[Quest]

There is no set definition, but mainstream bondage would be using scarves and blindfolds, maybe handcuffs and some vanilla bondage kits. The stuff you describe would definitely be more for the person whose into that scene. Like rosekitten suggested, visit the local meet up. You will be suprised how many "normal" people practice this lifestyle. For most people, this is just something that they enjoy in addition to other sexual activities. Just because they move in the BDSM circle, doesn't mean that is the only thing they practice.

I know BDSM has become a catch all phrase for non vanilla sex, but not everybody pratices all aspects of it. There are many people into just bondage and dominance, and not the SM part. Actually, they are very different things that just somehow seem to get lumped together all the time. These meet ups will be filled with people who practice this lifestyle exclusively to people just checking it out and exploring. Its a great way to meet other people with liberal views on sex.

I really don't think that would be a good idea. My views on sex are not liberal outside of likeing bondage. When I said 6months that's really an approximate time I feel I would need to get to know a girl to get to the point of actually having sex. I highly value the act and I have no intention of having sex with a girl who I feel won't be able to develop a relationship with me. A requirement for a relationship to develop would be being OK with bondage.

It's rather paradoxical that the females who are most likely to be interested in this, I have no interest in forming a relationship with.

It's also rather paradoxical that regardless of when I tell a girl about my fetish I will likely still be at a loss. If I tell her soon then it's going to come off as bizzare/too forward particularly because of such a short time I have seen her, if I wait to tell her it's going to come off as if I was hideing it and would also likely end the relationship supposeing that she didn't like it and it's something that I want.

Quest, BDSM is just a catch all for all aspects of the lifestyle. My husband and I are only into the Domme/Sub aspect of it. A lot of bandage, and shibari is a new addition to our interests. You'll find sane and crazy people in the community, because there are sane and crazy people everywhere. I would define light bondage as silk scarves, light blindfolds, and very loose restraints. As far as your comment that control is an illusion, that is only true if you have no respect for the people you're involved with. My husband can overpower me, but if he does so in a way that is abusive, I will leave his *** in a heartbeat. I may not have as much physical control as he does, but I do still have control.

I dislike the term lifestyle as lifestyle I feel implies something other then what I want. I don't want a bondage "lifestyle" lol, I want a normal lifestyle + bondage. I have no interest in socially talking to other people about my sex life or being part of any groups. I don't really consider loose restraints to be light bondage, I consider them to be fake bondage. I really care about details.

When restrained a female isn't really loseing any physical control. I believe your mental control is also the same. I guess you could argue there are other changes in a persons psychology when they have another person directly physically restrained but I don't think that is the case for myself. Fear of me doing something outside of what I and a hypothetical female partner agreeded upon doing I feel is unfounded as if I wanted to do something without her OK, I certainly could without her being initally restrained.

Anyway in my case the girl would really always be in control, which is kind of funny. Females(or humans in general) crying is an instant erection killer.

[rosekitten]

[QUOTE=Quest;316834

It's rather paradoxical that the females who are most likely to be interested in this, I have no interest in forming a relationship with.

[/quote]

That's a fairly presumptuous statement. What makes you think that?

It's also rather paradoxical that regardless of when I tell a girl about my fetish I will likely still be at a loss. If I tell her soon then it's going to come off as bizzare/too forward particularly because of such a short time I have seen her, if I wait to tell her it's going to come off as if I was hideing it and would also likely end the relationship supposeing that she didn't like it and it's something that I want.

I don't think it would be a guaranteed deal breaker to wait. If a relationship is strong and healthy, mentioning that you're interested in bondage shouldn't be too huge of an issue (there are exceptions, certainly, but hopefully at 6 months you would have a decent understanding of the woman you were dating).

I dislike the term lifestyle as lifestyle I feel implies something other then what I want. I don't want a bondage "lifestyle" lol, I want a normal lifestyle + bondage. I have no interest in socially talking to other people about my sex life or being part of any groups. I don't really consider loose restraints to be light bondage, I consider them to be fake bondage. I really care about details.

It's part of your sexual lifestyle desires. At any rate, my husband and I have a D/S relationship, and you wouldn't know it just by seeing us out in public. I think I may not have been clear enough on loose bondage. My husband and I have very high grade cuffs that he cannot get out of without my help. I consider loose bondage to be the sort of restraint one could get out of if they really wanted/needed to (which is what we started with to test the waters on comfort). It's not "fake" by any means, it's just a stepping stone to see if one wants to go further with it.

[Stillness]

The average man can overpower the average woman, but it is not necessarily easily done. A rapist certainly cannot easily exercise the same control over a free woman with some fight in her that he would over a restrained one. He runs the risk of being maimed or killed by the former. So, it's not an illusion of control, even if he could brutalize her and eventually make her submit.

But more than that, why would this even be something that keeps coming up? A woman that trusts you might let you try stuff, but saying "You might as well since I could force you" probably won't earn much trust. It's a creepy thought process.

[ItsASecret]

When restrained a female isn't really loseing any physical control.

Of course they are losing control, that is the whole point of being restrained. They are no longer able to control their own physical actions because they are being purposefully restrained. It takes an enormous amount of trust to be in such a vulnerable position.

As for you not liking talking to people about this stuff or joining a group I can understand that but at the same time not joining something like a group where you know people would have similar interests and instead hoping that a random date turns into your girlfriend who happens to like heavy bondage is not as favorable as you may hope. There are certainly many many women out there who enjoy what you are proposing but it could take a long while to actually find that woman hence why it would be a good idea to at least explore a group of some sort so at least you know individuals who feel the same way as you.

[Quest]

That's a fairly presumptuous statement. What makes you think that?

I'm baseing this claim off fetish dateing sites, I don't think most of the people there I would have anything in common with or want form a relationship with. That said it's possible that there are plenty of females who like/would be ok with bondage and want a normal relationship in every other way. My experience in this area is nonexsistent.

I don't think it would be a guaranteed deal breaker to wait. If a relationship is strong and healthy, mentioning that you're interested in bondage shouldn't be too huge of an issue (there are exceptions, certainly, but hopefully at 6 months you would have a decent understanding of the woman you were dating).

Yea I would hope so. It doesn't seem like it would be something which would scare her after that point in the relationship but like I said I don't have much experience in this area. I'd hate to have 6month+ worth of time invested end up a complete waste because she finds the idea of bondage horrible and won't do it, and thinks I am "sick" because of it.

It's part of your sexual lifestyle desires. At any rate, my husband and I have a D/S relationship, and you wouldn't know it just by seeing us out in public. I think I may not have been clear enough on loose bondage. My husband and I have very high grade cuffs that he cannot get out of without my help. I consider loose bondage to be the sort of restraint one could get out of if they really wanted/needed to (which is what we started with to test the waters on comfort). It's not "fake" by any means, it's just a stepping stone to see if one wants to go further with it.

Ok, that makes sense.

The average man can overpower the average woman, but it is not necessarily easily done. A rapist certainly cannot easily exercise the same control over a free woman with some fight in her that he would over a restrained one. He runs the risk of being maimed or killed by the former. So, it's not an illusion of control, even if he could brutalize her and eventually make her submit.

But more than that, why would this even be something that keeps coming up? A woman that trusts you might let you try stuff, but saying "You might as well since I could force you" probably won't earn much trust. It's a creepy thought process.

Actually I was pointing out that she's not loseing any control during the act of sex. Being willingly restrained or not isn't very important if I wanted to do something she didn't want me to do.

Thus if she didn't want to do bondage because of fear that I would do something she didn't want me to do while she was restrained, then that fear is unfounded as if I wanted to do something to her she didn't want me to do, I could regardless of if she did bondage or not.

Of course they are losing control, that is the whole point of being restrained. They are no longer able to control their own physical actions because they are being purposefully restrained. It takes an enormous amount of trust to be in such a vulnerable position.

As for you not liking talking to people about this stuff or joining a group I can understand that but at the same time not joining something like a group where you know people would have similar interests and instead hoping that a random date turns into your girlfriend who happens to like heavy bondage is not as favorable as you may hope. There are certainly many many women out there who enjoy what you are proposing but it could take a long while to actually find that woman hence why it would be a good idea to at least explore a group of some sort so at least you know individuals who feel the same way as you.

It's true that they lose their ability to move freely but like I said above, if I wanted to do something to a female I was having sex with without her permission, I certainly could regardless of if she let me handcuff her or not.

I wouldn't call the bondage I like heavy, I would call it medium(or light) and like I said above, I really don't think I would share much if anything in common with bondage "groups". If it was filled with people who like bondage but want a normal relationship then I would go, but I don't believe that is the case.

I'm the conservative bondage fetishist, I am the 1% :P.

[Stillness]

Actually I was pointing out that she's not loseing any control during the act of sex. Being willingly restrained or not isn't very important if I wanted to do something she didn't want me to do.

Yeah, it's just plain false, Quest. Women do have the capability of defending themselves. And even if you could get the better of her (which is not guaranteed if she's unrestrained) and rape her, it's still creepy logic.

What if your woman was trying to get you to do something and said, "You know I could just hit you in the head while you slept and do it anyway?"

[DreamP346]

Quest - if you don't want to look into groups into BDSM, your chances are slim. You can tell a woman up front and save time with somebody that currently isn't into it. Most likely, most women will find it creepy, but it will save you time investing in a relationship that won't satisfy you. You can develop a close relationship and hope she will be willing to try things because she cares enough for you. But once again, you risk investing the time and falling in love with somebody who just doesn't enjoy it.

The other thing to consider is age. I find younger women to be less open to trying new things. Somebody who is not open to things now, may change in another 10 years (if you are looking for a long term relationship). I can tell you, when I was younger, I was a very vanilla kind of gal. I also was very much in control and liked to be the dominant one when it came to sex and any other aspect of the relationship. Now that I've been with my husband 12 years, I am actually the exact opposite. I enjoy doing all the kinky stuff. But the thing is he is the only man in the world I would ever want to do them with. In my dating years, if I men somebody who told me he liked kinky sex, I wouldn't have dated him. There is a lot of trust involved. Putting yourself in both a vulnerable and degrading position. Don't ever confuse that with an illusion of control.

Control comes in more forms than physical control. There is a large psychological aspect to it also. Don't ever think, as a man, you have the capacity (even if you have no intention of exercising it) to overpower a woman. Most women are physicially weaker, but that does not mean they do not have any physical strength. Also, its not the total strenght, but skill of the fighter that counts. Woman can scream, scratch and kick where it really hurts a man. If a woman is being raped, she can scream in hopes that somebody will come to help her. But if she willing lets a man constrain her, even if things start to do wrong, she can't really call for help. How is she going to explain that she willing allowed this man to tie her up in those nice neat knots, but now he's raping her? That is true vulnerability. Chosing to put yourself in that position requires a tremendous amount of trust.

[rosekitten]

I'm baseing this claim off fetish dateing sites, I don't think most of the people there I would have anything in common with or want form a relationship with. That said it's possible that there are plenty of females who like/would be ok with bondage and want a normal relationship in every other way. My experience in this area is nonexsistent.

So you're assuming that there just must be something "off" about women who are into bondage. Got it. You wont' have much luck finding anyone by making such assumptions.

[rcoreyus]

There are lots of people into BDSM. For some it is just one of the many fun things they do in bed. For others it is a lifestyle. Some enjoy what I think of as playful bondage - nothing they couldn't get out of, and no real pain, just make-believe. Others are into real restraints and sometime severe pain.

As far as I'm concerned, all is OK if everyone enjoys what they are doing, but there is a wide range. I would guess that more often than not, the people who are into BDSM will not be as shy as most others above discussing it (though maybe I'm wrong).

It is something you can bring up early in a relationship in a joking way - when your date does something mildly wrong or is late, you can say something to the effect of "next time you're getting a spanking" (and smile as if its a joke). If they get at all offended, or just take it as a joke - drop it, they aren't interested. If they are interested you are very likely to get a response on the lines of "well maybe I should misbehave more" - or something else in that direction.

[Quest]

Yeah, it's just plain false, Quest. Women do have the capability of defending themselves. And even if you could get the better of her (which is not guaranteed if she's unrestrained) and rape her, it's still creepy logic.

What if your woman was trying to get you to do something and said, "You know I could just hit you in the head while you slept and do it anyway?"

Uh, in this hypothetical scenario we would already be having sex, I can pretty much say with certainity if I wanted to do something against my hypothetical girlfirends wishes she couldn't stop me but regardless my point isn't that she should do something because I could force her to do it, my point is that it's unfounded for her to not do bondage because of fear of me doing something to her we had not agreed upon.

Quest - if you don't want to look into groups into BDSM, your chances are slim. You can tell a woman up front and save time with somebody that currently isn't into it. Most likely, most women will find it creepy, but it will save you time investing in a relationship that won't satisfy you. You can develop a close relationship and hope she will be willing to try things because she cares enough for you. But once again, you risk investing the time and falling in love with somebody who just doesn't enjoy it.

The other thing to consider is age. I find younger women to be less open to trying new things. Somebody who is not open to things now, may change in another 10 years (if you are looking for a long term relationship). I can tell you, when I was younger, I was a very vanilla kind of gal. I also was very much in control and liked to be the dominant one when it came to sex and any other aspect of the relationship. Now that I've been with my husband 12 years, I am actually the exact opposite. I enjoy doing all the kinky stuff. But the thing is he is the only man in the world I would ever want to do them with. In my dating years, if I men somebody who told me he liked kinky sex, I wouldn't have dated him. There is a lot of trust involved. Putting yourself in both a vulnerable and degrading position. Don't ever confuse that with an illusion of control.

Control comes in more forms than physical control. There is a large psychological aspect to it also. Don't ever think, as a man, you have the capacity (even if you have no intention of exercising it) to overpower a woman. Most women are physicially weaker, but that does not mean they do not have any physical strength. Also, its not the total strenght, but skill of the fighter that counts. Woman can scream, scratch and kick where it really hurts a man. If a woman is being raped, she can scream in hopes that somebody will come to help her. But if she willing lets a man constrain her, even if things start to do wrong, she can't really call for help. How is she going to explain that she willing allowed this man to tie her up in those nice neat knots, but now he's raping her? That is true vulnerability. Chosing to put yourself in that position requires a tremendous amount of trust.

I'm thinking upfront is not so good but maybe when the topic of sex comes up which I would assume to be 3-4 months in. This would at least give time for her to develop emotional feelings and attachment to me and demonstrate I'm not a crazy person who wants to torture and kill her.

If she is open to trying it the relationship will continue, if not end it's likely better to end it considering it's something I do want.

I don't think waiting 10 years is a very good idea, lol. Certainly it needs to be stated before the relationship got to the point of potential cohabitation.

If she is open to trying it, in terms of first time bondage I would assume handcuffs+cowgirl wouldn't be too threatening to her? She would still be free to move around more or less.

Anyway in terms of rape the same can and has been said for normal sex.

So you're assuming that there just must be something "off" about women who are into bondage. Got it. You wont' have much luck finding anyone by making such assumptions.

No, I'm assuming something is off with the bulk of the people on fetish dateing sites, there is a distinction. I would love a girlfriend who really enjoyed being restrained but wanted a normal relationship otherwise.

None on such sites appear to be interested in a normal relationship. They make their fetish the basis of their relationships and don't seem to value the act of sex or in general have anything in common with me other then bondage.

So I would certainly be interested in a dateing website filled with females who are in their 20s, liked bondage and shared other things in common with me, I simply don't know one that exists.