[a_dub]

Wow, A_dub, that was horrible. Your response to Bug_lady's feelings was incredible insensitive ... it's okay for men to harass her because we can't always get what we want? Maybe if she compromised her health by gaining 100 lbs, she'd avoid harassment?

We don't allow that kind of rudeness, that kind of belittling of the feelings of others on this forum. Considering the help you've had from other members in your confusion about respecting women and what to expect from sex, I thought you'd know better. I think Bug_Lady and all the rest of us deserve an apology.

I apologize. That was rude.

However, I didn't mean it was OK for men to harass her. I do however think that its natural for men to pay attention to women. More so than women paying attention to men. Its the way of the world. I don't think women, especially attractive ones should get too worked up over men complimenting her on her appearance so long as its not something lewd or over the top. She still has every right to be offended. But you have to understand that the more sensitive you are, the more likely it is for you to get offended.

Personally, I would love it if women were hitting on me 24/7. Even if they were women I had no interest in. I'd just ignore and move on.

But I apologize for the advice of getting fat.

[ItsASecret]

When a man asks a woman out, is actively dating a woman, or married to her he definitely is attracted to her physically on some level. He might not think she's the prettiest woman on earth (is there even such a girl?) but he does find her attractive enough to approach her. Its true that men who are desperate enough will sleep with women they are not attracted to (I've done it, my boys have done it), but that is such a small number of the total instances of relationships/sex acts that it can be easily understood for what it is: desperation.

Yes there is a level of attraction involved however that attraction is not likely the reason he married her, he decided to have a long term relationships or marry her because of that love of her as a person. The men in question are the ones who want to date woman X specifically because of the way she looks, he sees her in a tight dress and thinks "I wish I could date and bang her". Nothing about her personality may be questioned, he may not even care about her personality, his main concern is her appearance and he wants that bombshell look and nothing else matters. Those are the guys who women do not want, the woman wants that man to think she is pretty to think she is special but not have that man say to himself "I am going out with you because you are hot". A woman may be very naturally beautiful but that does not mean she wants a man to ask her out or hope to get married to a man one day specifically because she has a pretty face, she wants that man to want her for her.

Desperate men do not care one way or the other, if their penis can get in her then they will take what they can get. The majority of sex instances especially in young people are exactly that, the guy is horny and being shot down constantly so he takes what he can get to get a quick lay.

I suppose you are asking men to be like your boyfriend who, presumably, was always sexually attracted to you, but also let you know that he was in it for more than just a piece of tail.

lol no I am not asking for men to be like my bf. I am saying as a woman what a woman's opinion of being asked out is about and what we women want in being asked out. A man is who he is and he can take advice from women who state what they would like or he can choose to ignore it thinking he knows what is best.

You still seem to be having a hard time conceptually seeing that a woman wants a man to want her for her, not her body, not because she is a 'hottie', not because she wears skimpy clothes but because she is sweet, and smart, and her personality is wonderful.

[a_dub]

You still seem to be having a hard time conceptually seeing that a woman wants a man to want her for her, not her body, not because she is a 'hottie', not because she wears skimpy clothes but because she is sweet, and smart, and her personality is wonderful.

I understand thats what women want. I also know that a lot of men are able to provide that. What I do have a hard time conceptualizing is how a man can seperate the "wow, she's gorgeous" from "i want to get to know her for her". For example there are girls I would love to get to know...but all of them are also girls I find very attractive. Girls who I don't find attractive, I have zero desire to get to know them. Thats not to say I don't have female friends I don't care about. I do have friends who I care about a lot, but not like that. I know them as friends, and thats all. Does that make me a shallow individual? I really don't know...maybe thats why in 29 years, I've never found a girl to have a relationship with. Its very plausible. Maybe the problem is with the way my brain is wired.

All I know is that I've been in love with maybe 3 girls in my life (2 were unrequitted, don't know about the 3rd) but if they weren't as cute as they were, I'd have cared a lot less. Then again, one might argue, that that was never "love" but rather "lust". Again, very plausible since I really have no clue.

[jns]

a_dub, there are a lot of guys like you who only gravitate to the physically prettiest girls. That leaves a lot of room for the guys who look for reasonable or ordinary attractiveness, but really look for girls with stellar personalities. There are also guys who don't worry very much about the physical features, but go entirely for a stellar personality. When you limit the field you want, you make it less likely that you will get what you want. Your limiting yourself makes it better for the rest of the guys. It is also better for the girls as they don't waste a lot of time going after a guy who just wants the prettiest girls.

[ItsASecret]

For example there are girls I would love to get to know...but all of them are also girls I find very attractive.

Because they are hot or attractive. You need to realize that the woman you may find 100% most interesting on a personality level may not be the drop dead gorgeous hot model you are hoping for. You need to be open to the possibility that any woman can make you happy even if she is not the picture perfect model. You are still stuck in seeing a girl, focusing on what she looks like, and then saying to yourself "I want to get to know her" while right there beside you may be a woman of more common interests and better emotional fit to you. Basing everything on image, and looks, and maybe how big her boobs are (if you are that type of guy not saying you are) does make you more of a shallow guy. Finding a person attractive or cute or pretty is one thing but basing the entire decision to get to know them because of how they look is a different thing. Placing looks above getting to know a girl who may have a better personality though not drop dead gorgeous is shallow, ignoring a girl because her appearance is not up to your "standards" is shallow. There are plenty of girls around you that you likely could have had a relationship with but you may have completely ignored them because they did not look the way your fantasy thinks they should look.

[jns]

BTW, I know I limited the field by considering girls with good to stellar personalities. I knew the risks and took my chances.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

a-dub...

There is so, so, so much more than looks you have to listen to us on that.

I dated a few guys before I met my fiance that I would NEVER look at, no way.

But, their personality and charisma just shone threw and all of a sudden they looked pretty good to me.

Why does that happen? Because I was prepared to see the person and that actually was all I was looking for, that person "inside".. Mind you one was a creep, you know? Just trying to get into as many girls pants thought he had the charisma way down packed but he didn't

[Stillness]

It's like you just wiggle at a man for 2 seconds and they turn into a 12 year old waking up from a wet dream.

Why are you wiggling at them? a_dub may have been a bit harsh, but many men share his sentiment regarding the conflicting signals certain types of women send out. The way they dress and behave is sexual harassment. It may not be called that and may be treated differently, but it makes for a bad environment just like a man making unwelcomed advances. It certainly doesn't engender respect from men or women.

[ItsASecret]

Why are you wiggling at them?

I think she was just referring to the fact that you barely have to do anything and a guy will turn into a drooling teenage horny mess. Wearing a dress is not sexual harassment, smiling or being courteous as many women are when a man is staring at her but she still does not want to be approached is not sexual harassment, happening to have a bounce in her step because she likes the way she looks but again may not want to be approached is not sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is when a guy approaches a girl with sexual advancement and she does not want it to happen, touches her without permission in an attempt to flirt, or general unwelcomed sexual behavior in physical or verbal nature. Having the carpet pulled from infront of you by the woman he thinks he has a chance with because of the way she is dressed is a normal outcomes these days. Men need to realize that if a woman is dolled up there is the good chance she is doing it for herself, not for crude, horndog immature men to chase after her.

[Little]

Women dress up, put on makeup, etc ... for other women (and not just lesbians) more than men, I think. Just because I have a ring on my finger and don't expect to see an adult man at the playground at 10:00am on a Monday, it doesn't mean I go out looking like a slob. I still put on makeup and wear nice clothes. I have no desire to be approached by anyone interested in more than a chat and friendship, but yet I still dress like society expects me to. Because society expects me to, and sometimes I enjoy the protection that societal conforming gives me. Not because I want to get hit on. Not because I am "sexually harassing" anybody, that's ludicrous.