[dreamer95]

I am very frustrated with my marriage & wife of 13 years. She is absolutely beautiful, and the love of my life. Our sex life has ranged across the spectrum from pretty good to non-existent at times. I am an attractive, healthy 40 yr old with a successful career, and completely committed. I have the sexual urges of a 20 yr old, but my wife's level of interest has made me feel like more of a roommate or business partner most of the time. We've tried to talk through things, when it became clear arguments outnumbered progress, I convinced her to go to counseling with me a year ago (kicking & screaming) We followed most of our therapist's suggestions, and things improved for a while. At the time I feared we stopped counseling prematurely, she "accidentally" forgot about an appt, and never returned. I fooled myself into thinking we'd be ok on our own. Things are now regressing, but we are trying to work on things again based on what we've learned.

I am a very secure & open-minded guy, and just want to please. But my wife puts restrictions and limits on everything to the point where I feel both rejected and manipulated. I feel passion but she very rarely displays any. Kissing is not interesting or passionate, and foreplay is very rare & short in duration. I can't recall the last time she tried to seduce me, I must initiate everything. The sex we do have is vanilla & predictable, becoming boring for me. Missionary, lights off, covers pulled up, layers of clothes, or a BJ when she's not in the mood at all. Many times the BJ's seem like more of a chore than fun. Not being able to express myself and satisfy urges has been extremely frustrating. Our therapist urged us to do the Yes/No/Maybe chart, and it took almost a year for me to get her to do it with me. The results by and large validated my concerns.

Here's where I need advice. She does not like being touched in her genital area at all. In fact, when I get aroused and make advances she plays defense. You can imagine how that males me feel. She is so beautiful and I tell her constantly, but she ignores my compliments. She seems to hate her body and has a very negative attitude about sex. I fear our intimacy is being killed by low self esteem and control issues. I went down the road of were you ever abused, taken advantage of, etc. She insists no. She had a very restrictive upbringing, though, and topics such as sex were avoided.

To make matters worse, I have been extremely interested in giving her oral sex, and she for years has told me she doesn't like it, although we've never even tried? Any time I'd bring this subject up, an argument ensued. That had been the story for years, until last night while working on the Yes/No/Maybe list. After 13 years the story changed to some guy at college who she fooled around with for a month tried to give her oral sex and she didn't like it. So I have been punished for 17 years because of bad sex with an inexperienced, selfish college guy she hooked up with. I feel betrayed because she hid the truth from me for 17 years. And the fact that she let this random guy give it a try, but won't give me a chance, hurts.

I am not a cheater, and I want to save this marriage (2 kids in the mix, too), but there is only so much I can take. I fear I am nearing my breaking point, and looking for help...

[AshB$]

Well, why don't you set up a romantic evening. Have someone watch the kids. Tell her you are going to spoil her, like it or not. Go out or stay home. Go to her favorite restaurant or cook her favorite meal. Enjoy a little wine (if you drink). Have her pick out a movie or something. Tell her how beautiful she is. (I ignore compliments too from my fiance because I am so insecure and hate myself. I think it is a girl thing). Make the kissing passionate. Express how much you love her. Build up some sexual tension if possible. Try to get her in the mood before starting anything! Nibble on her neck, caress her chest. Maybe if you two get into it, she'll let you go down on her. You could either go for it, or ask. Just make the night 100% romantic! I think all couples need one of those at least once a month.

Good luck!

[Mes T]

Okay I know this is going to sound very fundamental, but: Does your wife orgasm from sex? From the picture you paint I am willing to bet that she does not, and also that she does not know how to pleasure herself, has probably never tried masturbation, and in general (probably thanks to her upbringing) thinks that sex is kind of dirty and not something women do.

If she's not getting pleasure from sex then she's not going to want to do it. Nobody would. Also if she does not know how to bring herself to orgasm, then you won't be able to either. You're not a mind reader, after all. She has got to learn to do this first before anyone else can do it for her.

I know I am making a lot of assumptions here and please say so if they are false... then we can tackle this from a different angle.

[dreamer95]

AshB$, thank you for your thoughts. We've done the romantic evenings or "date night", just not enough of them. We kept track of them on a calendar, and lately this has fallen along the wayside like other aspects. Part of the problem is our jobs, kids, and household always seem to exhaust most of the time/energy. Our relationship needs to be higher priority, I see that. Will put more focus on your ideas, but we've been down this road before, I think the issue may be far more complicated?

[dreamer95]

Okay I know this is going to sound very fundamental, but: Does your wife orgasm from sex? From the picture you paint I am willing to bet that she does not, and also that she does not know how to pleasure herself, has probably never tried masturbation, and in general (probably thanks to her upbringing) thinks that sex is kind of dirty and not something women do.

If she's not getting pleasure from sex then she's not going to want to do it. Nobody would. Also if she does not know how to bring herself to orgasm, then you won't be able to either. You're not a mind reader, after all. She has got to learn to do this first before anyone else can do it for her.

I know I am making a lot of assumptions here and please say so if they are false... then we can tackle this from a different angle.

Thank you Mes T. She does indeed orgasm from sex with no problem. She will touch/pleasure herself sometimes while we're having sex and it always results in an orgasm. I suspect she does not pleasure herself solo at all, though. I got her two type of vibrators hoping she'd explore on her own, but she says they don't do anything for her. Honestly, I would not know if she's really even tried.

When we were seeing a therapist, we even did the whole abstain from sex for a while and then re-wire touching & pleasure, etc. This seemed to help in the short term, but things have reverted back close to where we were originally. Lots of "no's" and claiming to not like so many things, many of which we've never even tried?

I hope this helps, I could go on and on. I really appreciate your insight...

[dreamer95]

Well, why don't you set up a romantic evening. Have someone watch the kids. Tell her you are going to spoil her, like it or not. Go out or stay home. Go to her favorite restaurant or cook her favorite meal. Enjoy a little wine (if you drink). Have her pick out a movie or something. Tell her how beautiful she is. (I ignore compliments too from my fiance because I am so insecure and hate myself. I think it is a girl thing). Make the kissing passionate. Express how much you love her. Build up some sexual tension if possible. Try to get her in the mood before starting anything! Nibble on her neck, caress her chest. Maybe if you two get into it, she'll let you go down on her. You could either go for it, or ask. Just make the night 100% romantic! I think all couples need one of those at least once a month.

Good luck!

AshB$, sorry I am new at this, meant to quote & had some more comments. We need more romantnic "us" time, for sure, I agree with once per month minimum. I wanted to add that I am a very unselfish husband and pour tons of time and effort into my wife and family. I do it because I want to, and like to see people happy. But I do reach a point where I feel "taken advantage of" or taken for granted.

I have patience and love to play and get her in the mood, but foreplay has really never been her thing, and that concerns me deeply. It seem like she sees sex as a race to the end, rather than and enjoyable journey. I feel there are major self-esteem issues, and also she has to control every situation. How do I approach this?

The above scenario is grinding on me...I can't see myself having an affair and do not want to damage my kids with a divorce, but I have to be honest that these options seem like an escape in my mind? I am just so frustrated

[Stillness]

Hey dreamer95! Welcome.

My situation is quite a bit different from yours, but some things line up. I've been married one year less than you and have had problems stemming from differences in libido too. It has improved, but I'd still like more. Certain things that I'd like to do with my wife, she's not into. You said your wife orgasms from sex with no problem. A guy on these boards a while back made the observation that women who can orgasm from penile penetration tend to prefer that over anything, at times to the exclusion of other things. I think that has some validity. I've recently discussed this at length with my wife and had a mind-blowing conversation about the superiority of the sensations she gets from my penis over anything else. The sexual experience as she described it is so mentally and physically different from my own as to make me give up trying to understand.

I agree that the rejection and coldness is a major issue, but your expectations may also be a problem. Just because you like certain things doesn't mean you should expect her too. If she doesn't want digital or oral manipulation of her genitals then you may need to let that go and appreciate what you have. A lot of men would love to have their woman climax during sex like yours can.

[LittlePip]

I may be way off the mark here but it sounds like couples counselling is the last thing you need to consider. If your wife hates her body that much she will have a tough time valuing herself, especially as a sexual/sensual being. She needs to work on her own confidence in her own time and you alone cannot do that for her as much as you give and reassure her it needs to come from within. Has she always had body worries or is that post-children? Have you always had sex with covers, layers, lights off? Sometimes when you say no so often it's hard to say yes. Is there one thing she particularly likes sexually that you could persuade her to receive regularly (or give if that's what she prefers). I say this because I remember a period of time with my ex when I never said yes (unless desperate) because I found it difficult to cum with him, I felt under too much pressure to cum, and if I just wanted to give him a BJ and be masturbated he'd always want more and I didn't feel comfortable with that.

[Hugo-B]

I'm sorry, I don't think there is anything you can do with your wife to make this situation improve. You've clearly been very patient and supportive AND have exhausted all of the options available to you.

If this situation doesn't improve EVERYONE will lose out, the OP, the OP' wife, and of course their children.

I think your wife needs to WANT help, until she does you're just wasting time going around in circles. You cannot do this for her, she needs to do this herself.

Her problems are now not only affecting her - to the point where she won't be touched 'downstairs' by her own husband - but they are literally about to drive him (a caring, patient, committed man) away, tearing the marriage apart in the process.

It is going to take a lot more than a 'yes, no, maybe' chart to resolve this. As I said, she needs to want help, she needs to want to work through this and improve the situation, if for no one else then the children. She deserves another chance, but she also needs to know that she needs to give a certain amount in return - in the form of a genuine, sincere, and proactive attempt at working through her issues - with your love and support of course. She needs to do this if your marriage has any chance of being healthy and surviving over the long term.

Time to sit down and have a serious talk.

Good luck

[Hopeless Dork]

Since she is orgasmic, and able to experience that pleasure... this doesn't seem as much to me like a libido issue. The lights off, blankets up, lots of clothes to muddle through, the recoiling from your touch... it all sounds a whole lot more like severe body image, self esteem issues that are holding her back from truly enjoying sex with with you, and allowing you to enjoy sex as well.

You say you tell her she is beautiful, and that you complement her all the time.. a woman with severe body image issues/ self esteem problems doesn't believe what you say anyway. But please, don't stop saying it.. even if it falls on what appear to be deaf ears -- she's hearing it.

Is there anything you can think of that you do that provokes any insecurites in her? Porn? Complimenting other women? Roving-eye syndrome? Making any sort of comments that may make her feel less than? Body image issues/ esteem issues can occur with even the most beautiful of women. And I'm not saying you are guilty of any of the above, just saying to please consider any of your actions that may be reinforcing her issues negatively.. and working to modify your behaviors if any of the above exsist to see if it in any way helps.

I use to be overweight, and lost it. But all of my insecurities still exsist. In my own head and the way I feel about me.. I'm my harshest critic. When my boyfriend makes me feel sexy and i let my guard down I am fully capable of being a total vixen with the lights on. When I'm in a good place I feel good being naked and letting him touch any part of my body his hands desire to. But when I am feeling down on myself, I am lights off, blankets up.. let me only take off enough to let him get it in.. and the sex is very likely pretty mediocre for him on those days.

Even worse than that... on times when i see he's looked at porn, or times i notice him noticing some other woman... all my worries and self doubt intensify and I dont feel like having sex at all... even if my body is 'wanting' i just get into my own head of I'm obviously not what he wants so I am not going to even try.. and then I get distant sexually... and I doubt he even realizes the effect something so small could have on me, but it does.

Its a cycle we go through from time to time, but we are mostly on the good to awesome range, and I know it has so much to do with how sexy he makes me feel. Even on those days I am feeling distant, when he calls me hot or beautiful, it doesn't do the trick when I am feeling slighted from some of the above I mentioned. So... while it may be irrelevent to your situation, thought I'd give something to consider.