[Guest]

well folks, all i can offer is that when "trying to be cool with it" proves not to work, you'll need to get to the root of the problem, and it probably won't be about sex.

just for the record, there has yet to be one documented case of ignoring a psychological problem that actually solved the problem. it's not really any different from a pysiological problem. ignoring it usually just makes it worse & causes other problems in addition to the first one.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

First off, I am a male using my girlfriends account, I saw this thread and felt I'd add my (probably wrong) opinion.


Males most often have a stronger sex drive than their girlfriends. The female might happily go without any sex for 3 days, however that is certainly not true for the males... If the guy approached the girl every time he felt horny, he'll mostly get batted away, which is not a pleasant feeling, and adds frustration into your life.

Is the male to downscale his sex drive to accomodate for their partners slower one? Is the argument here with fantasies and masturbation as well as pornography? Is it equally wrong if the guy didn't have any porn and generated it in his mind? Is it wrong if they watch a pornography that you both made together? Is it the rule that the male must share every orgasm he has with his partner?

Sex and masturbation are two different things, one of which doesn't eliminate the other. Sex can be extremely fulfilling, but so is an hour of masturbation, without having to think about what someone else present is feeling/thinking, so you can concentrate on fully indulging yourself.

I think that no matter how satisfied you keep your boyfriend, there are times when he'll want to do things on his own. And as many others have stated, males find looking at sexy stuff sexy... It doesn't mean that you're thinking "I'd love to wake up with [pornstar] and do the crossword with a cup of tea", you don't even think of them at all. It's just shallow, visual stimalation, and a pure extraction from reality. I don't see it as cheating at all.

- - - -

I told my girlfriend that I watched porn, and watched some with her. She doesn't like more male-oriented porn but she likes bondage stuff, so when we watch it together that's what we watch. It is a good way to set a sordid mood, provoke arousal etc.

Anyway, it's something I felt like I had to be upfront about, as if there was a problem with that then I wouldn't see it as a relationship with much future promise, as the sort of girls that force you to stop watching porn are the same that will go through your phone messages when you're in the shower. It's difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't trust you, and doesn't respect you/your privacy. You wonder why you would want to spend your time with that person.

When a guy makes a commitment to a girl, fair enough he won't cheat on her, etc. However, it doesn't sign over the freedom to live your life as you want to.

Also, when confronted about it in an aggressive manner, of course the guys will say they don't or something, because the option you give them is: A- Tell the truth, and suffer screaming/shouting/crying for hours, when it isn't justifiable, and you know in your heart that there is no problem with it, or B- lie.

I don't lie, because I very rarely lie, but many men will go for option B. Also, women are far more judmental in these regards than men are. A man will try to accomodate for the sexual needs (whatever they are), or the woman, although the woman will judge and probably punish/guilt trip the guy for his moment of honesty.


I'm sure many of you will attack me, but I'm just trying to give you a fully honest male opinion of this topic.

And my final words are, if a girlfriend gave me an ultimatum to never watch porn (and by that rationale, never to fantasize, and loss of the freedom of thought), I think I would feel compelled to break up with her.

In a partner you want a considerate companion, not an insecure paranoid prison of a relationship.


Sorry if this has hurt anyones feelings.

[ChelseaRenee]

First off, I am a male using my girlfriends account, I saw this thread and fet I'd add my (probably wrong) opinion.


Males most often have a stronger sex drive than their girlfriends. The female might happily go without any sex for 3 days, however that is certainly not true for the males... If the guy approached the girl every time he felt horny, he'll mostly get batted away, which is not a pleasant feeling, and adds frustration into your life.

Is the male to downscale his sex drive to accomodate for their partners slower one? Is the argument here with fantasies and masturbation as well as pornography? Is it equally wrong if the guy didn't have any porn and generated it in his mind? Is it wrong if they watch a pornography that you both made together? Is it the rule that the male must share every orgasm he has with his partner?

Sex and masturbation are two different things, one of which doesn't eliminate the other. Sex can be extremely fulfilling, but so is an hour of masturbation, without having to think about what someone else present is feeling/thinking, so you can concentrate on fully indulging yourself.

I think that no matter how satisfied you keep your boyfriend, there are times when he'll want to do things on his own. And as many others have stated, males find looking at sexy stuff sexy... It doesn't mean that you're thinking "I'd love to wake up with [pornstar] and do the crossword with a cup of tea", you don't even think of them at all. It's just shallow, visual stimalation, and a pure extraction from reality. I don't see it as cheating at all.

- - - -

I told my girlfriend that I watched porn, and watched some with her. She doesn't like more male-oriented porn but she likes bondage stuff, so when we watch it together that's what we watch. It is a good way to set a sordid mood, provoke arousal etc.

Anyway, it's something I felt like I had to be upfront about, as if there was a problem with that then I wouldn't see it as a relationship with much future promise, as the sort of girls that force you to stop watching porn are the same that will go through your phone messages when you're in the shower. It's difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't trust you, and doesn't respect you/your privacy. You wonder why you would want to spend your time with that person.

When a guy makes a commitment to a girl, fair enough he won't cheat on her, etc. However, it doesn't sign over the freedom to live your life as you want to.

Also, when confronted about it in an aggressive manner, of course the guys will say they don't or something, because the option you give them is: A- Tell the truth, and suffer screaming/shouting/crying for hours, when it isn't justifiable, and you know in your heart that there is no problem with it, or B- lie.

I don't lie, because I very rarely lie, but many men will go for option A. Also, women are far more judmental in these regards than men are. A man will try to accomodate for the sexual needs (whatever they are), or the woman, although the woman will judge and probably punish/guilt trip the guy for his moment of honesty.


I'm sure many of you will attack me, but I'm just trying to give you a fully honest male opinion of this topic.

And my final words are, if a girlfriend gave me an ultimatum to never watch porn (and by that rationale, never to fantasize, and loss of the freedom of thought), I think I would feel compelled to break up with her.

In a partner you want a considerate companion, not an insecure paranoid prison of a relationship.


Sorry if this has hurt anyones feelings.

Why would it hurt our feelings? I really don't think you have that power over anyone here. And please, don't call it a male opinion. Call it YOUR opinion. Don't tack your...opinions onto those more intelligent than you.

There are so many things I disagree with in your post, and I'm not going to address all of them. But, saying that a girl who has a problem with porn is the kind that would check his phone, e-mail etc. is ignorant. What he says to other people and what he masturbates to are such different things. I have NEVER snooped through his phone, e-mail, computer history, anything. We have an honest relationship, and the only dishonesty that's ever occurred is the time before I told him my feelings about porn. Now, there are NO secrets.

If your girlfriend's fine with you watching porn, good for her. I'm sure you just love it. But what if she wasn't? You saying you'd feel compelled to break up with her is SO wrong. She was hurt by you getting off to the thought of other women, and that is just so outrageous and selfish of her that you wouldn't be able to stand her anymore? I feel your pain.

Freedom of thought, come on! You're with her, so you're FREE to think about HER. I'm sure she is secure with herself if she's not being bothered by your watching porn, but do you honestly think it makes her feel great to think about it? Your getting sexual gratification to the thought of having sex with another woman? Now, I know that's not what ALL men think about while masturbating to porn ( I know of many cases where they say want mine said, that it's just a channel to think of doing those things with their girlfriends/wives/etc.), but that's not what you said you do. So I'm left to believe that you ARE thinking about having sex with the women you watch, which is whatever, your choice. But I'm SURE not one she likes. How would you like it if she masturbated and got off to the thought of other men? Having sex with them, going down on them? How secure does it make you feel? A little inadequate, maybe? This is not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm curious to see if you'll be honest here.

[ChelseaRenee]

Oh, and I'd just like to add to every one who's ever said you'd rather have your significant other watch porn than cheat- that's your way of making peace with something you're uncomfortable with, don't kid yourself. Men are not insatiable creatures. A penis is not an excuse to act irrationally, and no, don't jump to your little keyboards to say "Watching porn is not acting irrationally!" but cheating is, and many of you like to say "I'd rather he watched porn than cheated!" It's not like he has to do one or the other. He can do NEITHER and be perfectly healthy and happy. Masturbation does not automatically mean porn is involved. My boyfriend masturbates without porn all the time, and he's perfectly happy. So if your boyfriend/husband ever says "I'd rather watch porn than cheat!" tell him to shut up, it's not like he has to choose between one or the other.

[Guest]

as long as you can tolerate knowing that i disagree - and i'm going to show you what i disagree with - you won't feel like i'm attacking you.

i appreciate your posting. i do think you're wrong - though i think you've done a great job of explaining yourself.

let me offer a few reactions, for whatever they're worth:

"It's just shallow, visual stimalation, and a pure extraction from reality."

this is the heart of the issue. porn offers what a real girl can't, or won't. i'm so glad you said this. it's such a profound, simple point. it's an extraction from reality.

and a powerful one. it's the use of another person (porn performers), in absolute disregard of that person's "self" (her desires, likes, dislikes, dreams, feelings, etc.), in order to get off. she's an object. just a living, breathing masturbatory toy.

and by clicking in & out of a million free sites, she can become whatever she needs to be to specifically address your whimsical fantasy of the moment. she's blond, she small, she's tall, then short, she does anal, she gets slapped, she slaps you, she wearsa plaid skirt - whatever.

your interaction with porn is so removed from reality that reality can't begin to compare.

your girlfriend has needs. she's feeling a certain way, she likes certain things, she doesn't want to do this or that. your horny, she's worried & wants you to hold her, etc.

porn is all about YOU. your relationship with your girlfriend is all about the two of you.

indulging the first one feeds a fire that can easily consume the second one. there's nothing harmless about this extraction from reality, and - as you said, "concentrate on fully indulging yourself."

a healthy relationship leads you to do the opposite.

"In a partner you want a considerate companion..."

bingo. this is why i'm confused by your other statements:

Is the male to downscale his sex drive to accomodate for their partners slower one?

If the guy approached the girl every time he felt horny, he'll mostly get batted away, which is not a pleasant feeling, and adds frustration into your life

I think that no matter how satisfied you keep your boyfriend, there are times when he'll want to do things on his own.

When a guy makes a commitment to a girl, fair enough he won't cheat on her, etc. However, it doesn't sign over the freedom to live your life as you want to.

i hear you call for people to be considerate, and then you systematically whine about having to forego the things YOU want to do. it sounds to me like you meant to say "compliant," not considerate. or maybe, "complacent."

you certainly don't want anyone interupting your pusruit of your own happiness. that's evident. and i'm not judging you for that - go for it.

but that is antithetical to what healthy relationships are built upon.

so you get frustrated when you want sex & she doesn't. you'll get frustrated when you want to watch the game & junior has a PTA meeting. suck it up.

being a man is all about handling frustration & disappointment - and nothing about chasing your own desires & avoiding frustration at all costs.

"A man will try to accomodate for the sexual needs (whatever they are), of the woman, although the woman will judge and probably punish/guilt trip the guy for his moment of honesty."

i think you're probably right about this, to a degree. it's true for many relationships - but not because women are more judgemental. i think a true soul-searching will reveal that men do the same, just not regarding sex. in fact, you're doing it now. your guilting women into being OK with porn.

sex takes on a meaning for women that men don't necessarily experience. this is no one's fault & it doesn't imply that women are bad & men are good.

it defines the very thing that porn robs you of: communication.

so instead of working through that barrier - you slip off into a corner & beat off with nameless, faceless porn stars who won't challenge you or force you to have to work through anything. they just exist to satisfy your desires - kind of like your mother did when you were an infant.

rather than climb the hill that makes you strong, you go around because it's easier & requires NO strength.

mediocrity, friend. time to crawl out of the crib & quit demanding your needs be met.

please don't offer your view as an honest male response. it's your honest response & i respect your right to it. but thankfully it hasn't taken hold of us all just yet.

all in respect - no attack intended & i welcome your response.

[the dude]

a man would never say that.

BUSTED.

Whilma

[Guest]

dude. go settle in for tea & crumpets or whatever you two do when you're not watching porn.

real men can face their passions & desires with confidence - and control them. you should try. it'll be tough at first - kind of like puberty.

but you'll emerge a stronger, more capable man. it'll be well worth it - for you & anyone who'll ever need to lean on you.

a guy who's a slave to his desires is like a hammer that's locked in the toolbox. really not much use in times of crisis.

you're a soldier - what good is a guy in combat if he folds every time things get hard? if he sits down every time he gets tired? if he melts every time there's heat?

is that who you want next to you in the foxhole? same is true in life. just because it's eaier to get off with porn & it's easier to think about yourself without caring about anyone else's needs - well it's always easier to let someone else to the work for you.

but that's not what it is to be a man - especially one who's married.

step up, dude. the world is full of wet noodles who bow & bend to whatever their desires scream for. we need a few more real men who'll stare down their passions & let them know who's in charge.

leave the minor leagues & get in the battle.

[the dude]

i am sorry but you talk complete bull.

you are a woman.

you do not have a clue about the way men think.

[ChelseaRenee]

The Dude, you have no idea how REAL men think.
Sad.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Why would it hurt our feelings? I really don't think you have that power over anyone here. And please, don't call it a male opinion. Call it YOUR opinion. Don't tack your...opinions onto those more intelligent than you.

Perhaps I was being overly sensitive, I apologise. Sorry also for clarifying that my (male) opinion is the other side of the coin to what most of the discussion I've read. Never hurts to hear the opposing side. I wasn't trying to tack my opinions onto anyone else, less intelligent or more. I can only assume I did hurt someones feelings, since you feel the need to baselessly insult my intelligence in your first paragraph.

There are so many things I disagree with in your post, and I'm not going to address all of them. But, saying that a girl who has a problem with porn is the kind that would check his phone, e-mail etc. is ignorant. What he says to other people and what he masturbates to are such different things. I have NEVER snooped through his phone, e-mail, computer history, anything. We have an honest relationship, and the only dishonesty that's ever occurred is the time before I told him my feelings about porn. Now, there are NO secrets.

Ok, that is a bit ignorant (at least a point which I know is not 100% true), I'm sure it's not always the case, however that's what my limited experience has shown me. I basically mean that most of the time the feelings are similar, distrust, paranoia etc. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to be in a relationship in which I'm controlled/regulated. Once you start telling someone how they can/can't act/think a level of mutual respect is broken. I'm not going to tell my partner how she can do things, and I'm not going to let her tell me. (oh, as an aside, how can you truly believe there are no secrets between you when you have busted him lying to you? when he see's a beautiful woman down the street does he tell you what he's thinking?)... About a point I make later I can also garuntee that he hasn't shared every aspect of his sexual thoughts, for fear of you being angry/disappointed etc etc.

If your girlfriend's fine with you watching porn, good for her. I'm sure you just love it. But what if she wasn't? You saying you'd feel compelled to break up with her is SO wrong. She was hurt by you getting off to the thought of other women, and that is just so outrageous and selfish of her that you wouldn't be able to stand her anymore? I feel your pain.

If I was in a relationship with a woman who didn't give me the respect to act as I wished, I would indeed break up with her, although equally likely is that I tell her that I won't do everything she says, then she dumps me. It doesn't matter, for me, once freedom is lost, it's coming to an end. Is it SO wrong?

What if I told my partner she couldn't go horse riding, is it SO wrong for her to break up with me? And it's not the thought of "other" women as such, as it is the thought of "woman".

Freedom of thought, come on! You're with her, so you're FREE to think about HER. I'm sure she is secure with herself if she's not being bothered by your watching porn, but do you honestly think it makes her feel great to think about it? Your getting sexual gratification to the thought of having sex with another woman? Now, I know that's not what ALL men think about while masturbating to porn ( I know of many cases where they say want mine said, that it's just a channel to think of doing those things with their girlfriends/wives/etc.), but that's not what you said you do. So I'm left to believe that you ARE thinking about having sex with the women you watch, which is whatever, your choice. But I'm SURE not one she likes.

So... there is no freedom of thought, I see...

Whilst I try my upmost never to hurt her, I think it's mostly in her head if she decides to be hurt by me watching porn. It's not something I'm willing to give up simply because someone doesn't have enough self-confidence. Also, like I've said, you masturbate to the "female form", if you know any Plato, the form of woman. For example you like chairs rather than a specific chair. Is the fact that you like chairs going to offend your office-chair? I don't think so.

How would you like it if she masturbated and got off to the thought of other men? Having sex with them, going down on them? How secure does it make you feel? A little inadequate, maybe? This is not a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm curious to see if you'll be honest here.

It wouldn't bother me. Truthfully. In fact I'd feel better for her to do what she wanted than for her to regulate her thought pattern through some sort of loyalty or guilt. Thought and reality are different things, I don't see thought as cheating. I'm curious to see if you'll tell me I'm being dishonest here...


================================================== ==================================================

It's the use of another person (porn performers), in absolute disregard of that person's "self" (her desires, likes, dislikes, dreams, feelings, etc.), in order to get off. she's an object. just a living, breathing masturbatory toy.

yep, one who get's paid, and one who chose to follow that path. Let's not start the discussion on whether porn stars are abused, some are, some aren't, some are happy, some aren't.

your girlfriend has needs. she's feeling a certain way, she likes certain things, she doesn't want to do this or that. your horny, she's worried & wants you to hold her, etc. porn is all about YOU. your relationship with your girlfriend is all about the two of you.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about it. And if I'm to believe what I'm told I make my woman happier than any other man has ever done.

indulging the first one feeds a fire that can easily consume the second one. there's nothing harmless about this extraction from reality, and - as you said, "concentrate on fully indulging yourself."

I can see the potential truth in this, however it is not FACT. It is not certain that that will happen.

As for me, my woman is always fully satiated, and I have some left over sex drive for myself. I feel that every now and then I should be able to please myself, as sex is mostly about pleasing the woman (at least for me, though that's not to say I don't enjoy it).

i hear you call for people to be considerate, and then you systematically whine about having to forego the things YOU want to do. it sounds to me like you meant to say "compliant," not considerate. or maybe, "complacent." you certainly don't want anyone interupting your pusruit of your own happiness. that's evident. and i'm not judging you for that - go for it. but that is antithetical to what healthy relationships are built upon.

I don't think it is considerate to stop someone you care about from doing things for selfish ego-boosting reasons. Maybe compliance is considerate. I know that I never stop my woman from doing anything she wants to do. So she has my compliance, I suppose it has to be one sided though...

I don't have enough happiness in this world. Why should I let things stand in my way of it? I don't see how an individual persuit of happiness can preclude you from sharing a healthy relationship with someone else. I'm very independant, maybe more so than my partner, I don't need to share everything in my life. I don't need to do this to maintain a relationship, either.

so you get frustrated when you want sex & she doesn't. you'll get frustrated when you want to watch the game & junior has a PTA meeting. suck it up. being a man is all about handling frustration & disappointment - and nothing about chasing your own desires & avoiding frustration at all costs.

Erm, to be honest, you're starting to lose me here. So I get frustrated when I want sex, and she doesn't. When she sleeps, I discharge my sex drive, allowing me to actually function with a clear head. I do suck it up, it's not like I rape her, I just make other arrangements for myself, which is completely within my right. Your sport and looking after a kid analogy has nothing to do with any of this, and your insinuation that I could not deal with looking after a child because of my stance on masturbation is as pointless as it is misdirected. Suck it up? How about YOU suck it up for not being the center of attention all the time.

I like how a few women in this thread have telling us men what it means to be a real man. To be honest, "a real man" isn't something that exists, and certainly isn't something that can be defined by something that a woman wants. I'm sure you'd jump down my throat pretty quick if I started telling you a "real woman" must always be receptive to sex, or cannot masturbate or something.

So, kindly shut up about a man/real man distinction, as every man is real.

"A man will try to accomodate for the sexual needs (whatever they are), of the woman, although the woman will judge and probably punish/guilt trip the guy for his moment of honesty."

i think you're probably right about this, to a degree. it's true for many relationships - but not because women are more judgemental. i think a true soul-searching will reveal that men do the same, just not regarding sex. in fact, you're doing it now. your guilting women into being OK with porn.

Meh, at the moment you're guilting men into NOT liking porn, if I respond, I'm guilt tripping you...

Well, the world's swings and roundabouts.

so instead of working through that barrier - you slip off into a corner & beat off with nameless, faceless porn stars who won't challenge you or force you to have to work through anything. they just exist to satisfy your desires - kind of like your mother did when you were an infant. rather than climb the hill that makes you strong, you go around because it's easier & requires NO strength. mediocrity, friend. time to crawl out of the crib & quit demanding your needs be met.

/me shakes my head - ah, that was nice and patronizing. What right do you have? I can be patronizing as well, look:

"aaaaaaw, little girl can't get over the fact that she isn't the center of the universe eh? Someone needs to grow up and face some realities. Aw, poor baby, if you don't satisfy your partners sexual needs he'll satisfy his own. Quit demanding that everything needs to be your way."

As well, I could equally well say "rather than climb the hill that makes you strong, you go around because it's easier & requires NO strength." in response to you needing to be the only thing on your partners mind ever. Get stronger and get some self confidence in yourself instead of taking the easy route of punishing your man.

please don't offer your view as an honest male response. it's your honest response & i respect your right to it. but thankfully it hasn't taken hold of us all just yet.

My response IS an honest male response. Should I not label it as it is? Obviously everything that anyone ever writes on the internet is an OPINION, and I hope you haven't got stuck in the hole of thinking that when someone writes something, they write it as fact instead of opinion. Obviously my opinion hasn't taken hold of most women's mind's, but I'll bet I'm with the majority of males.




I also notice that none of my points were answered, only attacks against my point of view. Perhaps when you next respond you could respond to some of them...


Such as, is masturbation wrong? Is it okay if he thinks of you? Or does the woman ALWAYS have her hand at the tap of the male sexaul needs...




Sooo.... In the end I'd say it's more that you just don't have enough self-confidence, and that you don't trust your man to want to stay commited to you. Stop fighting about minor points like porn and use that energy to make your man not want to leave you.