[loves_loving]

Greetings all...this may be a long one,

I just joined this afternoon. I am quite concerned about a recent discovery and would like to get advice or info from the women (or men who experienced anything similar) on this forum. I have used this forum in the past and found the info and input extremely helpful. This time, however, I searched the forums and i could not find anything that really fit so i decided to sign up and post.

Background (may have some irrelevant info):

I am a 36 year old Asian male (born and raised in the US). i have been married to my lovely wife (born and raised in Japan) for 11 years and have a couple wonderful children. I have never cheated on her and I am a very focused and selfless lover. I acknowledge and respect that for a woman to really have a great experience making love, many factors come into play so from foreplay to getting dressed, i do everything i can to cater to these needs...we both orgasm or nobody does. We also make it a point to talk about everything for we both feel that communication is key in a long lasting and loving relationship. We both grew up in different worlds and have had very different sexual experiences. I was a bit promiscuous while she, from what I can deduce, had a more conservative sex life. I added the remark about uncertainty because this, sex and previous experiences, is the one thing she is very reluctant to talk about. I know that this is certainly a topic that many are uncomfortable in sharing with a current partner, so I expected a certain level of evasion...however, no matter how it is brought up in talking, she gets VERY...umm...i guess apprehensive, mad or angry (cant really describe it well).

Concern #1

This has been the case for as long as i can remember. At the beginning, it didnt seem like she really enjoyed having sex. She displayed the physiological responses to being aroused, but wasn't very into it. When we talked about it, she admitted that she really doesn't really like having sex and was doing it to make me feel good. She went on to say that that was how she viewed sex...as "something she did for the significant other." Needless to say, I found that unacceptable and, though she was apprehensive about it at first, we tried many different methods so she could enjoy how pleasurable love making can be and not think of it as just another "chore." After much time (and toys, adult movies and just for her sessions), it seemed she started to enjoy it much more. Things seemed to be on the right path...she orgasms every time (with the exception of some quickies) and has told me verbally and via physiology that she enjoys it a lot more than she used to. However, she still states she really isn't into sex and almost never initiates. She also says that things in general don't make her, for the lack of a better word, "horny." For example, one time, I said to her, "doesn't that make you want to have some playtime in the bedroom?"...to which she responded that she has never felt that way about anything. She, to some degree, still views sex as a "chore" instead of a way to dispel stress, relieve any tension and relax. Though things were getting seemingly better for some time, things seem to have plateaued.........then there was this recent discovery.

Concern #2

One day, i woke up early and discovered my wife violently masturbating with her fingers and watching porn. At the time, I didn't think much of it so i went back to sleep so she could have her privacy. Since then, I have encountered this quite frequently. It could be that I just noticed more or it may be a new thing (not sure). Anyway, she does this every couple days or so, sometimes back to back. I saw how much she was enjoying it from the intensity so i have not said a word in fear that it may disrupt and embarrass. What really concerns me is that if she truly isnt into sex and doesnt get horny, what would drive her to do this? Secondly, she seems to do it most regularly on days we are going to make love...that morning and the morning after. On days she says she doesn't want to have a full love making session for one reason or another but offers to "relieve" me, she is taking care of business herself in the morning and the next morning.

--just a small tidbit but may not be relevant...she surprisingly did some trimming up without any provocation (usually takes a bit of negotiation because it is itchy when it grows back)...she hinted to me about it (which really turned me on)...but though neither of us were unusually busy or anything she didn't want to make love and by the time we did, it was all grown back...rare because we usually make love 3-4 times a week.

SO if it were one or the other (in terms of concerns), I could probably live and accept it to some degree...but with the two combined, it has me worried. My mind is going a bit off the far end and thinking...cheating? Extremely bad previous experience that turned her off to sex? or extremely good experience that left sex with any other person a bore? Am i just being close minded to be unable to fathom any healthy person not being into or enjoying sex?


I hope someone can shed some light on this situation...please help.

[jns]

If you are taught as a child that sex is a chore, then it is likely that your going to view it as a chore. What she does to please herself is probably something she wasn't taught about or was taught that it is dirty. So she can release, because it isn't a chore.

[loves_loving]

thanks for the response. She was never taught that sex is a chore...actually sex is not something that is talked about very much at all in Japan (between parent and children). She is of the generation where casual and premarital sex was the more the norm than it was to save oneself until marriage (which i also very much respect). Thanks again for the response. I hope my post wasnt too long and is the reason for the lack of responses.

[jns]

It's possible that she wasn't taught sex is a chore directly, rather indirectly under the umbrella of taking care of the needs of her man.

Responses from others will come, give it a little time.

My wife is Thai. I met and married her in Thailand. Her first time out of Thailand and Laos was after we were married. She has commented about genitals being "dirty". I believe that came from what she was taught as a child. From what I have seen amongst others in Thailand, I don't believe that idea is particularly widespread.

I take it that you mean when she trims or shaves, the hair growing back is itchy to her. At a certain length, trimmed hair on an Asian lady can be quite itchy to the giver when giving her oral sex.

I think her trimming may be related to the porn as trimmed pubic hair is common in porn (I recently read an article that indicated that longer pubic hair is making a comeback).

She sound like a lady on a mission to sexually find herself rather than one cheating or any other such thing.

[Stillness]

What does "violently masturbating" mean? Does it mean she was being very rough with it?

I'll tell you what my first thought is based on a recent personal experience. My wife and I have settled into a sexual pattern over the years. It's largely because she claims that sex wears her out. So when we have it, we end up mostly doing the things that progress towards climax for her. It's not extremely exciting, but I enjoy it enough and I've tried to do more, but she doesn't seem to be too interested.

A few weeks ago our regular deal went down, but she seemed to want more. I took this as my cue to do something different. I did it to her so hard that I was afraid of hurting one of us...I'd say it was "violent."

She loved it! She didn't want me to stop. In fact, I'm sad to say that I couldn't do as much as she wanted. She liked it so much that I think it is part of the reason that she recently agreed to have sex with me every day. I think she got a glimpse of what I've been trying to tell her it could be between us.

I'm saying all of this to ask if you ever do it "violently" and passionately? It may, be that she's trying to get something privately that you're not giving her when you're together.

I don't think what you posted says anything about infidelity, although I'm not quick to downplay a husband's intuition regarding his wife. I think you should be really careful with that kind of suspicion, though.

[Frustratedwoman]

Has your wife ever heard of the term asexuality? Her never finding anything that makes her "horny" (I assume as in wanting to have partnered sex), finding sex as a chore to do for a SO and being able to physically enjoy but still not want to initiate all sounds very much like many of the people that identify with that orientation (though, as with any, it would be her decision if it fits or not). At the least, you could find an explanation of the difference between wanting sex and enjoying porn by looking into it - many asexuals use pornography as a visual aid to masturbation (since they still have a libido) but never have any interest in partnered sex with anyone, even their spouses. Just because she is looking at porn, doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong or that she is even upset with the arrangement. Some people just aren't really into partnered sex.

[loves_loving]

What does "violently masturbating" mean? Does it mean she was being very rough with it?

I'll tell you what my first thought is based on a recent personal experience. My wife and I have settled into a sexual pattern over the years. It's largely because she claims that sex wears her out. So when we have it, we end up mostly doing the things that progress towards climax for her. It's not extremely exciting, but I enjoy it enough and I've tried to do more, but she doesn't seem to be too interested.

A few weeks ago our regular deal went down, but she seemed to want more. I took this as my cue to do something different. I did it to her so hard that I was afraid of hurting one of us...I'd say it was "violent."

She loved it! She didn't want me to stop. In fact, I'm sad to say that I couldn't do as much as she wanted. She liked it so much that I think it is part of the reason that she recently agreed to have sex with me every day. I think she got a glimpse of what I've been trying to tell her it could be between us.

I'm saying all of this to ask if you ever do it "violently" and passionately? It may, be that she's trying to get something privately that you're not giving her when you're together.

I don't think what you posted says anything about infidelity, although I'm not quick to downplay a husband's intuition regarding his wife. I think you should be really careful with that kind of suspicion, though.

Thanks for the response stillness. To clarify, her masturbating was very animated and I guess it could also be described as rough. I have on many occasions introduced some new "play," including very rough sex, in order to keep things fresh and also in hopes that one day I will try something that brings on the inferno. I am also always on the lookout for hints or clues she may drop about what she may want to try.

I can relate to the situation you were in prior to you getting the cue (still waiting for mine). All i really want is for her to see how great lovemaking can be and to enjoy it as much as i do...but at the same time, i do not want to push so hard that it has the opposite effect. In my, perhaps unrealistic, opinion, Sex is not complete nor is it really making love unless both (especially the female) are emotionally and physically satisfied. I keep thinking that if i do something or time something just right she will understand what I mean. I hope I am not being too close minded about it...

As far as the thought of cheating or anything of that genre is concerned, there is a bigger possibility of this whole thing being part of a mind control conspiracy involving a yeti, chupacabra and galvatron. Not going to completely eliminate it, but that card goes away unless there is absolute, undeniable evidence.

Thank you and I very much appreciate your input.

[loves_loving]

Has your wife ever heard of the term asexuality? Her never finding anything that makes her "horny" (I assume as in wanting to have partnered sex), finding sex as a chore to do for a SO and being able to physically enjoy but still not want to initiate all sounds very much like many of the people that identify with that orientation (though, as with any, it would be her decision if it fits or not). At the least, you could find an explanation of the difference between wanting sex and enjoying porn by looking into it - many asexuals use pornography as a visual aid to masturbation (since they still have a libido) but never have any interest in partnered sex with anyone, even their spouses. Just because she is looking at porn, doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong or that she is even upset with the arrangement. Some people just aren't really into partnered sex.

Thanks for the response. That is an interesting angle. After reading your post, I did some preliminary research on asexuality. It seems that mainstream science has only recently even considered this as a real orientation...seems most are on the fence though (as expected). From what i have read in a few journals, there are many parts that "fit," but some that don't. I need to do more research about this, but I think that since there is really no means to diagnose/determine if this is the case, I would hate to spring this on her...coming from a culture where being different (not part of the group) is stigmatized, I would not want to cause her any ill feelings about herself.......many many eggshells

[Frustratedwoman]

Thanks for the response. That is an interesting angle. After reading your post, I did some preliminary research on asexuality. It seems that mainstream science has only recently even considered this as a real orientation...seems most are on the fence though (as expected). From what i have read in a few journals, there are many parts that "fit," but some that don't. I need to do more research about this, but I think that since there is really no means to diagnose/determine if this is the case, I would hate to spring this on her...coming from a culture where being different (not part of the group) is stigmatized, I would not want to cause her any ill feelings about herself.......many many eggshells

Yes, the DSM in the U.S. just accepted it as not being mentally ill and an actual orientation option last year, after a world wide campaign and a 75 page document, along with expert testimony. It was a hard won battle. Psychology is beginning to slowly accept it now. It's still relatively new, even though there are people in their 60s that have just been lacking a label/movement and identified as things such as "non-sexual" for their lives. Even in the states, it isn't a very well accepted thing, so I can understand not wanting to spring it on her as an option. As with any orientation, it's not something science knows how to prove, so it's a "if you think this fits, call yourself this". But, a lot of the things you are saying she told you sound extremely familiar.

But, it would be a good place, even if your wife doesn't want to label herself at all or doesn't feel it exactly fits, to hear some experiences of people who love porn, love masturbation and still don't really like sex all that much. I just figured you might be able to ask some questions and sort things out in your head to speak to your wife about if you could hear from a variety of people who share that. Many of them having partners that they adore and want to spend their lives with, without really wanting sex with them (though many can enjoy it / orgasm during, they just have no interest in initiating or seeking it out at all for themselves). Just avoid the internet communities that are very sex-negative. The "official" visibility network is very accepting of everyone, whether they love sex or hate it, as long as everyone can treat each other with respect.

I identify as asexual, but I am not into pornography or masturbation, so I can't really help offer any insight on that. I feel the same way your wife does about sex though - I don't like to initiate, it can be OK but for the most part it's just something I do for my partner. I can be physically stimulated, even orgasm, but it's still not an activity I am going to seek out. And if left to myself, without my partner wanting it, I probably would never have it again. It doesn't mean I don't love him, or want him in many ways, just not the sexual way. Lack of interest in partnered sex doesn't always mean cheating, or your partner doesn't love you, or even that your partner doesn't find you attractive. It could just mean she isn't that into sex. It really can be that simple. So, don't let your mind wander off to really bad places without your wife giving you a reason to. If she says she loves you, wants you and is happy to sexually please you, then I would say if she hasn't given you a reason to not trust her - just trust her. Keep trying to talk about it, open communication is important, but don't think the worst.

[rcoreyus]

Frustratedwoman, I don't know if you are in a relationship, but if you are, how would you feel about your partner seeking sex elsewhere - but remaining in a close relationship with you?

I think one of the issues that makes sex such a difficult problem is the assumption of exclusivity - so that when one partner has minimal interest in sex, the other has to do without.