[rebellee47]

CarolineWH,

I have to give it to you "Go Girl" you are brutilly honest to say the least and have a great way with words to get right to the point!! I was looking at it from a mans view and not wanting to hurt feelings but I am more used to having to tip toe around them with my wife so my advice was one man to another on how I would do it . You have a much better view and basically are telling him to tell her to wake up and smell the roses so to speak .

I still would try to get her off somewhere alone but if not I would then do as you suggested and tell her what I felt and shame on her if she doesnt comply....Lee

[C]

CarolineWH,

I have to give it to you "Go Girl" you are brutilly honest to say the least and have a great way with words to get right to the point!! I was looking at it from a mans view and not wanting to hurt feelings but I am more used to having to tip toe around them with my wife so my advice was one man to another on how I would do it . You have a much better view and basically are telling him to tell her to wake up and smell the roses so to speak .

I still would try to get her off somewhere alone but if not I would then do as you suggested and tell her what I felt and shame on her if she doesnt comply....Lee

Hi Lee:

We women are born with the "shame" issue hanging over our head...Good girls don't do this....Don't let him touch you here, and it goes on and on...Sure we all the same sexually but in many ways I believe we are...I have a site that I write on...I did a blog. "Inhibited, the sickness women are born with" last year....My site is on my profile. I do not say this to draw people to my site but I just can't post the blog here until the blog site is up...THEN IT WILL BE HERE. It would be lost soon if I did now and you can only post one subject one time...So if anyone want to read it, it is under my NEWS page after you enter the site..I just put it on the Front Page....Please don't think I am promoting this site...I don't have to as many women already read it.

We all have the Eve syndrome...Cover thyself and sin no more...All because of an apple or whatever it was....Whatever she did, we caught it...Three years ago I threw that part of me out the door...Oh, I was good before but not like now....I am wild and in love...If a woman realized what she is missing she would not be doing what she is doing...I lead a charmed life....But I can say without any reservation that sex is the most important thing in my life and I believe this could be true of just about all women.....But they lock that door.....Many don't even try to open it.....It is their inner self that they have to good past....Their mind...The good girl telling the bad girl, who truly wants to break free, you can't do that....That is dirty.....Mother told you this long ago...Never let a man do this...Not that dirty thing in your mouth...Suck it...Bad girl.....She has to kick that babe out of her head and let the wild woman loose.....Either than or I am one of the most uninformed women in the world and just plain live in lust for a man that I adore.....Either way.....I would not sell it for a million dollars....

Oh, and I love your idea of getting away....That is where I ejaculated like mad in Orlando on the 12 floor of the Contemporary and I have never looked back....We went back the next year too......xox Caroline

[CHANDLERS WISH]

again, thanks.

We had already have had one of our kids and a little bit before the next. I know that women sometimes lose sex drive and may have issues after child birth. We have talked about it several times. About being shy, we use to shower regularly together. Every once in awhile, she will let me see her get dress and sneak a peak, but I think she is doing that just so I won't get upset. I'm not asking to be like we use too and have sex every night. I know that stats of what marriage couples do and how many times they have sex, especially after they have been married for some time. This is not the first time I have research these issues. I just want a health relationship, I think I've gone more than half ways to try to reach an agreement. I don't dare ask for anything past the norm, I don't ask for her to perform anything different anymore. Everything I do now she thinks it leads to sex and I try to tell her that thats not what I'm all about. I wish we would go get counseling, believe me, I'm ready. She has had some women issues, but she won't even go to see if there is anything to for them. After our 3rd child, she had a very good doctor and she did ask him about some issues but she wouldn't do anything about them. I've asked her to go see him but she just declines and says that I don't know what I'm talking about. I hope this message doesn't sound like I'm upset. I'm just trying to find new things to try so I won't lose hope, because that is the only thing that I think I have left.

I don't think it matters what you were both like before or how many times, as obviously you loved each other and it's obvious that you love her.

I know that i also had sex every day with my husband, and often twice for around 4 months but then i felt ahh... Only because he would just "do it" there was no passion, no kissing, touching either his hands wandered straight there or his man hood did and in the end i felt like a "piece of meat" so i had to ask him to cool it... Then try to get my head back around it again.

I basically had a few non communicative sexual relationships before him and i was dragged out of a night club and hit, thrown down a ditch by neighbours boys in a creek as i walked to school, fortunately i was never raped but as a woman? Yes both did effect me to what i thought of men, just wanting "that"...

I am a very strong woman and fortunately as i said, "they were minor" but physcologically to some women they may have been enought to tip someone over the edge. I haven't thought of either since i joined this Forum and that's the truth. But as i said, i live for today not yesterday.

But the point being, is she was sexually abused, of course she is "still a woman" and wants children, marriage but i don't think she can move past those years. She tried, she had her children, she got the marriage but the most important thing she didn't do was to get help to get over it and it in my opinion has been locked in there every since.

Each touch you give her, each flower you buy her to her, means "sex" and she is turned of by that big time, always has been in my opinion as i said, "tried" as she wanted kids and the "word" marriage...

I'm sorry but from what you are saying, it's deep... Somehow you have to become the physologist and re-train her thoughts on things, which means no sex, it means no touching, it means building a trust that she can feel comfortable with, that's " not so bad" i can do that, "he doesn't want it he wants it because he wants me"... Maybe seek that form of advice outside for yourself and see.

As i said though, i was truly beginning to think that all men just do it for themselves until i met this guy and well, he can have what he wants to be honest.

So, if she feels that you are in her catagory of men now, and that's her thoughts, problem but if she does then you are in that box with them and you have to be outside of it...

It may be good to get out with her, non threatening, where there are people like parks, sea, and just walk with her, hold her hand and talk about life, funny things, let her see the old side again without telling her that is what you are doing and all non threatening so she feels comfortable with it and keep gaging her reactions.

But this is a lot of work you have put in and a lot of work you will put in with no guarantees.

It's natural to care, it's natural to nurture 15 years is a long time but in the end, she has to start to give way and understand why she is the way she is and open up to someone...

Maybe she needs to be on here instead.....

Best wishes.

CW

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Sorry we posted at the same time.

I love Caroline's way trust me, but i don't think you tip-toed either.

I dont' believe that this threader is saying that she has lost her sex drive, rather that she has been "abused" and can not face sex as a result, let alone a touch, or let alone taking her top of.

This is not about opening that door of sexual desire as much as i also love those topics, she would probably scream rape or cry her eyes out if he went for her "baby give me head and suck me" etc.... To someone abused, sorry that is the last thing she needs.

Sorry, been there (2) times, or different situatations fortunate that it wasn't too serious for me but i understand how a woman feels if she has felt that she was sexually abused or it was about to happen and she was saved as i was, it's not about sex it's the oposite....as i posted.

CW

[C]

The one thing that I am assuming on each and every one of my posts is that there is passion and deep love for each other....Without the passion and need to please, what is marriage....I would not be content going around shaking my husband's hand the rest of his life when I was capable of having the last dance.....LOVE and deep love MUST be there to find yourself.....This is where I live...

What man would be content only shaking hands when there are so many women out there who are good women to have affairs and bed them down...These are foolish women not to keep a husband happy...Sex is what we were made for...It brings us alive...It never dies......They, with the help of some husband's, have put themselves on a pedestal and are going to fall on their faces.....Just my thoughts...

[C]

If she had her top off and was cool with it earlier in her marriage then she should be now...If anything she should be cooler...Many of us have had some sort of abuse in our life but we must let it go....I choose not to go there and proceed with life...So she had an abortion, this was not his fault...She married him because she loved him and what she did before she should be doing now...If this is true this is one of the best cope outs on women nowadays. Separate bedrooms, I will blow you but no more of you inside me, I am sick of that junky cum that you have...A woman has more excuses that a prisoner asking for a parole...I know...I am one of them...

[CHANDLERS WISH]

The one thing that I am assuming on each and every one of my posts is that there is passion and deep love for each other....Without the passion and need to please, what is marriage....I would not be content going around shaking my husband's hand the rest of his life when I was capable of having the last dance.....LOVE and deep love MUST be there to find yourself.....This is where I live...

What man would be content only shaking hands when there are so many women out there who are good women to have affairs and bed them down...These are foolish women not to keep a husband happy...Sex is what we were made for...It brings us alive...It never dies......They, with the help of some husband's, have put themselves on a pedestal and are going to fall on their faces.....Just my thoughts...

That's harsh C... This man is at the moment, he may not be for ever but at the moment he is. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of "passion" to start with, if you read what he has written. She only "occasionally" even at the beginning showed herself to him naked.

She hates men, simple, for what they did to her but has tried and can't jump over. He loves her and felt for her at that time more than likely and thought he could "change" her, or help her... It wasn't there to start with, it hasn't died...

So, i don't think she is foolish either, i get your drift but Caroline you have to see "death at your face from a man"," or be sexually abused from a man", to trully understand what abuse by a man sexually can do to a woman and that hatred inside.

Again, sorry but you are correct in other threads pertaining to women not giving it to their man.

Frankly, this thread in his heart needs to see if he can work through it ( 15 years) or not but his choice, she is not "not" giving, she "can't" give, there is a big difference where it mentally effects a person....If he can't do anymore then he may very well go, i have suggested he did earlier, and get the love he deserves and deserved and realise with all his good intentions along the way, he was never going to be able to "change her", because she will not and has not seeked the help she needed and still needs to get those bad images out of her head and heal for the stress and pain of it all, as it would be....

CW

[C]

If she was? truly abused by a man, as she says, then they should not be married. She never should have married him...No doctor is going to fix her nor anyone else. I thought he said earlier in their marriage that they were sexual daily. That tells me that they were close. They showered together...There are also many patterns of a woman wanting out...CW so many women play this game as they age...They are sick of sex because they hated it to start. They marry a man to marry a man...They tolerate a man and many would love to spend their life with him and it would be wonderful as long as they do not go near them sexually. This is more of an epedemic that people realize. I stick up for women and love them but so many also can make a man miserable who loves them and I cannot be in the mind of this woman....I am but one of you women...No more knowledge than anyone of you...Don't ever put me there....I am but one of many here...

[rebellee47]

For the question about our relationship in the beginning: We were very intimate for about the first 5 years. Even thou we had kids, we would still make time for each other.

About being shy, we use to shower regularly together

I'm just trying to find new things to try so I won't lose hope, because that is the only thing that I think I have left.


These are the reasons for the suggestions I gave , I do agree with CarolineWH but I also see Chandlers view somewhat from the abused side.

I am new to this and probably should be even posting but I thought I could help . I didnt suggest he was tip toeing I stated that I tip toed for a while around my wifes feelings and based on that , this was the point of view my suggestions were coming from. The last thing I would want to do is give some bad suggestions because I know I am not qualified to give advice especially since you both seem to help so many . Sorry..Lee

[CHANDLERS WISH]

If she was? truly abused by a man, as she says, then they should not be married. She never should have married him...No doctor is going to fix her nor anyone else. I thought he said earlier in their marriage that they were sexual daily. That tells me that they were close. They showered together...There are also many patterns of a woman wanting out...CW so many women play this game as they age...They are sick of sex because they hated it to start. They marry a man to marry a man...They tolerate a man and many would love to spend their life with him and it would be wonderful as long as they do not go near them sexually. This is more of an epedemic that people realize. I stick up for women and love them but so many also can make a man miserable who loves them and I cannot be in the mind of this woman....I am but one of you women...No more knowledge than anyone of you...Don't ever put me there....I am but one of many here...

I guess only he knows if she was a "timid" sexual person those first 5 years and he had to win her trust.

Or, if she was a "hungry" sexual intimate person those first 5 years and then changed, utilising that as an excuse, the past.

So, i see your point.

You know that i also hate women that don't give a **** for their man and are non giving.

The beauty about being different is you have different opinions and people can whey both up, so your opinion may be correct as well, you have seen a lot of that side, i of course, looking at it from the abuse side.

He may know that answer which one and we may have given him a thought to think about....

But i see your point...

CW