[mrwrong]

My wife is upset because I recently admitted to looking at porn online again after having told her about it before and telling her I would stop before. I'm not addicted, I've gone months without it before and have no need for it when I'm satisfied with the sex within the marriage. I'm definitely hiding it from her when I do because I know it makes her upset. However, we haven't had sex in a full two months (avg once every 4-6 weeks before that) despite me communicating clearly that I want to and being available any time. I also try to be intimate, give her massages, compliment, help around the house, etc.. I work at home mostly, often on weekends, and occasionally in an office totaling well over 40hrs/week, she is a stay-at-home mom and we have two kids (2yr and 7mo). She shows no interest in sex and never puts forth an effort to allow time, she is just entirely consumed with the kids. Somehow she has time for landscaping, facebook, toy shopping, craigslist browsing, etc., but not for her husband. So who is cheating on who? I masturbate when she's not around and she is aware of it and though she seems to think I'm a perv says she doesn't have anything against it. Porn on the other hand to her is equivalent to a full blown affair. I find this ridiculous, entirely unfounded, and insulting. How can she make no effort to meet my sexual needs and be upset at me for getting off to porn at the same time?

This lack of sex in our marriage and the repeated rejection I've endured and further rejection I receive for admitting to looking at porn (trying to be honest and willing to discuss always backfires, but alas, I am a horrible liar) is pushing me so far away from her that I don't know how much longer I can endure the marriage. I'm sure she would be perfectly content with me as a husband if I ceased wanting sex and looking at porn and continued to bring home the bacon and let her go about her ways. She even talks about her friends' husbands who reportedly say they are OK with lack of sex during child-raising, but since when does someone else's spouse's needs have any bearing on YOUR spouse? This has been going on for over 2 years and I've tried every way to overcome this through communication and have been seeing a counselor for 3 months now but am beginning to lose hope. When we see the counselor together or she sees him alone she focuses entirely on my various mistakes so I feel that there is no point at which any good can come of the counseling sessions as she has enough ammo to put us into bankruptcy with counseling fees.

Sorry for the long first post, but I'd really like to get some female insight into this situation since I feel like she's really not communicating with me in favor of holding a grudge against me and/or ignoring our problems.

Additional info: She's 36, been in several sexual relationships since 17, I'm 26 and was a virgin until we were married. When we do have sex I focus mostly on pleasing her and she says it is very satisfying and enjoyable. I too am satisfied when we do, but over the course of going on 3 years it has slowly gone from 3-4 times per week to possibly never again.. Also, I initially mis-handled my frustrations poorly (fits of rage, punched holes through the wall, threatened suic1de, threatened divorce, looked at porn for masturbation, etc..). Counseling has helped me get a handle on that stuff. We have two kids, I'd like to wake up with them under the same roof every morning, what the am I to do?

[pretzel]

Taking the porn out of the discussion as I think it's a different topic but not unrelated.

Thirty Six (not old), two kids in diapers (well at least one anyway). From what you said, she's pretty much been pregnant going on 2 1/2 years (i.e. 9 months with first child, 8 months not, 9 months with second child, second child only 7 mos.). Bet she doesn't feel like she did before, may not be totally comfortable with herself and has found outlets that takes those feelings away.

From a guy who's been there, been there again, this isn't anything new. Chances are if you allow her to regain the self image she had before the kids, things might just change.

[LanaBear]

Being a mom takes a lot out of a woman. Plus you have the whole 'mommy' complex to deal with. She may be dealing with that too. Mom's are not supposed to be sexy, to want sex, to put the same lips they kiss their children with on any part of their hubby's anatomy.

Not saying that any of it is right, but, it is what it is. Until she WANTS to change and knows she needs to change, she won't. Admitting wrong is not fun because that means the change is her responsibility. Been there, done that.

FWIW, it took me until my youngest was 3 1/2, oldest was about 7, for me to want to be intimate with my hubby again. I had zero desire, it was crazy given our sex life before. All in all, it was about 10 years, where my desire dropped to nothing.

Thankfully I’m the exact opposite now.

[mrwrong]

She definitely has insecurities regarding her body, but these are not the fault of my porn use as she is extremely attractive and I let her know it. She had implants years before I met her, had totally needless labioplasty (had never even heard of that before her) performed 6 weeks before our wedding despite me begging her not to, has had and wants again lip injections and vein treatments, already talking about facial plastic surgery.. though the latter has only come up once. I'm not made of money, am perfectly happy with her physically, and even have had friends tell me how hot she is (when I had time to talk to friends). She tries to look attractive everywhere she goes and knows she's attractive but it somehow isn't good enough..

I have no doubt that she doesn't feel like she used to. However, she's back down to ~127lbs and even during both pregnancies has had energy to dig huge holes in our back yard for landscaping.. For the 4 months we were engaged before we got married she was obsessed with having the perfect wedding. I feel like an idiot for not seeing this *before* I got married but there is always something consuming her time and energy. House decor, pets, and now kids and landscaping. She refused to try any form of birth control when we got married other than condoms stating "abortion pill" concerns even though she had used the pill for years in the past. And being an idiot, I went along with it.. Now there is no end to the amount of time that our 2 kids can consume (esp considering she isn't interested in baby-sitters, grandparents and daycare) and she chooses how to allocate it. I feel like I've been duped into becoming her financial enabler to have the kids and material possessions she wanted and little more. Despite having virtually no doubt about her priorities, I've been trying desperately to find some equilibrium but it is driving me insane!

So I suppose I am expected to be porn-free indefinitely with the hope that she will somehow regain her self-image and sex drive even though she has already adequately proven that pleasing her husband is a bottom-of-the-list priority? Looking at porn and masturbating is degrading to me, why should I have to resort to that to get off when I gave up everything I had for her when I married her? And of course if I look at porn again I'm back in the dog-house since that is an unforgivable atrocity right up there with having an emotional and physical affair (which I'd never dare to do). What hypocrisy! I believe it was the church and her bible college background that cause her to react so indignantly to porn and meanwhile expect me to endure neglect without the least bit of resentment. Puke! I have a newfound respect for anyone who endures a neglectful spouse long enough for the kids to grow up and move out before ending what otherwise should have ended long ago..

Is my opinion that self-satisfaction (via porn and masturbation) is no more wrong than sexual neglect of one's spouse in a marriage (and even to be expected given the circumstances) completely off-base?

[CHANDLERS WISH]

There are in my opinion alot of issues in your relationship, not just porn...

It's one thing if you have a solid, happy marriage and porn comes into it, for a short time and one doesn't like that idea and arguements occur, it's another thing if the whole marriage is not "togetherness" and that is what it seems to me is the case.

She is obsessed with her body.
Obsessed in her hobbies.
Obsessed with materialist things.

It's possible that she did have various sexual relations, is a beautiful woman, but was ditched a few times, or wrongly "used", you were a catch, a Virgin, someone who wasn't going to do that to her, want sex, as she thought she could guide that side, after all you don't know do you? But you do... and I think the councelling needs to be more on her self absorbtion.

You state that when your not around, in councelling she knit picks all about things she doesn't like about you.

But then you are accusing her of being a "neglectful spouse, punching walls, threating ( emotional blackmail), divorce, suicide, there you need to settle and understand things in life are not always going to be the way you want it... It could be simply that as a Mother, her youngest is 7 months old, she's still in the Mother phase, not interested, it happens alot for a period of time...

Threatening, being angry, holding that anger in, then letting it go even in words, is not going to help this marriage move in the right direction.

Do you know how she felt about her past? Her past relations? Why she married you, what she loved about you? How she viewed sex?

If she felt used in her past, then porn makes her feel, that's how she was treated as a piece of meat...

Your not saying you've been married for 10 years and she's neglected you all that time, and therefore, you can justify doing something someone resents, dislikes... Your saying, engaged, pregnant, small break, pregnant and still learning to get to know each other in marriage...

Your not interested in spending money on material things or bettering her body and think she's perfect in any event.

She's not interested in connecting, in a loving way, feels un-attractive, porn makes her more un-attractive and she feels not perfect.

Just keep working with her, keep the councelling going, don't use emotional blackmail, have a little understanding, as this is only young and you can push it in the right direction. Tell her it's not sex, it's intimacy, you miss the bonding between you two, and work at your marriage... It's when it goes on like this for a long time, it can be too late to change it...

Sounds as if your also throwing in the towel here.. "I should have seen it all, known better before marrying her"....

That's an easy solution ...

CW

[Fallen1]

Is my opinion that self-satisfaction (via porn and masturbation) is no more wrong than sexual neglect of one's spouse in a marriage (and even to be expected given the circumstances) completely off-base?

I think you will find that a number of the ladies here will agree with you on this.

I don't blame you in turning to porn when your situation is where it's at. It would be one thing if you were neglecting your wife for porn but it's not the case here.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

She had implants years before I met her, had totally needless labioplasty (had never even heard of that before her) performed 6 weeks before our wedding despite me begging her not to, has had and wants again lip injections and vein treatments, already talking about facial plastic surgery

..

Having big, fake boobs makes you look like a trashy porn star. Since that is essentially what all of these hollywood icons are, that makes sense. Trashy porn stars are not cool. Sure, they get noticed but they also don't get respected. Sure, they're more noticeable, but who are you trying to get noticed by? You've already been noticed by your SO apparently.

Porn on the other hand to her is equivalent to a full blown affair.

I just read what I copied and pasted above, about your thoughts of women with fake boobs, and porn, verses your wife having fake books and disliking porn.

My question therefore is, or statement if you have made her feel those thoughts, about fake breasts, even though you married her with fake breasts, wouldn't it be a fair call that she doesn't feel attractive around you, rather a trashy porn star herself? Hense the hate for porn so vivid, let alone wanting you to look or touch her body?

CW

[rcoreyus]

Unfortunately there are a lot of people (men and women) whose partners don't want sex (I'm one). If you have done your best to be good to her in and out of bed (and I think you have), then I don't see any problem with your watching porn. I think porn is a problem if it starts to replace a normal sex life (this has happened to a number of posters here), but that isn't your case.

You description of her having time for everything but sex sounds very familiar. My wife is too tire for sex, but not too tired to spend hours hiking in the mountains. She is too busy for sex, but not too busy to spend hours learning to use her new electronic gadget. You have my sympathy.

Long term though it is a problem. Without sex love tends to turn into friendship (at best). Was your sex life OK in the past? Does she realize this is a problem (or as is the case with my wife is it impossible to even discuss)?

I worry that the lack of sex can become a long term habit - I've been in a similar situation for at least 10 years now with no end or improvement in sight. Once it becomes a habit it is very difficult to change - you will sound like the person who is being unreasonable when you ask for a normal sex life.

As far as the porn, maybe you should tell her straight out - the porn is a poor substitute for the real sex life with her that you would like. You aren't a monk - what would she like you to do for sex, or does she really expect you to spend your life celibate?

[mrwrong]

CW, according to her she was never ditched but instead was the one leaving every relationship she was in because the guy wasn't Mr Right. I think you mis-read the part about threatening and anger, that was me not her... Yeah I've got faults and have done and said damaging things, but I want us to move on with our lives. I've not seen her deliberate over our problems or seek help other than to validate her opinions from her friends and mom (who btw is ~56 and been single for the past 28 years) that I shouldn't be concerned with sex or to put me with a counselor for anger-management or to fix my "porn problems". But if our baby has diarrhea or a rash one morning you bet she is all over the phones trying to speak to a nurse. Older and wiser, she is. Also it isn't that I'm not interested in spending money on her, to the contrary I had a $25k net worth before we were married and now our cumulative net worth is about -$30k. (her student loans and credit card debt, then later medical bills for the babies). Do I think I made a mistake? Yes, I'm sure she does as well. The difference is that what I really want is to find a compromise and for our family to be happy whereas I've seen no willingness to compromise on her part. So yes, I feel like throwing in the towel, but if I had already done that I wouldn't be posting on this forum.

I guess I'll stick with the counselling. At least she is willing to go when I manage to secure my parents for babysitting. She got sick of me going by myself and "not seeing any results" expressing that she'd rather the money go towards a bigger house payment.. Like I need any more stress right now.

I actually worked yesterday from 7:00 AM to 6:00 PM with a lunch break, no breakfast, and then again from ~10:30 PM to 1:00 AM after putting my son to bed, and then looked at porn for 5 minutes before attempting to masturbate before going to bed only to "get caught" putting on a condom (I found a use for them afterall) at which point I admitted to looking at porn so she got ****ed and wouldn't sleep in the same bed with me. Of course I'd have preferred to make love at any time that day had she been willing or made time. Yeah, I feel really appreciated. Feels good to vent though...

[mrwrong]

CW, I've not expressed any distaste for her implants to her, quite the contrary. Despite my best efforts to convince her that *she* is my ideal, she still seems to have the notion that porn stars are the ideal which she attained long before I came along. I agree, it is a bad situation and my looking at porn has not helped. When we got married she was aware that I looked at porn up until we started dating at which point I promised to quit. I'm sure failing to keep that promise is a big disappointment, but what can I say? How can I convince her that porn is not about wanting anyone besides her (I don't), it is just to get off!

rcoreyus, before we were married we did just about everything but have sex. Of course after we were engaged intimacy dropped dramatically in favor of wedding prep. I'd have been willing to, but she was religiously opposed to sex before marriage (despite having been ok with it in her earlier life) so I didn't pressure her. She assured me once we were married that we'd have sex *every day*! Of course I didn't expect exactly that, but that is a far cry from what really took place. Even on the honeymoon we had sex maybe three times in a full week at an all-inclusive! Later in regards to the "every day" comment she said "well I didn't mean long term, maybe just the first month".. WHAT!? Did you have your fingers crossed or something?

Sadly, our sexual relations didn't get much chance to "take off" before we got pregnant. So much for abstaining from sex before marriage, I guess that is why I wholly reject my churchy upbringing in favor of what I deem to be logically moral over blindly following the Bible. At this point I'm so scared to even get my hopes up for having intimate time, let alone her actually wanting to be sexually engaged, that porn and masturbation are just a whole lot easier than rejection and disappointment (and the even more destructive anger and resentment that follows).