[tigresscurves]

i just want to thank you all for replying. i'm in tears with gratitude that you all took the time to read all of that and spend time replying. it's been such an enourmous help.

i had a reply that took me over an hour to write. but.... when i hit post i had to log in again and i lost the entire thing. so i'm in more tears, lol.

i'll come back again tomorrow and answer the questions that you asked, my OP was a bit of a stream of consciousness thing, i wasn't very clear with some of it i appreciate

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Save it in word and copy and paste in here, or save it as you go along There is a time limit here, if you took an hour to type, yep, ya were logged off within IDK 20 minutes I think it is...

[tigresscurves]

I couldn't seem to multi quote so your questions are in bold with my replies after. I'm in tears [again] writing this, you have no idea how much even writing all this out and having somene listen is helping me get up the confidence to have what'll probably be the hardest conversation i've ever had in my life! i am so lucky i found this forum xxx

Is he only able to go an inch or 2 because of his size or is he longer, but just won't penetrate? You say he can't concentrate now. Does that mean he can't get a full erection? What "milder things" would you like? You say he made you feel that being naked or wearing stockings was kinky and then say we get it, but I really don't. What would he say? Are you trying to wear stockings during sex or just under a skirt? A lot of people think that stockings are more conservative and dressy, so there's a lot I don't get.

He only seems to be able to get any sensation in the first inch or two, yes. He knows that i like to feel properly penetrated, and how much it frustrates me, but yeah, he'll penetrate me for one or two thrusts so to speak, then back to his way. As for the not concentrating, yes sometimes he might lose his erection, other times he would just stop. Suddenly. And no amount of cajoling or comforting him would re-start things. The milder stuff is.. really mild!! like tying my hands together or wearing a blindfold, using a vibrator on me or vibrating ring on him, stuff like that, that in any other relationship i've ever been in, has been the normal things that we would do most times we had sex.

The nakedness thing or wearing stockings... well. I can't explain it very well i'm afraid. Instead of being comfortable being naked around each other, and snuggling naked after sex he would always get up and put on shorts and a tshirt. I would usually float around after a shower either nude or in a towel. In our house. But he would always make an issue of it. Making comments like i was being naughty or kinky when... as i said... being naughty or kinky was the last thing on my mind. It started to make me so uncomfortable i stopped being able to walk round like that. The thought of the comments make me so sick i've developed my own phobia from it. Uggggh. How ****************ed up is that?!!!!

Men need women to be blunt.
You ask "Do you love me?"
He says yes (hopefully!)
You say "Then we are going to see this therapist, because I am not happy and cant go on like this."
The ball is then in his court. If he doesnt agree, you may have to think about where your future really points im afraid.

That last sentence was TOUGH to read. But you're right. And i'm in tears reading it. Thank you. xxx

I think it's more than sex. Initially, you state basically (mid week, weekends) so it was always routine, is he a "routine type of guy"? Because sex is about horny/sensual and sexual. Lust or love or both. Routine makes it meaningless. Do you think that could have started this?

No, i don't think so. Though... i don't really know to be honest, it's impossible to have those kinds of conversations with him.

Do you know how he was bought up? It sounds as if he was brainwashed that women are discusting tarts if they do anything other than lay there and take it.

Maybe. I mean... knowing his folks and knowing they have 3 kids it ASTOUNDS me that they've definitely had sex at least 3 times... they're very very very odd. And catholic. I'm not. catholic or odd. well maybe a bit odd. everyone is, but not their level of odd. did i mention they were odd?

This is a "Father issue, maybe coupled with his thoughts of himself with size", in my opinion.
You can change the locks for instance. Dad can't get inside.

See, there has always been locks. And dad only called round once unnanounced.... 3 years ago!!! they always call beforehand now. He could have handled it by not answering the door, waiting till his dad had driven away and resumed things. His dad isn't the sort of guy to care, more than likely he'd have made a joke about 'having a lie-in' and left it like that. But my husband chose to be unsettled by it, getting dressed and running out and just leaving me there....

He doesn't even care if his hards are with calyses or if you are on your period, he's totally selfish.

Yeah, this gets to me. He'll sit there and give out about his hands, he'll put on the big blue stereotypically male totally non-girly moisturiser i bought him ONCE. Then never do it again.

You don't need a sex therapist sweet, you know what you want, you are assertive it's just un-fortunately, you are and entered knowingly to some degree the wrong relationship.

This was... very hard to read. And to some degree you're right. But i do want to fight for us. Hence my wanting to go for therapy again. I don't want to give up on him or us.

the issues with the foreskin tell me why there was little sensation, but does not explain the shallow penetration. That continued after the circumcision too. I still don't get it. I do agree there are some deeper problems. I think you hit the nail on the head with the depression. I guess I'd like to know what made him "perfect" in the beginning. Is he just weird about sexual stuff and is otherwise a great person? I was thinking selfishness too, but I think there's more to it because he's shut down. He's not even trying or able to get pleasure for himself like a selfish person might do. That makes me feel like there's hope for them.

I know he'd never cheat. And i don't think i would either, we're just not that kind of person. The shutting down thing is very hard to deal with. But sometimes i think it's not even shutting down, because in order to shut down you have to have been set up at some point, and i'm really not sure if he's 'set up' to talk about things openly and honestly and with reason and logic. And that scares the **************** out of me :-(

One of the problems I see is communication, like his hung head and "I dunno" and her expectations for him to mind-read. As TVlover said, we need women to be blunt. It just seems that neither one knows what the other is going through.

Woooah there, I've never expected him to mind read. When we went to marriage councelling and even before then i was always able to say what i needed, wanted and wanted to give him.. But when it's his turn it's when the 'i dunno' comes out. If you ask someone every single time you have sex that you like a certain thing, coud you try that and they don't... there comes a time where you just have to accept they're not willing to do it. Same with talking openly. I'm only human. I can only talk to the side of his head as he stares at the floor going 'i dunno' so many times before it ecks away and makes you so sad that you... just give up. And i did. But i've decided to not give up any more, hence seeing the therapist.

Maybe something as simple as tigresscurves being on top and more in control would do the trick. She could pump him like she wants to be pumped.

Tried it... many times. Without being horrible about it, it doesn't work. I don't feel him at all but he usually loses his erection anyway so it's even more awkward than any other position.

Most of what you describe sounds like selfish behavior on his part. However, you didn't mention why "he eventually went to get circumcised". Did he do this for himself or for you? If he did it for you, I'd say that is a very unselfish act.

Well it was me that brought up the fact that he only gets sensation aound the head, and maybe that's because he couldn't retract his foreskin and was used to just masturbating by stroking the very top. He really didn't have a clue. Or if he did he never verbalised it. I showed him links on different stretching methods that i googled [cause i knew he'd never bother] but he never did them. So about a year later i sat him down at the computer and had stories of guys who had gone through adult ciscumcision open and he read them. Only then would he agree to go to the doctor. I genuinely don't think he had a clue that there was an alternative out there to having a painfully tight foreskin... sad and all as that is...

Does he give you an orgasm before PIV sex? It doesn't sound like that is the case.

Nope. He doesn't go down on me, he'd never let me do other stuff like... masturbating off his leg or him using his penis to masturbate my clitoris or anything like my ex used to do!! as i said his hands are VERY painful down there when he touches me so when we ever did have sex i would masturbate afterwards to get rid of the frustration. Not always frustration for an orgasm though, more my own internal frustration over not feeling at all ****************ed fully or adequately.

I agree with the other comments that counseling is your best option, but do your homework and find one that comes highly recommended.

Yup, this lady is perfect. As i said i've already gone to see her, just need to get him there now!!

[DreamP346]

You don't have to say much, just tell him you are unhappy, you have made an appointment with a counsellor and if he wants to make this marriage work he needs to go. The counsellor will help you express yourself to your husband and hopefully help you both. Most sex therapists also do marriage counseling. In fact many of the tactics they use are to help the marriage.

There is definitely more than issues with sex going on. Your husband has many issues of his own in additions to the issues in your marriage. The challenge for you now is to make him realize how unhappy you are and that if he doesn't put an effort into the counseling you will walk. You need to tell him that it's not just about showing up to counseling but also putting full effort into it. Abstain from sex until you get to counseling. Often people try hard just before going to therapy and show up to their appointment as if nothing is wrong.

Good luck.

[Stillness]

He only seems to be able to get any sensation in the first inch or two, yes.

I think this has more to do with him trying to make your vagina feel like his hand. All men are much more sensitive near the tip. The vagina stimulates the tip all the way through, though. Does he still masturbate even though you two aren't intimate? That might explain the issues with maintaining an erection.

The milder stuff is.. really mild!! like tying my hands together or wearing a blindfold, using a vibrator on me or vibrating ring on him, stuff like that, that in any other relationship i've ever been in, has been the normal things that we would do most times we had sex.

This can be one of the downsides with having had more than one partner - getting used to what one person does then expecting that from another person. I'm sure your counselor will tell you that's a no-no.
Everybody has different views on those things. All of that stuff is not mild to me. I'm not saying it's bad or outrageous - just that everyone has different comfort levels.

Woooah there, I've never expected him to mind read.

What I was referring to is this:

some days he'd stroke my bum in bed and try and put his hand down further to 'that area' and I'd pull away from him. he knows that I've spent the morning eating painkillers, with a hot water bottle on my back so he knows it's that time of the month, but still tries it on. doesn't THINK. keeps trying and i keep pulling away cause it's not very sexy to say 'please stop trying to touch me I'm bleeding and feel like ********************************'. i get so frustrated and sad that he doesn't remember or care that i don't like that.

You're assuming he knows you're on your period and how you feel. There's a really good chance he doesn't. I often don't know my wife is on her period. If I do know she is, I don't know what "stage" she's in and how she feels. She lets me know and I understand. Don't get me wrong, this is minor compared to the picture you're painting of the issues he has, but you should be clear and not just pull away without explanation. That can be hurtful, especially in a relationship that's already strained.

what do i actually say? how do i put it? and please... i need this to be spelled out in such a way that i just memorize the words and relay them to him... i need specifics... i have literally no idea how to word that we need to see a sex therapist.

You never did explain how he's "perfect." You don't necessarily have to explain it to me or us, but it would probably be a nice opener to your discussion with him. Sincere commendation will make him more receptive. Also men like to solve problems for and protect their woman. So if you said something like:

"You're a good man. I love the way you do X. It's what makes me attracted to you. I've got an issue I'd like your help with. I want us to be closer. I need us to be. Will you help me please?" (This is the problem for him to solve. Hopefully he says "yes.")

"That makes me happy. I've been afraid." (He's going to want to destroy whatever is causing you fear). "I'm afraid we're going to lose us. I want us to work so much that I'm willing to do something a little uncomfortable, like get some outside help. I know something like that can be awkward, but I want so badly for us to be happy together that I don't care what it takes. Is it wrong for me to feel that way?" (If you get to this point it's nearly impossible for him to say no to this question). "I'm glad you feel that way. I checked out a lady that seems really good, but to help us she needs to see us together as husband and wife. What would be the best time for us to get together and sit down with her [date 1] or [date 2]." (This is sort of sneaky, but it's powerful. You've already gotten multiple yeses. At this point you're not asking for permission because he's already agreed. You're not giving him a chance to say no, just control over when it happens.)

If he picks a date, you're good. "Thank you! It means so much to me that you care about us enough to try this out."

If he baulks then get him to tell you why. If you get, "I dunno," review the yeses you got and try to get him to say yes again. Then add something like, "Would you be willing to at least try it out with me?" (This is rhetorical, do not pause). "If it doesn't help we can stop. But if it does help, wouldn't that be great?!" (If you get a "yes" to that question then the conversation is over.) "Thank you! It means so much to me that you care about us enough to try this out." Set the date.

If you get, "Yes, but…" that you can't overcome, ask him what he recommends you two do to solve your problem because you're afraid of losing him if you do nothing. If he makes a suggestion, then show your willingness to try it his way. You may have to put the therapist on the back burner for a while. If it's, "I dunno," and you can carefully ask if he's willing to at least try, then try it one more time. But you may have to let it go, at least for a while. Be persuasive. Use your feminine charm. Listen to him. Hold his hands while you talk. The topic is serious and depressing, but try to be upbeat and positive. Don't be accusatory or argumentative.

Best wishes.

[tigresscurves]

Does he still masturbate even though you two aren't intimate? That might explain the issues with maintaining an erection.

He does, yeah. I've also found porn in the internet history on the computer when i was looking for a bookmark i lost. When i checked what it was, it was... women who looked like me... but skinnier and younger lol. That was a bit of a blow to my confidence to be honest but only for a few minutes... i let it go and didn't mention it. If i had mentioned it he'd have shrivelled up and died of embarrassment so i didn't.

This can be one of the downsides with having had more than one partner - getting used to what one person does then expecting that from another person. I'm sure your counselor will tell you that's a no-no. Everybody has different views on those things. All of that stuff is not mild to me. I'm not saying it's bad or outrageous - just that everyone has different comfort levels.

But there's the thing, i never said i expected these things from him, but i do like them and yes, i've asked for them. I think it's only fair that when he gets off and i'm just left there while he washes and gets dressed that i should get at least SOME attention. But i get such a negative reaction or else no reaction at all when i ask for them i've learned over time that they'll never happen. We did some of those things when we got together first, but now he's unwilling to even try things with me, that's the issue here i think, not what i've done with partners in the past. I've never spoken about anything sexual i've ever done with a past partner, i'm not that insensitive!! ;-)

You're assuming he knows you're on your period and how you feel. There's a really good chance he doesn't. I often don't know my wife is on her period. If I do know she is, I don't know what "stage" she's in and how she feels. She lets me know and I understand. Don't get me wrong, this is minor compared to the picture you're painting of the issues he has, but you should be clear and not just pull away without explanation. That can be hurtful, especially in a relationship that's already strained.

I don't assume anything though, i tell him out straight!!!!! He always knows when i'm on my period. I'm as regular as clockwork, so for every single month of the last 4 and a half years it's been within a day or two from the previous month. When we talk on the phone during the day i'll usually mention it like ''it's hot water bottle and painkiller time here'' and we make a joke about breaking out the emergency hagen daz or something. So he does know. And when we met first i told him how i don't really like sex during those 5-7 days and he agreed that it's not something he'd be into either. He'll have seen me in my 'relaxing pants' that day, he'll have seen me with the hot water bottle at my back, eating risotto, my go-to ultimate comfort food... every month... for years. he knows!!! He just choses to ignore it, it seems. I've said a few times over the years that i don't like sex during that time and we've spoken about it, i've done all the explaining and spell out when he does try it on, and he says 'oh sorry i forgot'. but how can you forget that your wife is having her period when you've laughed about a tampax ad on tv an hour or so previously?! it's a lazy excuse for the fact that he's not listening to me... or hearing me.... and that bloody hurts.

The rest of your advice stillness, is just brilliant. I think i'm going to print that out and memorize it. Thank you so much xxxxxxxxx

[Stillness]

:Sigh: Pornography - the pleasure-killer.

I'm glad you like my suggestion. I talk people into doing stuff for a living. I really hope you're able to work things out. Please, let us know how it progresses.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I can't put my finger on it, Little may recall. There is a known "physcological problem" much like being OCD.. whereby people react un-naturally about "nature" this doesn't excuse his selfishness at all.

You know you can't change someone sweet unless they want to change..

[tigresscurves]

I'm glad you like my suggestion. I talk people into doing stuff for a living.**

Well from what i can see you must be VERY good at your job!!

I can't put my finger on it, Little may recall. There is a known "physcological problem" much like being OCD.. whereby people react un-naturally about "nature" this doesn't excuse his selfishness at all.*

How funny and perceptive that you should say that actually... cause he does have OCD tendencies. Not the handwashing or light switching or any of the more obvious and 'publicised' for the want of a better word symptoms, but order, clearing, cleaning, amongst other ones he definitely has. An example...:

I'm a stickler for food hygiene, clearing up the kitchen properly etc, and i do like clean floors and dust free shelves so it's not like i live like a slob but for the first 18 months or 2 years that we moved in together I battled against him putting things away. You could have walked into our house and not know that a woman lived there, that I lived there!

I wasn't allowed keep any of my stuff in the main room [we have an open plan kitchen/living diner]. I'm talking about leaving a nice book on the coffee table, leaving a notebook beside the computer, leaving the dvd case of the dvd we were watching on the table, stuff like that. We each have a chest of drawers on our respective sides of the bed and he'd go in to mine and tidy it and throw out stuff. Same with my shelf in the bathroom, he'd constantly be tidying it and throwing bottles out even though there was still product in them. I'd cleared out my parent's attic and brought a load of old photos and sketchbooks from college and had them in a box in the spare room. There was loads of old stuff of mine in the box and to be honest I was waiting till i was ready within myself to go through it and clear it all out but I opened it one day and... he'd already cleared it out and I found a load of papers from it in the bin. That particular invasion of privacy was the worst. Uggggh. I was using the spare room as a craft/art room but he would keep going in there cleaning up things i was working on and packing stuff away when i was in the middle of projects and basically wiping evidence of me out of the house. So now I don't go in there any more.... I tried to bring it up when we went to marriage councelling but... the therapist said that ''marriage is all about compromise'' and that ''maybe i should be less uptight about material possessions''. She had a point... but only up to a point. I'd never dream of rifling through anyone else's things – even a partner. And I'd never be so arrogant to think i knew better than them as to what was precious and important to them and throw stuff away. All i was asking for was that same respect in return. Was i wrong in that or should i bring it up? It still pains me to think that you look around the house and nothing of mine is visible but i try and repress it, lol.

You know you can't change someone sweet unless they want to change..

well on that note after all my rambling... i called him at work today. I know i know i shouldn't have done it over the phone but... i couldn't face watching him look at the floor. Silence on the phone is a lot easier to deal with than him looking at the floor. I followed stillness' advice and while i can't say it went terribly well, he did agree – VERY reluctantly - [after a 20 minute argument about his work being 'more important that talking to some quack' as he put it] to come to the appointment. Next wednesday at 4.30. am ****ting it now till he comes home. And it's a hour and 45 minute drive to the therapist so that car journey won't be fun... But... i want to thank everyone again for replying to this. I've felt so alone and isolated with this whole thing and i swear the day i found this forum has [will hopefully] changed my life!!!!!!

[CHANDLERS WISH]

That's great that he is going to do something "you want" and you both need and I wish you well on it.

Re:- OCD. People here call me a Witch

Having said that though, it sounds like, "everything is his", you don't exist, think about it. The sex, (his way), the way you dress (his way), the nakedness, not (his way), and then the clutter, de cluttering, invading your space, going into your areas (his house).....

That's past OCD, hense my original comment.. Maybe the Therapist knows of the condition, it is all selfish as it all revolves around him, you don't exist other than purely being there.

That's sad.