[amy40]

Macon,
Does you wife ever participate or go with you when you care for your granddaughter? 1 1/2 that is a fun age.
Can't imagine you two not going out and doing fun things with a grandchild and not having a great bonding experience.

You also mention being out on a walk with your wife. Know that she can't run anymore but if you both can get out more and walk, that might help her some physically.

[Stillness]

I'm a writer

Uh oh. The standards just jumped up a bit around here. Now we all have to be at the top of our games.

Yours is the first account I've read from a man in which his woman recovers any sexual interest. From all I've read before, this is a one-way road

From what I've read, it's the other way around. Their reproductive vicissitudes allow for some weird libidinous phenomena. It's us that normally see a decline past 40 with no hope of recovery. If you read enough, you'll see quite a few men and women that report that about themselves and their spouses. There's just never an instance where a woman talks about her man or a man talks about himself seeing late peaks. Whereas it's common for them.

If you read around enough, you'll see a few women lamenting ignoring their husbands when they were younger because the shoe is on the other foot now and they can't rightly be angry. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. That's why part of me feels so much for women who have the high drive, because there is pretty much no hope for their mate to have a natural physical increase, unless there's some medical issue.

For you and I, there's hope. And for anyone whose mate is willing to love unselfishly, they can make it work, even with a disparity in sex drive. Because really, what in a relationship isn't asymmetric and variable? Thus the vows - better, worse, sickness, health, etc.

[macon]

Amy,
Thank you for writing. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes total sense. My wife does come with sometimes and my son and his wife visit us occasionally. My wife clearly wants my granddaughter to feel close to her, and that's starting to happen. I love seeing them together. But it's as if there were glass between us. We laugh and enjoy the time together with her, but my wife never touches me at these times and no warmth between us ever results. As I think about her touching in general, she touches her children, too. Just not me.

The more I hear from people the weirder her distance sounds to me. It's like my wife is my sister and anything more than polite gestures would be unseemly. Could it be that she's actually tired of me but doesn't have the energy for a divorce right now? I'm sorry, I'm in like a frenzy these past couple days. So much information coming in, things I didn't know or understand. It's just so weird to live with a woman, love her company, feel she loves yours, have fun together, but for intimacy to be a ghost.

Would a woman who's ashamed of her weight really become so body-less as to show almost no affection to the man she loves?

[macon]

Stillness,
That's really good to hear. All my previous reading has been in men's forums; the level of discourse there isn't what I've found here, so I'm not surprised to hear the reporting is inaccurate.

And I do understand about asymmetry; I'm just, well, really mad.

Writing: not to worry. It's a relationships forum. Writing workshop is down the hall

Thanks for your attention and helpful observations. M

[Ashlee T.]

Would a woman who's ashamed of her weight really become so body-less as to show almost no affection to the man she loves? Yep. Self-confidence and just as equal if not more powerful, self-loathing can and does affect a persons desire.

Lots of people have great experiences with the depo shot. But no one will ever convince me that forcing your body to be so out of whack that it doesn't have a period any longer is normal and doesn't come with it's own list of side effects. The depo shot has also been known to cause weight gain, fatigue, hair loss, loss of libido, emotional roller coasters, etc.
Declining a vasectomy because you want to have more children, when you know you can't (or shouldn't) have more children with her at her age, is sort of a slap in the face to a woman who is having to take artificial hormones every day to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Especially when those hormones have such life altering side effects. Isn't it ironic that the very thing we have to take to prevent the pregnancy, makes us not want to have sex to begin with?

Lack of libido can also cause a loss of affection. Once sex becomes an issue, then every touch and sign of affection is often taken as a potential segway into sex. I remember when I had no sex drive, I began withholding other types of physical affection too because every time I touched him (even a hug), he'd get turned on and then initiate sex. I didn't want to have sex, so I stopped that affection unless we were out in public somewhere where he couldn't initiate sex. Sounds horrible doesn't it? Well, it was. Thanks birth control!

[atskitty2]

I don't know your wife, but I can identify with having an autoimmune disorder. I was diagnosed nearly 2 yrs ago now, and for the first year maybe, I was consumed by it. I have not had a concrete diagnosis yet, Lupus and sjogrens syndrome are top differential diagnoses.

You said that she does a lot of research on it, and has looked into everything. Could it be that she also, is so overwhelmed by it and it's more on her mind than even she realizes? How often does she bring it up? How does she refer to herself and her body and the disease? How much time per week is spent researching and managing the symptoms? Has she been evaluated for depression?

Also, don't underestimate the power of chronic pain. Ongoing, even low grade pain can be very taxing on our bodies and mentally. I can speak to this because I know very well how pain can fool our minds. If she's using heat daily, she's in pain. And Pain, even if we're used to it, can be draining on our energy and resources for doing more each day. Her body is not OK. Has her doctor discussed a exercise and weight loss program? Is she actively moving toward better health? Added weight cannot be good for that spine, increasing her pain.

I think there's a lot going on with your wife honestly. More than she probably even realizes. She is not a healthy woman. Add to this the hormones that her body is naturally shifting, then the injected hormones her body is forced to process. I'm not her doctor, but in my opinion she needs to do a factory reset, so to speak. As a woman who's been through this hormonal and health crisis, that's where she needs to start.

Nothing goes well when our health and mind are out of whack. Nothing.

[macon]

I read back through the affectionate emails my wife and I used to send one another. Three years ago, at least, her emails had already faded from surprise messages of "love you so much and can't wait to be with you again" to responses only that say "so grateful for your love, so important to me, sorry I'm don't give much back." These taper to "grateful for your love, sorry," to "grateful," then to the dreaded "love you too."

In this forum, I read over and over in your responses that, by what I write, she's badly stressed and probably unable to respond. That her physical pain probably eclipses her feelings. That her shame at her weight probably eclipses her feelings. That she may be starting menopause. That the hormonal contraception she takes may depress her libido and mess her up in general. (Concerning my resistance to getting a vasectomy when she asked, I said to her only that I didn't want to; I kept my selfish reasons to myself. When I eventually agreed to do it, I said this to her without comment. When she decided to keep getting shots, it came out of the blue to me.) I think most of what you all observe is true. I feel great sympathy for her and, for the aspects of her situation I can relate to in some way, I feel empathy and sadness.

Within a year after we met, the sparkle I once had from my bipolar mania was gone and my bipolar moods tended ever downward. Within a couple years, I was depressed out of my mind. I could barely get up in the morning. She stuck by me; she never pressed me about my mood or behavior. She told me later this was very hard time for her. By a little over a year later, meds had brought me up to a somewhat normal level, and I've gotten less irritable, more stable, and more cheerful year by year since. But as I've improved, her affection toward me and tolerance of my flaws have waned year by year. The absence I feel has been significantly longer than the one she endured.

When we began together, we agreed not to marry. Both of us had leaned on marriage to hold failing relationships together. We both wanted the absence of a contract to spur us to give more because the other could leave any time. When I was depressed, we got married in secret to put me on her employer's health insurance. We agreed this was a legal necessity neither of us wanted. She made clear she felt nothing had changed in our commitment each to ourselves to give as though we had no commitment to each other. I bring this up as background to the structure of our relationship, what loyalty each of us feels that _the other_ owes. It has no bearing on my own feelings of responsibility and loyalty.

I've fallen behind too. Partly in response to the absence I feel from her, partly out of my own laziness. My reinvestment in our relationship has been spotty, largely because of her lack of response.

Once or twice in the last year or so, she asked vaguely whether I was losing interest. I said I wasn't; that was true. She told me a couple weeks ago she feels forced to choose between me and her children, and she chooses her children because she has to. She's making the right decision: When I was in that situation with my last wife, I chose her, and I regret that. Had I that choice now, I'd choose as my wife is choosing. But she knows where this can go. She cheated on her first husband; she knows what it feels like to start to shake loose when a relationship isn't working. (She told me the day we met that she'd had had an affair; it didn't bother me then and doesn't now. It certainly wouldn't justify my doing the same.) I suspect she's not giving at least partly because she fears I'm leaving.

I'm going to open up to her about my feelings. (Thank you in particular to atskitty for guidance in how to do that.) Maybe this will lead somewhere. My instinct is it won't; she's not a slacker: she wouldn't be holding back if she didn't feel she had to; plus, she knows the deal between us. But I really want this to work; leaving would be a death to me. It would take me a long time to recover, which I need to keep in mind.

But what if it doesn't work out; say she says she can't give more or says she will and doesn't: If you were in my place, facing a future with a partner you once shared mad love with now treating you like a good friend, not more, in a house where one step-child hates you and both disregard you, with rare (and growing rarer), bumbling, unsatisfying sex followed by acting as if nothing had happened, would you stay? If you would, I'd really, really love to know why, and how.

You all have given me a tremendous amount. I know far more than I did about our situation and how I feel about it. If no one wants to respond, I understand. I've asked a lot, you've given a lot, and I know I'm intense, demanding, and sometimes abrasive. I owe this forum, though, and will look for ways to give back.

Thank you very, very much.

Macon

[atskitty2]

You ask whether we'd stay, in the situation you shared. For now, yes, I would. because I don't think every avenue of solution has been traveled. I don't necessarily think this has come to a head yet, and it needs to. There needs to be a stirring up, a wtf moment for her.

My marriage failed after I had gone to counseling alone, seeking skills to reach him, It was a long process of fighting for my marriage and giving up, only to eventually realize that he likely has a mental illness that I cannot win over...it was hell, and it has taken me years to understand the extent of the trauma, and recover. I can say I left no stone unturned.
idk that I will ever be happy in a relationship again.


I think you can thank us, by sticking around macon lol
Stay and keep us posted and maybe help the next one facing trials, based on your experience and what you learn. You still have a long road ahead my dear. Stick around for our support as you move forward.

[Stillness]

I'm just, well, really mad.

Anger is an underrated emotion.

I used mine to harden myself and fight. No one comes between us - not friends, not work, not family, not ourselves. If I have bitterness, pride, ego, laziness, fear or any kind of selfishness getting in between us, I fight myself to get rid of it.

We don't have children, but we wouldn't let any come between us if we did. Children grow up and leave. Husband and wife stay together.

For us it's just logic. The vows we took are unbreakable by our own will. We had really honest conversations. We discussed feelings, sex, family history, past relationships. We even took it dark and talked about adultery and death - the things that do break a marriage bond. Neither one of us is willing to kill ourselves. We’re not murderers. We’re afraid of the path that sex with other people would take us down. When it was all said and done, we love life and God too much, so we were left with two options: stay together miserably or stay together happily. We decided to work at happiness.

I vote for you to stay. I believe any marriage can work.

[amy40]

Macon see you online and tried to pm you but you don't hve enough posts