in life don't exist to be avoided, they exist to enhance our lives.

Oh, and in other threads I've been reading here, it doesn't seem like you (not personally, just overall opinion) treat fantasising about another man whilst you shag as cheating, just something that will admittedly happen since people get bored.


Peace is made, though in future it wouldn't hurt you to word things differently, as your discussion style is generally quite patronising, and you feel that your opinion makes you better than everyone else.

[Guest]

Ok, Ok. i could grant you some of that. i certainly don't think i'm better than anyone. this is an assumption that i find people often jump to just about anytime you take a stand that has any moral or value-laden influence.

you need to understand - you've jumped into a discussion that has been going on for a while. not a problem. but there's been a lot of ground covered. you mentioned that you thought you would come in & explain how the male mind works. not belittling you - but your ideas (certainly they are unique to you & your way of explaining them) are not new at all to me. i've been involved in this debate for years. i have a long history with pornography, addiction & the personal, moral, and social struggle over the issue. i've done a lot of research.

am i an expert? of course not. but my convictions are very well-grounded in research, observation, and personal experience.

if i come off as overly confident - well, some of that is my personality, maybe. but it largely just demonstrates the solidity of my position on this issue. i have an unshakable perspective, forged by work & time.

am i closed minded? some would say so. i'm very open to new ideas. again, i'm not belittling anyone here - but i have yet to see a new argument on behalf of porn. i've encountered them all, considered them, read opinions on either side.

i've never seen any compelling argument to porn's favor. the best i've seen is someone who will acknowledge it for what it is, but simply claim the civil liberty to do it anyway.

most importantly, i've experienced porn firsthand. i've watched a lot of porn. i know what it looks like. when i read an opinion or a report or the summary of a study done on the subject - i can filter what i'm reading against the real deal. i've held the beast in my hands - know what it feels like, how it acts, know it's allure.

my interest is primarily in the women who are, at best, confounded by it - and, at worst, shattered by it. i believe i have something to offer them, especially in the face of what i believe is the worst advice - yours. no disrespect intended. just matter-of-fact. i'm sure you might say the same about mine.

i see porn as an epidemic. it is destroyong families at an alarming rate, primarily because it is becoming more widely accepted at an equally alarming rate. never have so many people willfully accepted a venemous cobra into their laps, all the while being bitten & poisoned.

the aftermath is frightful. men are demasculated by a flower that looked & smelled beautiful, but turned out to be toxic. women are left holding shards of the broken trust that was pieced together time & time again by guys who just couldn't stop burning themselves - over and over.

children are logging online & able to see the most troublesome and deviant sex - before they can even ride a bike. and this is what's influencing the sexuality that is developing in young teens. it doesn't matter who's fault it is - parents not paying attention or pornographers not caring. what matters is that there is actually a market for it, which makes it accessible to kids.

and the pornographers, anon, know exactly what they're doing. moreso than the viewers. they are aware that their product is addictive & they are aware of how to make it stick. they also know that the nature of addiction is to progress. an alcoholic needs progressively more alcohol over the years.

porn addicts need progressively - not more porn - stronger porn, over the years. they design their product with this in mind.

it is a cancer & i am very interested in its demise. failing that, i'm interested in helping people, especially those who are hurt by it, to remove its deceptive guise & view it in its vulnerable and naked state, for what it truly is.

people will approach a lion if it's dressed as a puppy. all you have to do is make it roar, and they'll react appropriately. my interest - my obsession, as hotdogg notes - is in repeatedly revealing the ugly truth about porn.

sure, i have some idiosyncratic qualities - depending on the group i'm compared with. i do believe men should strive for excellence. i think there are natural tendencies that need to be tamed, not nurtured.

but i'm not the church lady. i like all the things you like.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Well, that's one of the better-put posts you've made.


I do indeed understand the negative aspects of pornography. Although the problem is maybe not with porn but with the human condition.

You're gonna get a lot of honesty here:

For various reasons I was always a loner, growing up, with NO female friends or interested parties. I kissed a couple of girls, none of it meaning anything, until I lost my virginity at 21. I had no youthful sexual innocence. All I had was a peaked sex drive (males peak at 18, women at 30 or so) and myself. Fanstasy and porn being the only release, I probably developed some sort of addiction for sexual release. Although it's difficult and perhaps over the top to call it an addiction, as it like saying that you're addicted to food and air.


Pornography (and indeed fantasy) does indeed progress, to harder (or at least different) things, to prevent boredom. This is much the same I'd imagine as real sex, since people often get bored with their own sex lives.

To be honest, this would've all probably turned out a bit differently had I had some loving partner when I was 16.

All of this basically means that my mind is a dirtier place than most, and my sex drive is still pretty full-on. Having sexual relations with a partner is great, and obviously better than sitting on your own watching imagary that is basically as degrading to yourself as it is to the performer, you know that moment of depressing clarity after an orgasm.. To be honest though, the sexual services that I recieve are not enough to quell my sex drive. If you have a stressed, tired girlfriend, she obviously won't be able to keep up with a young man close to his sexual peak. This doesn't mean that I will slow to her pace.

Another issue, I guess, is that the actual sexual stimulation that I recieve isn't as intense as what I can accomplish myself. There's a limit to how long I can let my girl work, before I feel guilty since she probably isn't enjoying it, getting jaw-ache, or whatever. She also can't handle sex for prolonged periods of time, liking it fast and then to be over. With that little time of actual stimulation, orgasms are not a fantastic thing.

Therefore the need for me to be able to satisfy myself as well. I can happily entertain myself for an hour, being an extremely gratifying sexual experience, albeit a completely different kind.

I can see that porn is a downward slope, and one that should be approached with caution, however it's not something that I'll just dismiss since I need satisfaction, and I'm not going to force more sex on my woman than she can handle, and if she want's to, say, be present while I masturbate, that puts again a level of pressure that reduces enjoyment.


In the posts beforehand I've pointed out that it is not anything like cheating, and explained why this is. This is an issue which a man faces himself, whether it kills and consumes his sexual appetite. It has not done this with me. It isn't something that the woman should get involved in. If it makes her feel ****, then it's her self confidence that needs work. If she isn't getting enough, then, and ONLY THEN, does it concer her. In my opinion.

If she's feeling jealous, she should "put out" more. But even then, a man needs his time alone. Unless the woman is ****ING good at what she does.