[Justice]

OK maybe this is not the right thread for this - but this is the only thread I post on - or read with any regularity - on this site; and I appreciate the honesty and thoughtfulness of the posters here.


The guy I have written about who has taken me from celibate and satisfied to just masturbate just a few time a month (and a virgin) - and it had been quite some time since I'd been really interested in any particular guy - to feeling sexually awaken and craving sex all the time.
I won't go into all the details again here of the initial part, but this guy started coming on strong and wrote/said many of the right things and it was like a switch.

He admitted that he was "in a relationship" and proposed a FWB relationship which after a few days thought I decided I was going to be fine with as long as we were at least friends and it would not be FB or ONS. He wrote about a lack of intimacy (some sound like what some of the guys here have written, especially this one):
I have tried to get the intimacy back on track a number of times. After a while you accept things are not going to change.

This was in one of the first emails: Some missing elements if you understand my meaning. which I
was guessing I did but wasn't sure

...not optimal, but I have needs. Many other parts of our relationship are really good, so I don't want to break it off. If you have needs that are not being met... Yes, this would be a friends with benefits type of situation.

... and... there were several that made it sound like he was one of those people who just don't want to be a lone - it sounded like they were together out of habit or convenience.

We live together, but we haven’t been intimate in a while and it’s been a long time since it was a regular thing. We don’t have an open relationship. Part of the reason I stick around is our commitment to our house, and before that, because of a common interest that I don't want to be specific about; but really it sounded like convenience or friendship versus love or passion.

He told me several times verbally and in writing that he has never been married and that they are not married. I know people don't always change their names - but I have seen numerous things that had led me to believe him that they are not married.

SO I have been reading all of these posts (mostly but not all guys) about craving intimacy and sex but your women/partners refusing or not wanting the same thing (mismatched drives). He even asked me if I was past the point of interest in sex (when in my case I finally have a (HIGH) interest) - and the way he put it makes me think that this is his SO's issue. And I just don't get it, he sounds depressed, lonely, hungry for intimacy and they are not married; but in other things it sounded like convenience, but some family situations make it seem like there would be family pressure to stay w/his GF.

So getting to the title question. As I mentioned in another post, I told him that I was ready to go and he pulled back. I even asked why and one of my questions was whether he'd been totally truthful with me -which I thought he had especially since some of the things he told me were not the most flattering - and whether that was a reason he was pulling back. He claimed it was because we (he) had been moving too fast and fantasies that should have stayed in his head instead of leading me on.

So we have backed off to a kind of a "professional" friend level; the emails have gone from sometimes a few a day to maybe once a week or more. I wrote him about an issue a friend was having and he suggested a website which has a support forum.... Well the cyber investigator in me of course went looking for his posts on this site. They were quite easy to find. He was posting at a time that was clearly very difficult for him; but when I started reading in his followups he referred to his SO ...as his WIFE. (But other than the posts for that one day I have not found anything else that would contradict his numerous claims that he is not married.)


So OK maybe he is a creep but he could have had me and treated me like a ONS - even though I told him that I had no interest in ONS or FB. - so he could have screwed me over. And I am not in a place I wanted a "normal" committed monogamous relationship - though I guess I was hoping that in terms of sex we'd be mostly monogamous - since he claimed it had been a long time (like some of the guys here) and even longer since it was a regular thing. I just can't do the living together, regular dating stuff now. (So a sexual relationship where we filled each others intimacy needs sounded like it could be fun - even if one-side in that there would be restrictions to his benefit that I would not have. )

One friend who knows some of what has been happening met her guy when he was still living with someone else (not married) and now they have been together for almost 20 years. She said that sometime she's heard of people referring to SO's as their husband/wife even when they are not married. She wondered whether he could have just used the word wife as a substitute for SO/partner/GF.

I know how to find divorce records, but not marriage records. Does anyone know how to know for sure?

I am not expecting anything to happen anytime soon - even if I fantasize about it a lot. But I really have not been interested in that many guys ; and even among those, there have only been a couple I ever even thought about being with beyond making out. He is the first guy that I genuinely thought I would consider having intercourse with. (there were a couple I might have considered at getting to that point at some point in the future but nothing ever come of it and in those cases I was thinking committed exclusive "typical" relationship)

With some of the earlier comments I was thinking that maybe at some point in the future if we are both in the "right place". But I really never would consider being with a married man.

So is it possible that he really is not married? how can I know for sure.?
How do I tell him about seeing his post - "hey btw I went to the forum at the site you sent. I read your posts....." (..you know that ones where you talked about X as your wife?)

I assume most here will not judge - I hope not - because it seems like especially if they are not married and if she really refuses to be intimate /sexual with him that she is pushing him to find it elsewhere and I have not exactly been looking to go after married men.


(In another posts someone posted about someone else coming along - but I am not holding my breath. I am in my fifties and this is the only time I have ever been at this "place" . Maybe that is another long story/post. )

[atskitty2]

So, does this girlfriend/wife know that he is seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere, since she isn't willing to provide it? Have you talked to her individually about that?

If she is not supportive of his choice, and certainly if she knows nothing of it (my guess) then I don't think you should trust him - he is otherwise just a cheater, correct?
I'm not sure why you're stuck on the marriage part of it, as it sounds as if he's in a committed relationship, correct? They have a home together & share family time together - it doesn't sound like she's another fwb hookup?

I realize you're interested only in the sexual relationship with him, but are you prepared for the aftermath emotionally & potential revenge this woman would bring on you when she finds out?

[tinyclitt]

Time is much too short for such complications. The world is full of men who will love you and give you great sex. Find another man to have sex with.

[Justice]

So, does this girlfriend/wife know that he is seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere, since she isn't willing to provide it? Have you talked to her individually about that?

If she is not supportive of his choice, and certainly if she knows nothing of it (my guess) then I don't think you should trust him - he is otherwise just a cheater, correct?
I'm not sure why you're stuck on the marriage part of it, as it sounds as if he's in a committed relationship, correct? They have a home together & share family time together - it doesn't sound like she's another fwb hookup?

I realize you're interested only in the sexual relationship with him, but are you prepared for the aftermath emotionally & potential revenge this woman would bring on you when she finds out?

I never spoke with her and never met her. From what he's said, like asking whether I am past that point of any interest in sex, I assumed it tied to his repeated attempts to get her interested (like I said it sounds a lot like some of the posts here.)

He claims that he's only been with 4 women in the last 15-20 years and two were very long term.
Re the committed - well he does't sound very committed and again reading the post here it seems like some of the guys are only staying because they are married. Marriage to me is the big commitment -in my eyes if I slept with a married man I'd be committing adultery (even though since I am single I am not the one who made the commitment), otherwise I'd just be fornicating.

This whole thing was a bunch of huge hurdles for me. My religion and an overwhelming fear of getting pregnancy combine with never really having been in love as well as some major anxiety issues all contributed to me never getting seriously involved romantically or sexually. The death of a good friend, being past the point of getting pregnant and a guy who not was I attracted to, but seemed genuinely attracted to me (and we seem to be close to the same intellectual level )... So I started getting more open to HIM (not to wanting to jump just any guy). And he wrote the best emails on what he wanted to do with me and to me (which just pushed me over the top, it was like playing out the biggest (maybe only) fantasy that I had.
I don't know that I only want a sexual relationship - but for now it was what seemed like what I could deal with. At times I am not sure(ok I am sure it wouldn't) whether that would be in my best interest anyway.


I think my questions about how she would react and then the logistics of how we would get together and what would happen if she found out (I figured she might forgive him but attack me (your revenge comment) and I even asked if they had an open relationship. He said NO and I told him that if we went ahead that maybe SHE didn't have an open relationship but he sure as hell would be in one. (My friend thinks my questions are what make him re-think)

TO Tinyclitt .. see above it is not about me just wanting sex with just anyone - as I said it was like it took all kinds of factors coming at just the right time with the right person. In my head I really doubt that I will be having sex with him ever. But what is sadder for me is that now I want to have sex but likely it will be only solo.

This experience has messed me up. As I mentioned until I met him, I was satisfied playing with a little massager a couple times a month as a release (clit orgasm) - Now I range from constantly aroused to at least playing every day (and I have messy g-spot type, and not the simple little quickies) .



But I really do want to know whether he was playing me the whole time and now regrets it (he did apologize for getting me so turned on and then pulling back) - or or what he was thinking. I want to know if he was telling me the truth - we talked about trust (I mean he has to trust me or I could contact her and mess things up for him, even if we have not had sex - he's told me that was masturbating a lot thinking about me. He asked me what the hold up was and told me we'd proceed on my terms) I want to know if he is married - to know whether he lied to me. Since they are not married (I am assuming) and his reasons for staying together seem awfully weak - to me - I just need to know. Not knowing the truth drives me crazy. If he is married then I know he lied to me. (as I wrote that I realize that some/most would say he is lying to her, so why not to me? But I just keep thinking that if I were with a guy - and not married - and he kept trying to meet my needs and I refused to try to meet any of his, that if I loved him, I would at least try to find a way to make him happy.

[DreamP346]

This man is married. Just because it wasn't done in a church, it doesn't matter. Living together already makes them legally domestic partners and similar rights are a married couple. Owning a house together means they are already financially connected. The fact that he continues to stay with her even after the intimacy is gone means he is emotionally connected and invested in her. All the makings of a marriage are there. Doesn't matter if a priest wasn't involved or they didn't sign papers.

I know this is hard to accept, but move on. This man has a lot of baggage. If you have sex with him, you WILL be interfering with his relationship. He may not be married, but the fact he used the world "wife" means he already regards her as one. The longer you hang around him, fantasizing, being friends, you are just making it harder on yourself. Cut the cord completely.

[Stillness]

I hate to sound biblethumpy, but there is a reason that morality is attached to sex. It can be a lot of fun, create bonds, and bring new life into the world or it can just wreak absolute havoc on your mind, body, and relationships. So, ultimately it's about practicality. While certain people may be sexually exciting, it's just not practical to have sex with them. It's nearly impossible not to get bad results.

What I do is put floating "trouble" signs over attractive women's heads in my mind to remind myself of this fact. It doesn't matter how pretty, charming, or intelligent they are or how much of a connection we have. My brain has marked them as a dead end so my heart doesn't even bother going down that road.

It's easy for me because every woman but my bride is off limits. It's harder when you're single, horny, and a bit desperate. I've been there along with all of the stupidity that comes with inexperience. I think you've been around long enough to know trouble on an intellectual level. All of the signs are there. When it's the right person, you just don't have to ask the things you're asking. You've just got to get your heart lined up with your brain and follow it. I think it's unlikely that you won't regret it if you don't.

[tinyclitt]

I didn't mean have love and sex with just anyone. I mean with a man just like the one you're complaining about, only that doesn't have any of the problems this one does. They are out there and can be found. It just takes effort. You don't have to be content only playing with yourself when you can have a man to play with too.

[Justice]

Most people I know consider Married different than in a relationship

This man is married. Just because it wasn't done in a church, it doesn't matter. Living together already makes them legally domestic partners and similar rights are a married couple. Owning a house together means they are already financially connected. The fact that he continues to stay with her even after the intimacy is gone means he is emotionally connected and invested in her. All the makings of a marriage are there. Doesn't matter if a priest wasn't involved or they didn't sign papers.

I know this is hard to accept, but move on. This man has a lot of baggage. If you have sex with him, you WILL be interfering with his relationship. He may not be married, but the fact he used the world "wife" means he already regards her as one. The longer you hang around him, fantasizing, being friends, you are just making it harder on yourself. Cut the cord completely.

Well I still want to know if he is REALLY Married - not "assumed" to be married.
My friend that I discuss this with has been living with her guy for many years. She gets annoyed when people call her BF her husband or spouse. She says if she wanted to get married she would and she corrects people who keep insisting on calling him her spouse.

It is his house - he is the only owner - she lives there now but it is his house (and he almost sounded like guilt when he used the house as a reason why they are together - like he'd hate to leave her without a home and she hardly works). He has repeatedly told me that he is not married and when I checked the county records there is no record of a marriage license (but of course that is only for this county. And I know where her family is from but those records are not easily available).

There was ONE place where he called her his wife and he was in a very emotional place one day quite some time ago - on a forum. When he first asked my status - he asked single, married or in a relationship and when I asked back he said relationship (so it seems like he distinguishes between them). This was early on before he knew me very well at all; so I could have been the type to react to both status' as equal, he wouldn't have known yet. I know plenty of people who don't agree that "in a relationship" means the same thing as married. There is a reason they are different. So I don't agree with that part of your post. (And while I have never been "the other woman" I HATE when women blame the other woman - when if there was a commitment made, it was by the guy. )

In one regard you are probably right that it would be better for me to move on - but I just don't know that I can yet. I tend to get hooked and the feelings only go away with time or when something or someone else comes along to make it easier. (And yes he has baggage, but I have some of my own - although very different- he was great about it and it was endearing.)

[Justice]

Well religion had been a big part of the reason - early on especially - why I avoided relationships. Where I ma from there was so much pressure to have sex. I developed early and guys immediately zeroed in on my breasts and I wanted the fantasy yet to remain chaste.

In fact when this guy first wrote me after we met, I was scared to "engage". I honestly don't know why my attitude changed...like I said a lot was going on (my oldest friend had just died, I had moved, and other things going on). But it felt freeing to be past worrying about pregnancy and whether this was a guy I was ready to get into a romantic relationship with.

I added in another post that I was also taking a new med for anxiety at the time... and I don't know for sure whether the med contributed or not but it was like a switch and years of being almost asexual just got tossed aside. So I hope some can see why this is extra hard and I really don't foresee there being anyone else coming along anytime in the foreseeable future.

I know I'll have to get over him. I I do. I still like to have information though. (I have helped other women friends check out new guys, and am annoyed that Iam now in a similar place.)

BTW I am not trying to be argumentative.... I do appreciate the sharing of info and opinions.

[moderniste]

To the OP: You are concentrating way to much on wondering if he's technically married or not. I think the real issue is admitting to yourself that you are more into this guy than you let on. Reading between the lines of your post, you keep mentioning that if he wasn't involved that you could see yourself with him, and that you highly value the "friendship" bonds you think you've built with him, then you make a big deal about insisting that you are just as casual as he is and you don't want a relationship. I understand why you'd say that--no one wants to be the one in the relationship who likes the other person more, or be in danger of being dumped.

Also, you said that he went from emailing you daily to very infrequently. In guy talk, this means he's moved on and is just being polite. When a guy is interested, he'll chase you up and down, trying hard to win you. When they stop chasing, they're not into it anymore. I suspect that you may have come across as too needy, or already relying on him for your sexual happiness, when he is clearly looking for basically an unpaid escort, with no real intimacy, since he seems to get companionship from the woman who is currently in his life.

It doesn't sound like you are really that interested in purely casual sex, though you've put up a brave front to this guy because you so desparately want to convince him that you're cool; you're "down" with it. If you wanted the purely casual sex he's insisting upon, you don't need to nurture a complicated internet relationship to find it; we women can go out and score quick casual sex without even batting an eye. You've put a lot of time into this guy, and now you are clearly invested with him--it's obvious by your emotion-filled, urgent posts on this forum. You wouldn't even be here asking questions if you were still at that "casual" stage. Be honest with yourself about the extent of your feelings for him and don't just reflexively tell yourself that you're just being casual, and let your eyes open up to the fact that he's pulled away and isn't really worth the energy to win back anyways.