[Ashlee T.]

So I'm a bit behind on this and didn't have time to read all the posts, but here's my .02.

Lack of intimacy is obviously a problem in the relationship. Lack of sex is also a problem in the relationship. Lack of friendship is also a problem in the relationship.

We can forgive, but we can't forget. That's why as adults we have to really consider our actions and our words carefully, because we cannot take them back. She cannot forget the times when you threatened suicide over lack of sex, hit the wall, etc. At that point to in her mind, sex became more important to you than her. And in her mind, it still is. She became a mother two years ago, and that's when you said this started. But at that point, you were so wrapped up in your own feeling of rejection/selfishness (you're human...I know. ) that you didn't make the connection, cut her some slack, give her the benefit of the doubt. Instead of panicked, "OH NO I MAY NEVER HAVE SEX AGAIN!?!" and did things that I'm certain she still remembers vividly.

Now, mom has two kids. Stays at home with them so is considered by you as a non worker. You're bringing home the "bacon", while she's working 24 hours a day for free. And now in your mind (or maybe even out loud, I don't know) you're nitpicking her for doing ANYTHING she might enjoy. You've mentioned her landscaping more than once.....something she enjoys doing, stress relief, something she can do and see immediate results from, something productive giving self worth. But you resent her for it and in your mind it seems as if you've decided that because she's going through a period in her life where she doesn't have interest in sex (which MANY women with little ones do) that she shouldn't be doing ANYTHING she enjoys if she's not having sex with you. And I'm pretty sure that you know that's not fair.

Now where the porn is concerned, some people are okay with porn, some people find it demoralizing, degrading, sickening, perverted. We are all entitled to our opinions. If she has always felt this way about porn, I'm not surprised that she still does. Doesn't seem like she has a problem with you masturbating....only the porn. Part of it could also be the uneasiness she has regarding you. She feels like you place the important of sex above everything else....so in her mind, to what extent would you go?

With two little ones, it's certainly not the time to have to go through relationship counseling and focus on your alls problems. Ideally anyway. IMO when people decide to start a family there should be a grace period....a time period of understanding that things may not get done like they used to, kids will be top priority, and mom can't be expected to be responsible for pleasing (in whatever form) EVERYONE ALL the time. During this period of time, husband and wife (assuming they love each other) should accept their new role in the relationship, and work through it TOGETHER. This should not be a time to threaten divorce over lack of sex, or begrudge someone some time to themselves to enjoy, or complain about how things have "changed"....because of COURSE they've changed. When you truly love them, as your partner, your best friend, you do sacrifice things at time...you work through different times in your lives, and you come out stronger (much like LanaBear described).

Maybe that was a few dollars instead of 2 cents.... but there ya go.

[mrwrong]

Thanks for the thoughts/opinions/advice everyone. Discussions haven't gone well so far, she just views me as a sick, detestable pervert for not hating myself as much as she apparently does for looking at porn. I went through enough of that in my teens and am over it. She says she won't allow the kids to grow up in the same house as me as long as there is any chance they would be exposed to it and even said she wanted me to move out. I definitely have a long bumpy road ahead...

[LanaBear]

You have such an unfortunate situation on your hands and it is incredibly fair that your hands are obviously tied. The person not wanting the sex has all the control in the relationship and that is hardly fair or rather it sucks.

Good luck with everything. Hopefully you can both come out stronger.

[stressed]

Thanks for the thoughts/opinions/advice everyone. Discussions haven't gone well so far, she just views me as a sick, detestable pervert for not hating myself as much as she apparently does for looking at porn. I went through enough of that in my teens and am over it. She says she won't allow the kids to grow up in the same house as me as long as there is any chance they would be exposed to it and even said she wanted me to move out. I definitely have a long bumpy road ahead...

As mentioned above, she's always disliked porn and you were aware of that. So it should not come as a surprise that she still dislikes it, whether you have sex or not. If you constantly argue then this does not make for a pleasant environment for the children either, let alone for the sex issue. Her problem is that you said you won't watch porn and you do. Your problem is that you don't have any sex, so porn is the only way for you to, at least, watch some sex.

In theory, if you get her back into wanting sex again then both of the problems will be solved, so perhaps this is what you should focus on more than arguing about porn. You have to figure out why she abstains from sex, what is she missing, what is wrong. To argue about porn or even make her accept porn won't solve the problem. You still won't be having sex and she will still feel miserable about you watching it, even if she would openly accept it.

Hopefully counseling will reveal why she is so against sex (even though there seem to be reasons behind that, but you know each other much better than we do) and you won't need to argue about porn again because you simply won't need it. You just need to focus the problem on your sex life because it's more damaging in a relationship than masturbation.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

mrwrong...

You stated that she knew that you watched porn before, but you stopped it, obviously for her.

You stated you were a Virgin before you married her, she knew that too.

You stated you are 26, therefore 23 when you met her, young.. and still new to this World in making mistakes.. she should realise that.

You stated she admitted that you have grown...

Tell me, what does a 36 year old Woman, whom has a degree in councelling, not understand about the above?

Your answer is to tell her, the above "baring the last paragraph".. You fell back into a past pattern, the only one you knew before her, the only visualisation of sex, your young, it makes sense to you why you did it, and we all learn.. It makes sense to you why she doesn't like it, your growing into an Adult, your children are important, they do not need to see that, you understand that and you'll again, work towards letting it be a past ... the only past you knew... as you never had sex....

And, then tell her that do two people not compromise? You miss her, miss the bond... The person you married who smiled at you and believed in you, that ticked all the right boxes and the woman who showed you how to become a man... So, your prepared to see her way, her side, and you'd like her to see yours and grow in this marriage.

CW

[mrwrong]

stressed,
I'd prefer the subject of porn never come up myself.. I make sure she never sees it and only when she flat out asks me do I tell her. At that point she'll hardly talk to me so in trying to communicate about anything at that point makes it almost impossible not to talk about it. I can hardly talk to her because all she hears is me trying to justify it. I don't want porn! I want a wife! Also, we don't argue in front of the kids, just when they're asleep.

CW,
She'll compromise on what vehicle we buy, or what restaurant we'll eat at, but in my experience she won't compromise when it comes to sex and kids. I tell her that we'll never get anywhere if all she wants to do is be angry at me rather than try to understand me to which she replies that she doesn't need to understand me, porn is evil and she wants nothing to do with me as long as I don't see it the same way she does. It's a slippery slope to be sure. I don't openly condone looking at porn, but I won't judge anyone who looks at it as an alternative to anything questionable involving women in person while they are single or involuntarily celibate. I don't think I'm going to be able to convince myself that I'm a sick sick sick detestable evildoer. At least I hope not...

I learned something new last night though.. Apparently she was exposed to her father's porn at a young age. Background: This was shortly before her parents were divorced when she was 8. They married young and he was cheating repeatedly, and after the divorce her father allegedly skipped on child support and fled to MO (probably true) and remarried shortly after. Today, he's a great guy and my wife has a good relationship with him despite his past. Her mother as I said before never remarried and I'm sure never will (at least not for anything but money). She and my wife both seem to have the same opinion of anyone that openly wants sex: that it is silly.. Her mother is quite a character, but extremely attractive, esp when she was younger. IMO she's not remarried because she (understandably) seems to have some problem with men and sex, though I don't know to what degree.. Either way, not a healthy role model or source of advice for my wife unfortunately.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Well, there is only one solution and I believe that everyone is now stating that in your case anyway.

She was exposed to porn as a child.. She sees it as evil, obviously played a big part on her mind then. She does not ever ever want her children to go through what she did, that's her priogrative given her background, that's her wish, her desire and she has reasons behind it.

So until you can "respect" that and put your "porn" in to the past as something you did do as you were a Virgin and that was your only release, she doesn't mind masterbation, until you can see that it is/has affected your partner and is a crutial part of her (not) wants of life, there is no future for you both.

Your decision, but this is not one to compromise. This is an evident thing and one she wrote on a wish list and one you knew of before you married and therefore, respect has to come into it, as you agreed then....

My ex and I were going to have one child. He married me, and then stated "no", costs too much... WT? And, needless to say, our sex life went down hill through his fear I would get pregnant deliberately, but ultimately, he lied, ultimately, once the ring was on my finger it changed, and ultimately, he lost as now I am in another relationship and he no longer has me.

That's what your up against... reversed....

[stressed]

May I just suggest masturbation without porn for a while? Until things calm down and you are able to communicate better, or at least, until counseling can help? With her views on it and the lack of sex life watching porn is like throwing oil into the fire.

I keep answering here because I really want to see this solved, or at least be on the right track. I have been on your end of this, plus he was the one watching porn and not wanting sex, and I can understand the frustration of both of you. But perhaps insisting on porn is not the best way to go, especially at the moment? Would you be willing to quit porn again for her sake? Sex life has its ups and downs, it can be bad for a long time but it can also get better. It doesn't mean that she will never be sexual with you ever again, maybe she needs the right approach at the right time to get it started again. You shouldn't lose hope.

[mrwrong]

I'm not refusing to give up porn. I've told her that I will stop and have intended to in the past but that is a lot easier said than done when I get no "help" from my wife and begin to feel extremely depressed, frustrated and resentful about it. About a month or two into not having sex and not looking at porn I begin to doubt that abstaining from porn has any purpose. How long is long enough for her to quit viewing me as filthy vermin and start treating me like a human being? 6 months? 20 years? The fact is, it will always be a temptation as long as I'm masturbating and unless I take some anti-depressant or something that kills my sex drive or our sex life turns around I will probably always be masturbating. If I'm constantly being tempted because my wife treats me like I don't exist, what kind of existence is that? I've strongly considered anti-depressants but just the thought of taking anti-depressants in order to make the marriage last/bearable is itself quite depressing.. Am I to just roll over and die (metaphorically speaking)? I know that if (god forbid) one of our children was ever in the same position as I am she'd feel a lot different about it then. Though if I accomplish anything in my lifetime it will be to make sure that doesn't happen.

[rcoreyus]

Taking anti-depressants because of a real problem in your life doesn't seem a good idea. You have a reason to be depressed - you have been forced into unreasonable celibacy. You did give up porn for 2 months you say, and that didn't fix things. Maybe she is just using the porn as one more excuse for not having sex.

I've gone though decades of listening to excuses - have gotten tired of fixing the excuses, because there are always more. I've concluded my wife simply doesn't want sex. Maybe you are in the same spot. If there wasn't porn, it would be her need to spend more time with the kids, or she would be feeling poorly or tired. Maybe she will take anything you ask for in bed as disgusting.

I wish I had some suggestion for you. Any chance she would be willing to go to counseling with you? It might be the only way for her to get another opinion on this.