[Little]

I think Scotty was getting at this, why not add women you find attractive to your "acquaintance circle" before approaching her? The idea of trying to forge a long-term connection on the basis of physical appearance (and body language cues) is downright terrifying to me. On the plus side, you don't even need dating websites to verify relationship status if you're trying to make friends with a girl - simply check out her social networking profile.
Obviously, these are not quick fixes to the problems listed above, especially the burden of the approach being on the man. But I imagine that basing a relationship on a previous friendship would more often result in a healthy pairing, rather than the cold approach.

[ItsASecret]

Much rather have a friendship with a guy before anything emotional started. That way she can see how a guy is on a personal level. If a guy is arrogant well she will quickly find out through the friendship meetings, if he is a nice guy she will see that in the way he speaks and how he behaves. Just jumping right in and hoping the attractive girl says yes to being asked out is going to result in a lot of rejections. Feelings can develop for someone you may never have thought you would develop them for which makes the friendship approach so much more inviting.

[Maximus]

Much rather have a friendship with a guy before anything emotional started. That way she can see how a guy is on a personal level. If a guy is arrogant well she will quickly find out through the friendship meetings, if he is a nice guy she will see that in the way he speaks and how he behaves. Just jumping right in and hoping the attractive girl says yes to being asked out is going to result in a lot of rejections. Feelings can develop for someone you may never have thought you would develop them for which makes the friendship approach so much more inviting.

I can understand this but for me, at least, things have always been hit or miss, no rounds of observation through "friendship".
Plus there is the non-negligible risk that you end up the friend who stays the friend, one that she calls when she is sad, etc...the best friend purgatory so to speak.
I do like the idea of a man being asked out for once. Refreshing.

[a_dub]

Do not focus on looks guys, a girl wants you to be interested in her and not her body or how she would look naked.

Why is it that most (if not all) attractive women dress as if they want to be noticed by men (or lesbians)? I've rarely seen a hottie wearing a burqa or dressed like a nun. Usually its skin tight tops with 60% of the surface area of the the boobs they want us NOT to look at being exposed. You don't see them wearing sweatpants that are 2 sizes larger than they need. Its a pair PINK shorts which end some 10 inches above the knees and right below the butt cheek crease. Am I missing something here
?

[ItsASecret]

Why is it that most (if not all) attractive women dress as if they want to be noticed by men (or lesbians)? I've rarely seen a hottie wearing a burqa or dressed like a nun. Usually its skin tight tops with 60% of the surface area of the the boobs they want us NOT to look at being exposed. You don't see them wearing sweatpants that are 2 sizes larger than they need. Its a pair PINK shorts which end some 10 inches above the knees and right below the butt cheek crease. Am I missing something here?

Yes you are missing the point. When you focus on a stripper or playboy model look you are going to get skimpy, sleezy clothing, and lack of modesty in appearance. The point is that in a relationship sense or a potential date sense we want men to want us for who we are not for what we look like. We want a man to say "hey want to go out on a date" because he thinks we are interesting and he wants to get to know us more not because our boobs are big or he has hopes to see that 'fine body' naked. Too many men do exactly what you did just now "rarely seen a hottie"...focusing on her appearance. How do you know she is not as dumb as a rock?...you paid attention because of her appearance. When a woman is wearing skimpy clothes she wants that visual attention from men that is why she is wearing them, when a woman wants to have a sit down romantic night with a man on a date or find her potential future husband she wants that man to want her to love her for her personality and everything about her and not automatically think "**** she is fine what a hottie I want those big **** oh my god" or automatically jump to appearance as the reason he asks her out.

[Bug_Lady]

What guys don't get is that it makes US feel good! We want to look good for ourselves! Every time a girl puts on eyeliner that doesn't mean "man I hope a guy whistles at me today". If they are dressing like that specifically to get men then they are in for a rude awakening when their metabolism shuts down and the leather hand bag look sets in...

I would like to dress up sometimes but I work in a male-dominated field and am sick of the comments. I want to like looking at myself but dislike being hit on every **** day. It's like you just wiggle at a man for 2 seconds and they turn into a 12 year old waking up from a wet dream.

[Bug_Lady]

Also...the friend zone thing...once a guy is in the friend zone there is no getting him out. Just me. I have to go into talking to a guy looking for something for there to ever be something. Tried it before and it always feels like I'm kissing my brother or something

[a_dub]

Yes you are missing the point. When you focus on a stripper or playboy model look you are going to get skimpy, sleezy clothing, and lack of modesty in appearance. The point is that in a relationship sense or a potential date sense we want men to want us for who we are not for what we look like. We want a man to say "hey want to go out on a date" because he thinks we are interesting and he wants to get to know us more not because our boobs are big or he has hopes to see that 'fine body' naked. Too many men do exactly what you did just now "rarely seen a hottie"...focusing on her appearance. How do you know she is not as dumb as a rock?...you paid attention because of her appearance. When a woman is wearing skimpy clothes she wants that visual attention from men that is why she is wearing them, when a woman wants to have a sit down romantic night with a man on a date or find her potential future husband she wants that man to want her to love her for her personality and everything about her and not automatically think "**** she is fine what a hottie I want those big **** oh my god" or automatically jump to appearance as the reason he asks her out.

But men are inherently visual beings. Women may or may not be...I don't know. But men most assuredly are. Its why almost all of us watch porn, and even more of us masturbate to mental images of women we'd like to sleep with (the so called "spank bank"). When a man asks a woman out, is actively dating a woman, or married to her he definitely is attracted to her physically on some level. He might not think she's the prettiest woman on earth (is there even such a girl?) but he does find her attractive enough to approach her. Its true that men who are desperate enough will sleep with women they are not attracted to (I've done it, my boys have done it), but that is such a small number of the total instances of relationships/sex acts that it can be easily understood for what it is: desperation.

Perhaps you are suggesting that a balance of some sort be achieved. I suppose you are asking men to be like your boyfriend who, presumably, was always sexually attracted to you, but also let you know that he was in it for more than just a piece of tail.

[a_dub]

I would like to dress up sometimes but I work in a male-dominated field and am sick of the comments. I want to like looking at myself but dislike being hit on every **** day. It's like you just wiggle at a man for 2 seconds and they turn into a 12 year old waking up from a wet dream.

Easy solution...just gain 100 lbs and you should be set.

I want a 8-inch penis, a Bentley, a house in the hills, $10 million in a duffle bag, and be able to get gorgeous woman without having to risk rejection by asking them out.

I guess neither one of us is going to get what we want in life, huh?

[Little]

Wow, A_dub, that was horrible. Your response to Bug_lady's feelings was incredible insensitive ... it's okay for men to harass her because we can't always get what we want? Maybe if she compromised her health by gaining 100 lbs, she'd avoid harassment?

We don't allow that kind of rudeness, that kind of belittling of the feelings of others on this forum. Considering the help you've had from other members in your confusion about respecting women and what to expect from sex, I thought you'd know better. I think Bug_Lady and all the rest of us deserve an apology.