[Stillness]

Women sexually harrass too. Some women dress immodest in the extreme. It's uncomfortable to be around them exposing themselves, but I have to to make a living. I'm only in my office once a week for a few hours and I would probably be stirring up more touble than it's worth, so I don't say anything. I don't think my feelings are "ludicrous" though, and I know I'm not the only person that feels this way. How would you feel if a man exposed himself or if he wore tight spandex so that you could see the outline of his penis and he put it at eye level? Some of the things women complain about I don't really see, but I try not to minimize other people's feelings.

Yes, some men eat it up and some women get off on it, but that doesn't make it appropriate in an office. Women tend to get a pass on this. Yes, you may be smart and capable and I respect you for that, but you look like a prostitute if a fraction of a millimeter lower would be showing areola and you probably had to use tape or something to keep your clothes in that spot. It's not a bar. It's an office. I can't say it in person, but that's how I feel.

I also feel like this: *BOOM* 100 posts!!! (again) *signal confetti*

[Little]

Maybe we're talking about different attire here then? There's a big difference between getting mistaken for a sex worker and "dressing up" to go to work or to go out anywhere non-club/bar. "Nice" clothes fit society's expectations for both modesty and a woman's revealing of certain parts of her body. But there are a lot of folks out there (presumably the ones that are panting after Bug Lady and her wiggling or not-wiggling) who think that appropriately short skirt + top that fits closely to curves and shows a bit of cleavage = man that chick is a [insert sex-shaming slur here]! She must want attention!
Big difference between that and wearing what constitutes bathing suit or less to the office or park. That's the difference between ludicrous and something you ought to take up with HR.

[Stillness]

But there are a lot of folks out there (presumably the ones that are panting after Bug Lady and her wiggling or not-wiggling) who think that appropriately short skirt + top that fits closely to curves and shows a bit of cleavage = man that chick is a [insert sex-shaming slur here]! She must want attention!

Change "a bit of cleavage" to "almost entire breast up to above the areola exposed and pushed up for extra visibility" and I'm one of those folks. She may not want the attention, but she is absolutely going to get it from every single person with at least one good eye. If she doesn't know that, then she's dense. If she does know then she either wants it, or doesn't care how she's viewed. In any of those cases, she's a woman of poor taste. That's how I view her. She may not be a "sex-shaming slur" anymore than the person that wears "sex-shaming slur" written across their shirt is that sex-shaming slur. But that's what her clothes say.

And I don't think those clothes fit societal expectations of modesty. They just get a pass because they're not checked. And some bathing suits cover more than the stuff I see. The problem with a bathing suit would be in type. In the cases I'm discussing, they have the right type of clothes, they just fit so as to draw undue attention to their body - much like a prostitute would do to attract a john. If you're not selling you shouldn't advertise.

I'm happy that these women are in the minority. Most women know how to tastefully compliment their feminine beauty. It's much more attractive to me on every level - professional, masculine, human.

[ItsASecret]

I see your different idea here and yes from that view of the inappropriate office worker for example can be a form of maybe not harassment but certainly being too "much". And I have definitely seen women dress up in the workplace in things that could pass for bar or club attire and there is no way they did not look in the mirror prior to showing up at work in that shirt that barely covers their boobs or they "forgot" that they were wearing a double padded push up bra and extra tight fitting low cut blouse...I see that sort of attire as completely deliberate attention seeking. That I agree with is absolutely absurd if she is dressing like that, bending over, and doing the "oh I am just a such silly head for dropping my pen" type attitude....I see right through that attitude. Those women are a problem no doubt, the ones in appropriate office skirts and a blouse are not an issue unless you see them purposefully unbuttoning their shirt or bending over in front of the men. And I do agree that the extreme versions of inappropriate attire are the minority as you will see the majority of women wearing nice feminine fitting office attire for example with no reason to think they are purposefully showing anything but a professional attitude. But there are certainly the women out there that do go too far, that do deliberately wear low cut shirts for attention and will be labelled as inappropriate for wearing that inappropriate clothing in the inappropriate setting.

[rcoreyus]

It can be complicated. Lots of people flirt a bit - even at the office. Where the line is depends on the person you are flirting with. Its a rather dangerous game, but one that some people enjoy. That said, some behaviors and clothing are clearly beyond what is reasonable at work.

[Hugo-B]

I think she was just referring to the fact that you barely have to do anything and a guy will turn into a drooling teenage horny mess. Wearing a dress is not sexual harassment, smiling or being courteous as many women are when a man is staring at her but she still does not want to be approached is not sexual harassment, happening to have a bounce in her step because she likes the way she looks but again may not want to be approached is not sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is when a guy approaches a girl with sexual advancement and she does not want it to happen, touches her without permission in an attempt to flirt, or general unwelcomed sexual behavior in physical or verbal nature. Having the carpet pulled from infront of you by the woman he thinks he has a chance with because of the way she is dressed is a normal outcomes these days. Men need to realize that if a woman is dolled up there is the good chance she is doing it for herself, not for crude, horndog immature men to chase after her.

Men who treat women with this 'piece of meat' approach make it more difficult for the men who at least want to express their interest in a woman in a gentlemanly manner. Women who go out to bars and clubs wearing dressed provocatively know they can expect a lot of attention, some be be welcome, some not so welcome and some unwelcome. Obviously they have the right to not be 'harassed' (I'd define that for the purpose of this thread as 'rude and threatening behavior'. I have mixed feelings about approaching girls in bars ad clubs, firstly communication is more difficult because of the loud music, this obviously makes talking harder, and communication by body language more critical. I find in general a bar or club isn't an ideal place to 'chat girls up' primarily because, as one of the ladies mentioned women are much more weary of a mans intentions in such an environment. Also in bars and nightclubs, due to the high volume of attention women receive, (and purport to not like) one other factor is that by the time it gets late in the evening a woman's ego is likely to be way out of control and she'll be getting off from the ego boost of rejecting men left right and centre.

One thing I've learned over the last few years is to (try and ) learn to read the very subtle signals women send out to men when they are interested, women are surprisingly proactive when it comes to men they are interested in. If you look at the situation in a positive light the men who act like idiots towards women are paving the way for the men who behave like gentlemen AND muster up the courage to ask girls out. I think as a man one of the most important traits to develop is to be able to take rejection on the chin and not let it bother you. I believe women have more respect for men who ask them out and take rejection gracefully than they do for men who can't find the courage (although many sympathize with them I don't think women find it attractive).

If I'm out I'll approach a girl if her mannerism's and body language is 'inviting', I usually make small talk at the bar when I'm waiting to be served with whoever is next to me. When I'm talking to a girl, (I've approached or been introduced to or whatever) if after five minutes or so her body language doesn't tell me she's interested in talking to me and carrying on the conversation I'll politely excuse myself and let her get on with whatever she's doing.