[Wednesday L.F.]

Hi Ace, what you describe sounds very frustrating. Everyone deserves intimacy and to feel wanted. If your wife is unwilling or unable to meet your needs, maybe it’s time to discuss opening up your marriage.

The fact is, you having legitimate needs doesn’t obligate her to meet them for you. Plenty of couples are happy in low-sex or even sexless marriages. But as that’s clearly not what you want, the impetus may fall to you to seek out what you need. Have you considered this? If so, the next step would be discussing it with your wife. Know couples who feel closer after opening their marriage. You might too.

[Acesup]

Thanks Wednesday. I know I probably sounded rambling and crazy but yes I am very frustrated and hopeless.

I am in a weird position. She is able to meet my needs if she would just try. Not to blame her but the problem is in her head. When she is drunk enough to lower her mountains of inhibition or when she used to let me give her a massage or do something to get her warmed up and into it enough to stop thinking about it as a duty or stop thinking about how gross she thinks everything sexual is and just be in the moment we very much have fiery sexual chemistry and I very much make her cum and she very much meets my needs. But she literally fights me on getting to that point and keeps taking away every little tip and trick I’ve learned about her body over the years when she figures out I’m doing it to give her pleasure and has taken away every form of foreplay. I literally have to trick my wife into foreplay and sneak in clitoral stimulation through whatever tricks and positions I’ve figured out over the years to try to literally almost trick her into getting into the mood so I have a chance of getting her off. I used to always get her on top because she seemed to cum almost every time like that but she stopped wanting to get on top anymore because she said it hurts her shoulders and I couldn’t argue with that.
But when she is out of her own head and in the moment she is the hottest woman alive. It’s just become so hard to get her there so I’ve become less effective at overcoming her barriers.
So she can meet my needs if she would just try to get into it. And I would be patient and willing to compromise if she showed some effort to overcome the issues she cited as her reasons. That would show me it’s important to her if she went to sex therapy or talked to a doctor or whatever it takes to make progress.
But she doesn’t even care enough to try and fight for our sex life. That is what hurts. Like you said she’s unwilling.

I have thought about open relationship before. I am in a weird position when it comes to that. Prior to getting married I spent like 10 years with mostly FWB relationships and often being the other guy for couples that had open marriages or wanted a guy for a threesome. So I’m familiar with that dynamic. It was hot from the outside but to be honest o saw it destroy a lot of marriages. I saw mostly couples using it as a band aid for not fixing their problems and thinking just banging other people would solve their problems. I saw almost every couple supposedly negotiated boundaries and in almost every case one or both of them would still violate those boundaries. Often couples were only supposed to play together but I still saw the girl on the side. It’s like open relationships bred selfishness and exploitation. So I kind of find it hard to trust that it wouldn’t go bad and we wouldn’t get hurt. And to be honest I don’t want another man to touch her. I can satisfy her just fine if she’d just let me, it’s kill me for some other guy to make her climax when I know I could be all she needs if she would just relax and let me. There is no such thing as a one way open relationship so I couldn’t ask her to let me have sex with other girls and not allow her to sleep with other guys.

I don’t know getting so frustrated it might come to that though.

[Wednesday L.F.]

Wow. That sounds really difficult.
If she’s in pain (we can’t all perform like we did in our 20s) that should be addressed first. Any number of things could be preventing her relaxing and enjoying herself. Do you know what could be causing it?

It seems unlikely that she “just isn’t trying.” What you describe sounds like there are some barriers there. Is she in menopause?

I wish you the best in figuring this out.

[kev]

hi acesup
such long &thoughtful notes youve written , unusual and expressive. i read& re read them, thought a while over it. it is so very difficult to know /advise because i am not there to see/feel whats transpiring, sence the vibe between you two . people are infinitely complex, & relationships perhaps the most delicate of all undertakings really bring out our own quirks, contradictions, entanglements also our individual pasts , our experiences from childhood, how all this has profoundly affected & continues to affect the way we perveive lovers and ourselves, how we navigated relationships because of it. ace, often things are not as they appear on the surface. all this said, my intuition is ringing in my ear, suggesting that whats truly driving this in her, in you , in your dynamic all combined remains cloaked. there is ,i sense, a lot behind whats happened to & with her feelings about herself, about it all . its also quite possible that shes either unable to gather a sense of it, or has a clue but wont face it & so is not being honest and also accurate about the how& why of her reality with sex+you. we humans have an infinite capacity for self deception, because facing things is often too emotionally painful. the aforementioned is what im sensing. the things you write that she says appear as smokescreen for the real underlying issues. what these are i can not say. likely its a tangled ball of yarn requiring great patience over tome to see, likely rooted in emotional intimacy issues aceup, some if which is manifested in how your your sex lives unfurl. the things you write as your attitude& responses clearly express how you see your part in all this but she may be interpreting you & it all very differently than you see/portray yourself in all this. my point here is that part of the problem may rest in your long standing relational dynamics & how that is informed by each of your pasts, the confluence feeding , perhaps perpetuating whats happening in your sex lives, again, a reflection of your emotional intimacy together, the relative health of it as each of you feel it. consider this deeply. such things can become off radar because we as couples get so used to how we behave with one another that we cannot stand back far enough to see clearer, the big picture. in summary then i sense whats driving all this has not been put on the table. further, i sense its rooted in your unique& complex dynamics as a couple, something to question deeply. often fear motivates all manner of insecurities & walls we put up between us and others. lastly i sense emotional intimacy is not present between you both , triggering all manner of words, rationales and reasons that are likely apart from the root problem(s) you two are having. couples who are intimate , emotionally speaking, routinely trust enough ,display the courage to be vulnerable with one another because to do so offers the greatest chance for honesty, understanding, acceptance & some aspect of a path toward resolution.

[WowWhoKnew]

I have thought about open relationship before. Prior to getting married I spent like 10 years with mostly FWB relationships and often being the other guy for couples that had open marriages or wanted a guy for a threesome. So I’m familiar with that dynamic. It was hot from the outside but to be honest I saw it destroy a lot of marriages. I saw mostly couples using it as a band aid for not fixing their problems and thinking just banging other people would solve their problems. I saw almost every couple supposedly negotiated boundaries and in almost every case one or both of them would still violate those boundaries. Often couples were only supposed to play together but I still saw the girl on the side. It’s like open relationships bred selfishness and exploitation. So I kind of find it hard to trust that it wouldn’t go bad and we wouldn’t get hurt. And to be honest I don’t want another man to touch her. I can satisfy her just fine if she’d just let me, it’d kill me for some other guy to make her climax when I know I could be all she needs if she would just relax and let me. There is no such thing as a one way open relationship so I couldn’t ask her to let me have sex with other girls and not allow her to sleep with other guys.

I don’t know getting so frustrated it might come to that though.

WOW!

Crazy stuff.

I feel for you.

I put my husband through that for a while. Sad to hear about it for the two of you.

For me it was grieving. I was grieving for a deep loss. It took years. Many many years. My husband & I both thought I'd completed the process. It took some great counseling to figure it out and then classes on how to walk through to finish the process.

Back to your topic - For years of going through the motions of sex (and very little of it), I stressed my husband to your point. We are so NOT swingers, our background, lifestyle, morals, nothing would ever lead us to what you wrote about, or so we thought. It finally got to the point where he flat out told me, "I don't know what to do. I feel tied up inside all the time. I hurt for you. I hurt for us. I hurt for me, then I feel guilty and selfish for that. I can't live like this anymore. I need to be free from guilt of wanting sex with my wife but not getting it once every 2-3 months." I hurt for him and us. I had no idea what was wrong with me. No one we spoke to helped us. I decided to set him free. Telling him of my love, he is my best friend, I never want to separate but I get it, he is an extremely sexual person and our relationship was killing him the way it is.

I asked him if he'd be willing to have sex with others? Even men. No joke, those were options we'd been counseled to look into. He thought I was kidding. Then the long discussion took place. Things we'd never in a million years discuss, yet we did.

We'd even been counseled that me having a new sexual partner might stoke my fires. I already have an incredible guy and had difficulty mustering up for sex with him. Did I want him with have sex with another woman? NO WAY but what to do...

We landed on couples with me present. How to find them? Took forever it seemed and a very long vetting process but eventually we found several. As we grew to know them all so much had gone wrong in their lifestyle with each. Most of them were bi. That shocked us a bit. The ladies wanted me to participate and the men of course wanted, well you know... NO WAY.

There was a great deal of give and take talk, negotiated over many months of hanging out with each couple, and in small groups. It appeared to be a great deal of give, giving up our morals, our intimacy, our relationship, doing things my husband was not comfortable with to get very little in return. The meetings grew more sexual in talk and my husband and I sat down alone to discuss the pros and cons. I was not having sex with the men but I had to be available for the ladies? Yeah I know. I am not like that. I have never been with a girl. Never thought about it. I felt weird about it. But each couple said they were more comfortable if I were naked and available. I didn't have to do anything.

My husband would get to have intercourse with the ladies if they were up for it (what does that mean), he'd get blowjobs by someone (who, was not clarified then), he could get all the anal sex he wanted as often as he wanted but it was definitely going to be men (that was NOT going to happen), it seemed as though he'd get to do threesomes with the wives and their husbands but that included a great deal of bi play even possibly penetration (OH That is So Not Going to Happen).

Summing it all up, it was not what we'd envisioned. We approached each couple with our summary, they all agreed with our assessment thinking it fits and flows perfectly with the emphasis on I was available for extra. We pressed them all about that. Come to find out not only were they all about the men doing more with the men they were more about the ladies being with the ladies. When we put our foot down about "couples" they said that does happen but in more of a bisexual threesome with two ladies playing more with the man there was an *** needed implement. Or two men focusing on the lady until she has had her fill and shares them with each other.

Now that my brain is thinking more along the lines of this craziness. I could never see my husband with another woman without another man or woman. Threesomes made them most sense but to make that work he had to be willing to give A LOT, and I mean A LOT. All that being said, after all the months and talk, I'd rather see him in the two male one female threesome even if he had to do what he had to do. I know craziness. I told him my thoughts. He said he couldn't do it. He was there for more sex sure, but with ladies, not "dudes" as he put it. I don't want you with just ladies even if they are into each other, I can't handle seeing you alone with just ladies. He asked, "Then what do we do? We've spent all this time, energy, they are all nice people, we all want to have sex, and have it often, it's what you and I've been discussing and working towards. What about me and another guy having sex with you?" Reminding him I was barely agreeing to be naked or half nude in the same room watching. "I just can't do those things with guys" He stated. I get it. I got it. I can't even picture that happening. I had no answer.

We spoke openly, honestly with each couple. They understood. Three of the wives said, "Why not come and watch us, see what happen, see how you feel, come back watch again, take some time to process, and we can all talk again?" "Great idea," the husbands agreed. We set a date.

They kept it light for over an hour. It was like watching live porn being acted out in front of us. When the two threesomes formed it was interesting. I loved the flow, all was going well as couples worked together, once the women begin doing more with each other, and the men did as well in the other threesome, it got very awkward for the both of us. It all ended fine. Eye opening to say the least. Honestly I was in a bit of a shell shock. Not a word from my husband. We took a few weeks. We spoke very little of it, still processing it all. The next get together I was told by one of the ladies they were not holding back and she asked if we'd consider being only in towels.

One of the couples had reach out to us coming over to talk. When we didn't open up about anything the wife flat out told me that her husband thought I was super hot and wanted to F me then and there. I acted as if it didn't phase me. I told my husband and he asked if I would. "And let you F her alone, No Way!" I said. He meant in the same room side by side. I was put out, walking in the room with the couple, "I hear you want to F me right here and now. Can my husband do whatever he wants with your wife beside us as we do? And I do mean anything? Anything he wants to do?" Caught everyone off guard. He stammered, they glanced back and forth, "What does anything mean?" I answered, "We are looking to get into this lifestyle for my husband, he wants sex buddies. If we are going to do this then he should get to do everything and anything his heart desires with at least one wife for as long as he wants. I figure a few days worth of sex. She could spend the night and they can go at it al weekend, Oral, Vagina, Anal, Cum Play, Toys, probably massive toys (we didn't even have any). I was a bit perturbed. Needless to say they scampered out of there rather quickly.

My husband asked, "What just happened?

"I don't think this is going to work out for us honey. We are going to have to find another solution," I said.

We went to the last gathering. Yes it was our last. It was such so much more about same sex play than anything. We saw things I still can't get out of my mind. We didn't even know you could do some of those things, or that someone ever would. NOT for US!.

We didn't leave until everyone was worn slap out. That was the entertaining part. We were both hit on throughout. I thought my husband was going to give in several times but the guy action discouraged him.

End of the evening and we went home. We talked about it all for months. Letting the couples know we truly appreciated everything, love to hang out, but the sex thing was not going to happen. Surprisingly my husband was not frustrated by it all. The men contacted him asking if he'd at least be up for bjs, hjs, he politely declined. The ladies asked if they could come over as couples to play, we declined. We still hang out with them occasionally, listen, learn, but they all seem to have a great deal of dissatisfaction in their lives, particularly sexually. One by one each has come to us asking if we'd do a threesome, us and them (not what we were told they agreed to as couples).

I have to run back to work but will continue the conversation into what we found that worked for us.

[jns]

WowWhoKnew, an interesting story. I am interested in the next part. It seems like you found a lot of people having sex among the swingers but not having sex in a way that either you nor your husband were comfortable with. I had a number of partners when I was young and single but found having sex in a marriage more satisfying.

[WowWhoKnew]

WowWhoKnew, an interesting story. I am interested in the next part. It seems like you found a lot of people having sex among the swingers but not having sex in a way that either you nor your husband were comfortable with. I had a number of partners when I was young and single but found having sex in a marriage more satisfying.

I agree. We agree. Going that route is not the way for a marriage to head. I/we are so glad we didn't go that way. I think it would have done great harm to us.

[WowWhoKnew]

I don’t know getting so frustrated it might come to that though.

One of the men had a wonderful heart to heart with us sharing his thoughts about us. He said we were built for a monogamous marriage not his lifestyle and that we should explore all we can do as a couple within a marriage. We thought we had. He gave us ideas we had never thought of, using sex toys, devices, and so forth. We needed something to keep us going while we figure out this thing with me. It's been years now and we came through it well. During the rough patch we discovered so many more ways of having sex, being intimate, sharing, connecting sexually. It took time, research, exploration and yes I had to be present, though I did not participate physically that often. After the long circle around to find out swinging was not in our nature we had loosened up from the experience and we spoke/speak so openly afterwards nothing shocked/s either of us. We found what worked for us via remote devices in union with RP/Scenarios. I encourage you to dig into every possible conceivable option, trying them all prior to involving other people. There are so many wonderful new devices out there and fascinating ways to incorporate them into your love life. True, during our rough patch all of is was fantasy on my husbands part but I added in my two cents here and there. We reconnected on a different level but we were connected. Eventually my grieving ended and with the new found experimentation, our sex lives have blossomed way beyond where we could have ever imagined.

[Shawnak2870]

I’m 48 divorced and have had a very high libido since I was 44 that I think correlates to when I was in a car accident and had a head injury. Since then I have overwhelming thoughts and fantasies of sex and masturbate all the time. I have even started watching porn. I’m embarrassed by this and feel shame and guilt but can’t stop.

[jns]

I’m 48 divorced and have had a very high libido since I was 44 that I think correlates to when I was in a car accident and had a head injury. Since then I have overwhelming thoughts and fantasies of sex and masturbate all the time. I have even started watching porn. I’m embarrassed by this and feel shame and guilt but can’t stop.

Welcome to WH Interactive Forums. No need for the shame and guilt. Masturbation is natural and normal. Different people do it to differing amounts. The only thing is that it is best to be discreet. Are you dating? Another post you made said you are divorced. Some divorced people get back into dating right away and others take a while with some never going back to dating.