[ThexMrs]

how long have you gone without having an intimate relationship or being intimate with someone?

By intimate do you mean sexual? If so, I'll break it down for you.

April 4th 2008 - I lost my virginity. I had sex again with this man April 6th, 2008.

May 23rd or 27th, 2008 - I had sex with a guy named Carl.

November 15th thru 17th, 2008 - I had sex with Marty.

April or so 2009 - I had sex with Jared the first and second time. The third was June 10th, 2009.

June 11th, 2009 - I had sex with Ryan.

So, that is the timeline.

I've always had a boyfriend though pretty much. When I was 13, my boyfriend was 18. Then at 15, my boyfriend was 19 and I was with him for about 8 months. Then I got with my best friend for a few months. Then I dated Justin, James, Jon, Tevin, Perry, Marcus, Anthony, and so on up until this point.

You kind of welcome the hurt and the turmoil (on a sub conscious level of course) because in that pain, in that anger and in that outrage, there is... something.

I agree 100%. My life has been chaotic from the time I was an infant. The abuse growing up in my family. (Physical and Mental) though I was never hit by my father. I watched him beat my brothers and my mother. I heard the things he said. I saw the things he did like cutting up every piece of clothing my mother had and breaking the heels on her shoes. Throwing her jewlery out of the window and into the yard. I watched my mom threaten to kill herself with a knife to her wrist when I was 7. When I was 5 I was molested by a girl who was a family friend. The police were at our house almost every single day of the week. They knew me personally and could spot me out anywhere. It was horrible. I could go on and on and on with all of the things I have been through but I won't. Because of seeing all of this I feel that I need chaos in my life to feel normal. That's all I know.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Lindsay,

Watching all of that is tough, I know there are lots of other though that have been through the same.

Your Father never hit you, but did your brothers and your Mother, do you know why that is? You held him high in a post once, sitting watching movies with him, loved him, did he show you favortism?

Your "sex" life only two days thereabout with each person, tell me more about Marty? That was 12 months wasn't it, long distance but you only had sex with him for two days?

You haven't had a sex life beautiful, you've given sex to men not many either from that count... But, your normal in that department you only started being active a year ago, you've only had sex a handful of times... It will be different when it's more and with (1) person only exclusively so you then feel love as well, intimacy.

I don't think you've had the chance to experience that yet and that's why your confused over men i think.

What about Jarred, is he still in the picture? You say first was April, next was June, were you doing things together, dates and things over that period of time?

Sorry for the million questions haha, but if you get something out of a reply then they may be worth asking.

CW

[WildChild]

I understand where you are coming from with a great deal of this. There are differences but growing up in an abusive household does affect you. It affects you expectations, your responses, fears - so many things. Often this is in ways you don't even realize. I was well into adulthood before I recognized that I had a sort of odd thing about new furniture. Who resists new furniture? Then I realized that in my childhood world new furniture was something you got because the old furniture had been smashed to bits in a fit of rage - no it didn't happen often, might have been only once, but I had that association.

I also had a compulsive habit, if I felt someone around me was upset or likely to became upset, I would start cleaning and fixing things up. One day I realized it was a carry over from my youthful efforts to please, in order to head off the storm that was brewing. I was still doing it as a middle aged adult, then I stopped and kind of froze, couldn't get much of anything done for a long time.

My observation has been that growing up with anger and violence in the home lead to self esteem problems. There is a childish sense that if "I" were; better, nicer, neater, smarter, funnier, prettier, anything-er, things would be better. Kids tend to be self focused and therefore blame themselves. They are the center and so they must be the problem. I grew up with one parent telling me I was selfish, mean, not nice and someone no one would like (just like their sister whom they hated had been) and then the same parent would say, " I love you", how confusing is that? The other parent was given to cyclic fits of rage, I never knew going to sleep if I would sleep all night or get yanked out of bed to be yelled at and hit- half asleep, not knowing what is going on. I won't go into my teen years. I did finally put a stop to it. But the residual stays with you a long time, sometimes in odd ways.

Lindsey you've got the same type of conflict, loving and fearing, seeing others being hurt by someone who should have been their protector and caregiver. Having a parent you loved (and feared) leave your life permanently, irrevocably, by choice - actually by their own violence. I would guess that your mother was very wounded by all she had been through and seen her children through - who knows what she grew up with that she tollerated that treatment. She was not able to adequately protect herself or her children. Yet, somehow you grew up knowing it all wasn't right. wasn't how it should be. The problem that those who grow up in this type of environment face is that while knowing what they dealt with wasn't right, wasn't best (actually some don't know that- poor souls) They, we, don't really know what is "right", how it really should be. We see happy couples but something inside us doubts that it is real because we know what goes on behind closed doors.

Your recognition that you seek chaos as your comfort zone is good. Naming something is the first step to changing it. If you look, you will find way to turn that to advantage but first you have to know that it isn't a good thing to have in a relationship. Can you start to redirect it to building a stable life that stays spicy? Get that book and read it, I promise you it will hit chords and hopefully open some new understandings.

[ThexMrs]

CW: Honestly, I don't know why he never hit me. I've felt such a huge guilt over that for all of my life. I wish that he would have beaten me, it's only fair. My brothers are 5 and 7 years older than I am so maybe that is why they were beaten and not me. I was too little perhaps? I do love my father and I believe that he was just sick. He had a mental disorder, he was an alcoholic, before I was born he was into cocaine, his mother and his brother molested him growing up. He just had a lot of problems but despite the abuse, my father was a great person. He always provided extremely well for us. He took my brothers and all of their friends camping all of the time. He played basketball with them. Everyone loved my father. He was a good man.

It was almost 12 months, yes. We've known each other over a year but it was a couple of months into our friendship before we started dating. I had never planned on meeting Marty. He was just someone I talked to for fun. He had brought up meeting but everytime he did I blew it off. He told me he fell in love with me early, early on before we became an item. I thought it was sweet but didn't think anything of it. Then I fell in love with him. I kept putting off meeting for months. Finally, after 6 months I gave in. I met him and we were together for 3 days. When we made these plans I said that we should keep it short just in case it wasn't working out in person. It went amazingly. When he got back to town it was Holiday season and all of his family came around. They didn't end up leaving until mid January. We started to make plans for seeing each other again but financially, with this economy, they were tight. After that our relationship started falling apart. I mean, what do you expect? We hadn't seen each other in months. It was too hard. You know? First we were supposd to see each other in Jan - Feb and it didn't happen. Then he ruined Valentine's Day. Then it was March and then it was never. We've talked about him coming out here again as friends and we want to do that but with Jared in the picture, that sounds like a bad idea.

See... This is a perfect example of why I have a hard time believing that Jared loves me or actually wants the relationship we are in. We have NEVER once gone on a date. Not once. He always comes over to my place, we watch a movie or talk a little but the end result is always sexual. Not exactly sex but other things. We've never gone to the movies, to dinner, to the park, to a concert, to anything. I've never been to his place. For all I know, he could have a family there though that would be an extreme case and I don't believe it at all... I'm just saying.

WC: I can relate to a lot of what you have said. When people get upset or yell or anything I go into shutdown mode and just clean. I can't handle it. The yelling makes me shake, anger makes me shake. When I hear loud noises I always jump and start to panic. I can't handle the wash machine going at the same time as the dryer and dishwasher. There are so many things that affect me now because of my childhood but I do recognize them.

My mother has told me on numerous occasions that I should go kill myself or go cut myself. She's told me that I am lucky that she didn't throw me in the trash when I was born. She told me that she can't love me. Things like that and all I can think is, aren't you supposed to love me? You're my mother. I don't understand.

When it comes to my mother and why she let my father beat her kids and herself, there is only one answer: Money. My dad was a very, very good financial provider and he gave my mother all of the comforts she wanted in life. She always had diamond rings, sapphires, name brand clothes, etc. When I was little my mother bought me a beautiful gold ring with a heart on it. I was a little child, what did I need with that? My mother asked her parents for money to leave my father (she never planned to) and when she got it, she went shopping with the money. One of my biggest struggles with her is how she could let her children be beat over money. That she was that selfish that she wouldn't protect her kids. It disgusts me.

[caterpillar79]

I thought I was odd when I react that way - I was wrong. Like you WildChild and Lindsay, I start cleaning, but most of the time, especially when I was yelled at or just hear yelling/anger, my reflex is to go to a corner and curl myself shaking in fear. I still do as an adult. I don't know for sure if this would stop for good. I haven't had an experience to make me fear my SO. He knows my history.

Believe me, this forum is helping me enormously. Having people like you, guys, provide me the support that I can't find here around me (physically) - from fellow women.

Linds, have you tried asking Jared to do something outdoors together? Just for plain enjoyment of each others' company...If you did, how did he react or how did it go? Outdoors, you cannot be too sexual (too PDA), and you enjoy more modest amount of intimacy (I believe)...what do you think?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

We don't have to like our parents, but we also well don't have to turn out like them, sometimes i think it's a test of ourselves, that we become the opposite to what we knew and that sets the family correctly down the right path from there on, only it's a shame to go through such pain however, it surely makes us a stronger person.

Jared, can not use the L word, without making you both a proper item, a proper relationship.

A relationship, is based on togetherness, and that includes dating, it is not all about "mating"... that doesn't constitute a relationship.

With Jared I would be saying, so if you love me, it's time we started dating and getting to know each other, outside the house, weekly, regularily and see what each other likes and dislikes such as movies, sports, food.

How can you know if your compatible if you only sit at home each time he visits?

How can you laugh at something together if you never get to watch it?

Stand firm on this, you will establish exactly what he feels by doing so, and take it from there.

CW

[ThexMrs]

Yes, I asked him to go out with a group of us. My brother who lives a couple of hours away was in town and we were all having a little party. He said that he would but then work got in the way.

One day Jared and I got into an argument. I can't remember what about but I responded with, "Since it seems like we're going to fight then why don't you tell me why we never go anywhere or do anything?" I didn't get a response.

I've invited him to have dinner with my family. He says he will and then it never happens. I asked him if he wanted to meet my family and he said that he would. That doesn't sound like a yes to me. It sounds like he's trying to appease me. He didn't say he wanted to, he just said he would. At one point he said, as long as your brother knows that I'm having sex with his little sister (which is obvious) and he won't beat me up then yeah, I'll come hang out. Again, never happened. He's been here but my brother wasn't home.

Speaking of Jared... Something happened today that bugged me and I want to know if I am overreacting. I took a really sexy, dirty photo of myself today and sent it to his phone while he was at work. Everything was fine until the conversation went a little further.

This is our text conversation:

Jared: Tease! I love you.

Me: I am not a tease.

Jared: Yes, you are. I'm here. You're there. I can't touch you. That's a tease.

Me: Lol... Who said you could touch anyways?

Jared: Ooooh.

Me: Yeah, that's right!

Jared: Ouch.

Me: Haha... Oh gosh... You'll be fine. Goof.

Jared: Fine! I'll find someone that WILL let me touch them then.

Me: Wow... You do that then.

Jared: I was kidding.

Me: It's not funny. Go find someone else.

Jared: Well I am sorry and did not mean it.

Me: Whatever.

Jared: Whatever.

Jared: I'm heading to my 6pm appointment. I love you.

I didn't respond any further. It just really bothered me that he would say that. 1) It's new. 2) It's not funny. 3) It makes me feel insecure because maybe he is thinking like that.

Anyways... I have to go cook dinner.

[caterpillar79]

Guys' reflex: pull your pig tails if he likes you. I see it as he's just testing your response to it, not being cautious for the tiem being though. It usually happens during playful exchanges between lovers. I can't blame you if you see through the conversation differently, due to a previous experience.

Seems to me like he's still in the process of "getting ready" for that acquaintance with your family. What I understand about men is that, when they are serious with the girl they're with, they want to present themselves worthy of her love and her family's acceptance. If he's not ready yet, let time do its course.

For the time being, get to know him more, without being too physical. When he visits you at home, and you can "drag" him with you, drive to a nearby park, take a walk or (have this ready if you can) grill...whatever outdoors. Because if you do take the time to just be "friends" - laugh together, be funny & look crazy, it brings out something from each of you that you will not be able to see when you are always in the comfort of the home, cuddling in the couch.

You are creative...you can "set it up". Btw, what's cooking? Hmmmm.....

[ThexMrs]

I'm having spaghetti.


Okay so Jared just text me a little bit ago, again. This is how it went:

Jared: I'm sorry for the bad joke. I didn't mean it.

Me: Okay Jared.

Jared: Please.

Me: Please what?

Jared: Are you done with me?

Me: No, don't be silly. It just wasn't funny and sometimes I wonder...

Jared: Wonder what?

Me: I wonder if you're with someone else.

Jared: Um, why?

Me: Because six out of seven days a week I don't see you. We really don't talk much especially at night. I just wonder who or what you are doing in your free time. I know you say you love me but those can be just words. Where's the proof? And we never do anything or go anywhere. It's just weird.

Jared: So you don't trust me? Thanks.

Me: I never said I didn't trust you. I just don't want to get hurt anymore.

Jared: Same thing. When you have those kinds of thoughts it means, distrust.

Jared: I work a lot. Get exhausted and have barely a signal at the house, not to mention I am typically asleep almost as soon as I get home.

Me: I try to keep myself in check and say it's just work but I feel after so many times that I am making excuses for you. I guess I just need reassurance every now and then. Please don't be upset.

AND THAT WAS IT... He's not talking to me now.

[caterpillar79]

Use your gutt

That sounds yummy. I'm hungry now.

Anyways, let's get down to business. What does your gutt tell you, sweetie? I would love to give Jared the benefit of the doubt. In most cases, women's intuition don't fail, right?

Let me share you my story before I met Pumpkin....I was with this guy, 13 years older than I am. He said he's divorced and only had 2 kids (both boys). To cut the long story a bit shorter, we became an item. We worked in the same school, but I learned that he'd been denying US as a couple. It's not an issue in the workplace because we're not being inappropriate. What's worse is that he never invited me to his place, we never went out close to his area, never introduced me to his family and friends...heck, I was a GF in the dark! He carpooled me that time, since I am a newcomer to the country, don't have a driver's license, don't have a car.

One morning, my phone rang, and it was him calling. So I answered, and much to my surprise, it was a lady. She said it was his wife! I confronted him that day, and he admitted it was his "wife", but he's not married to her, and that they are just living in the same roof, but not couples any more. I believed him, I know, I was blinded. Then, came the time this woman took-off, and we became closer and intimate, and I was having issues, and he insisted of me moving - in to his house, which I did. My gutt was telling me otherwise, even before, but I've always dismissed it's voice. As days went by while living with him, I noticed some photos of little girls, asked about them and he kept telling me those are his nieces. Again, I believed. My voice of reason kept shouting inside, I ignored. Later, I found out they were his kids with that lady. I left and shut him off my life for good. They got back together, the woman and kids, and he still texts, calls, emails me. Telling me, he was a fool. (Which I agree...lol).

Now, back to Jared. I am inclined to say that if a guy really cares about you, he is going to share his life to you. Bring you to his world and would also be glad to enter your world. It is the getting to know you, and see if we fit in each other's lives... Right now, I don't seem to understand Jared. You don't distrust him. You actually want to ward off that "monster" out of your system, and you were seeking his support and reassurance. He's on the defensive mode, and looks like he's not ready to share himself with you yet.

How old is he - 26/28, I didn't catch it from the previous/other posts? Is he done with school? Do you know where he works, his place, friends? Do you have common acquaintances? Sorry for these numerous queries, but I am aiming to establish a baseline.