[Guest]

first of all i do not believe what you have written

of course not - it would totally deflate your silly stance on this issue. you can't afford to believe stories like this.

better off to deny it & stick your head back down in the sand.

or back into a pile of porn.

same difference, really. both will keep you safely shielded from seeing things clearly.

[Guest]

and to the women who complain that they get no sex, because of porn, GET A DIVORCE problem solved.

more great advice.

dude, i've said it before - you're a miracle worker.

you should bottle this wisdom. you'd make a fortune.

problem is, every young adolescent has already adopted this perspective.

but maybe you could sell it to other adults who don't like to be accountable to anyone or anything.

[Guest]

because they are sex deprvied and bored

really?

dude, is this why you & hotdogg are so into porn?

[the dude]

of course not - it would totally deflate your silly stance on this issue. you can't afford to believe stories like this.

better off to deny it & stick your head back down in the sand.

or back into a pile of porn.

same difference, really. both will keep you safely shielded from seeing things clearly.

now what is you're problem whilhelm?

i noticed how you simply over look he fact that gia cheats on her husband do you think that is ok?

and my sex life is fantastic thanks, i bet it is better than yours, i get sex all the time, my wife is hot i am far from bored, we love sex, do you have a problem with that.

[Guest]

i noticed how you simply over look he fact that gia cheats on her husband do you think that is ok?

i didn't look over it at all. it has absolutely NO bearing on whether or not porn is destructive. my comments were directed at your denial that her story could even be true, obviously - not about whether or not cheating is ok.

and my sex life is fantastic thanks, i bet it is better than yours, i get sex all the time, my wife is hot i am far from bored, we love sex, do you have a problem with that.

ok. and my dad can beat up your dad. that's great.

the point - again, obviously - is that someone said the reason men watch porn is because they are sex deprived & bored. i was, with your help, proving that to be a false statement.

[Guest]

So wives, rather than wasting your money on couples therapy, focus on yourselves, your children and your life, not his! Finish that college degree, work out at the health club, visit Europe, Just don't make your husband your focal point. (In my situation, I enjoy having sex with other men, this works for me, I am still young and attractive!)

gia.

not to take away fropm or trivialize the pain you've endured. it obviously has been huge - and i'm sorry.

but the attitude you're presenting is ironically not too different from the one that reels men into porn addiction. porn addiction is a sickness, a disease. a porn addict is not a ___ or a ____ (fill in the blank).

a porn addict is just a person - who is afflicted with a sickness.

i'm not condoning or faulting your giving up on your husband - nor were you asking me to. i'm mainly addressing your advice to others. the same selfishness that would drive one partner to repeatedly ignore another to feed a porn addiction is the same selfishness that could drive the other partner to write the addict off & pursue their own happiness.

both are destructive - both are lies. porn doesn't bring sexual liberation nor does the selfish pursuit of happiness bring any kind of real freedom.

your experience has obviously been awful - i regret that. but there are many, many counselors who treat this sickness skillfully, and many men who recover from this disease with the same wonder as do so many cancer victims return from radiation to health.

if my spouse is addicted - that may make her ugly to me. but my commitment to honor, love & not give up on her transcends the ugliness. just as it would if the ugliness were due to weight gain, a burn accident, or any other condition.

i realize porn addiction is different - and there comes a point at which you cannot change the behavior & you may need to wipe your hands & move on.

but advising the spouse of any porn addicted man to give up & not consider therapy is dangerous.

silver is only precious after it's been burned & the dross removed.

no different with men.

giving up while they're in the fire would be a shame -

[Guest]

What in the world could a 16 or 17 year old CHILD have to offer to a group of group of GROWN MEN & WOMEN about marital issues? And even more importantly, why would a young lady your age even want to be involved in a discussion like this anyway?????

I know that you might be curious and I can understand that, but I think that it is very unfortunate that you are not even 18 years old yet and you already have such a hard heart when it comes right and wrong. You sound so jaded and your attitude is so vile and disgusting for a girl your age. It?s down right pitiful??and I?m not just talking about you. I?m talking about ?youth? in general. I know that you think that you can ?hang with the big dogs?, but you have no earthly idea how much more living you have to do before you can become qualified to participate in this discussion - regardless of how much you THINK you know. Some of these people have been married longer than you?ve been alive and you think you can give advice to them? Please?.

You have no idea what it?s like to be a GROWN WOMAN who is working her fingers to the bone to be a good wife, and good mother and a good employee at work ?.burning the candle at both ends ?..and then have to deal with a husband who thanks you for it by looking at another woman on the internet. One day, if you ever become enough of a lady to ever get married, you might just change your tune and not have such a cavalier attitude about this subject. When or if you ever get married, you?re going to find out how much work it?s going to be to be a wife and a mother?and you?re going to expect to be cherished and appreciated and honored by your husband . And God forbid, if you find out that while you are doing everything that you can to be a good wife and mother , he?s in some back room enjoying another women on the TV screen - you?re going to think back to how you mocked the people on this website and you?ll be sorry.

Porn has no value whatsoever in society. It is TRASH, plain & simple and a good marriage has no need for it. One day I hope that you meet a man that feels the same way so that you won?t have to make excuses for him. In the mean time, you need to diligently find a positive female role-model for your life. One who can teach you that women have value and that wives deserve to be honored.

If you want to keep posting messages on this issue, that?s fine. But just keep in mind that you?re only going to be 16/17 once. You?ll be an adult with adult issues soon enough. If you were smart, you?d enjoy this precious time of your life because when it?s over it?s over.

What's with all the downtalk? This isn't uplifting or inspiring at all. I mean, do YOU think you're a good female role model?

I know you don't like me being here. I know you don't like what I've said. Don't expect me to listen to the same mouth that calls me vile and disgusting.

If I had a different outlook on this opinion you'd probably tell me what a wonderful wife I'd be in a few years to come. I hope you know that I'm not they only person here that thinks a certain way about porn. Is it wrong to just tell someone to get over it and deal? Surely, for you it is, but for me it's just a natural thing to say. Of course the VERY MATURE females in my life would kill me if they saw anything I typed about this topic, but I have my own opinion and I've thought like this for a very long time and it doesn't bother me one bit. I, personally, think I'll grow up to be a very dependable woman with the essence of everything that makes one a woman. At the present time, I'm nowhere near that, but I can atleast make myself into a better person while I'm at it. You, putting me down because I said something that ticked you off, isn't really adult now is it? Engaging in an argument with someone your junior and implying that they're not smart isn't the nicest thing to do.

Also, what's with you wanting me to dread not being 16 anymore? I feel the need to embrace my adulthood when it comes and not hold back. That's some bad advice to give someone.

Stop arguing with me and trying to make me feel like dirt. It's not working. Just be happy with your life and stop bothering me about mine.

P.S. For the record, I'm not a housewife. I will not be a housewife and there is a chance I might not get married...although that fluctuates. Excuse me for not bending over. Thank you.

[Gia]

Porn=Creepy+Perverted STOP PORN!

first of all i do not believe what you have written, if you are telling the truth then you are a very petty person, and i would not touch you with a barge pole.

"More Power to You!" I would not want you either! You appear to be very immature and judgemental! The men I date Must be my age or older, non judgemental, not married, straight, and must have advanced college Graduate degrees such as myself!

if you did not like the fact your husband watched porn why did'nt you divorce him straight away? instead you cheated on him, oh and looking at porn is not cheating you just did'nt like the fact your husband looked at other women, sorry but all men look, do you think that the men you were porking only had eyes for you?

Yes, it is normal for men to look at women and visa versa,(looking is acceptable, however gawking is not acceptable!) and masturbating to Porn rather than making love to your wife is not healthy. To answer your question: "Do you think that the men you were porking (btw, great vocabulary! are you an English Teacher?) only had eyes for you"? I don't care whether the men I have sex with "only have eyes for me" or not because it is just a date and sex with absolutely "no emotional attachment whatsoever"! and there will never be any emotional attachment in my lifetime because I "have been there done that" emotional attachment scenario with my Porn addicted husband and it destroyed my marriage and the relatiohship our children had with their father (no relationship with him, their choice!)

Yeah, I should have divorced him many years ago, however I was a very supportive wife and I went with him to every counseling session for many years.(and he still did not stop using PORN, He is a pathelogical liar as most PORN Addicted men are!) The entire marriage and time we were in counseling, I was faithful to him sexually, romantically, spiritually, passionately etc... I was committed to him and I was a wonderful wife and an excellent listener. His PORN use destroyed my entire self esteem. (Why would a man hurt their wives intentionally like that if they claim that they love them!) Apparently, he did not love me enough to stop the Porn, he obviously loves the PORN women more. I went to sleep many nights depressed, angry, crying all night because he wouldn't make love to me.(I couldn't concentrate on my career nor my children because I was focusing on his Porn addiction). I then started to build a "brick wall" around me, thus making my children and my needs #1. I joined a Women's support group to conclude that Yes, most men do LOVE porn, more than their wives, therefore I do not and I will not trust another man and I will never marry again nor become emotionally attached again! I also concluded that MOST MEN REALLY DO NOT WANT COMMITTED RELATIONSHIPS NOR MARRIAGE (The women usually push the men into marriage, and men later resent their wives for this.) Most men are masognists. (They hate women and only use them to satisfy themselves sexually and by women feeding men's egos!) I have re-directed my thought process by "thinking like a man" with regards to me never getting emotionally attached to a man again, (I will date men, have great romance, passion, sex etc....that is it!) We are all adults here and there is nothing wrong with me dating....my divorce will final soon! The only difference between men and myself is most men love porn and I hate it (it destroyed my marriage! I could never figure out why a married man with an attractive wife would rather masturbate to the PORN women prostitutes! These women are filthy, dirty, ****** and air brushed women (many look like DRAG QUEENS and most likely are!) These women do not practice safe sex and often transmit AIDS and Herpes to their "on screen and off screen PORN men". Why the heck would a married man want to masturbate to these "horrific creatures" and not make love and have sex with their faithful wifes?

Furthermore, I will never end up alone, I have my children, pets, wonderful career and men who enjoy dating me. (we go to movies, plays, concerts, dancing, vacations,, great romance etc..)'Sex is icing on the cake... many times sex is not important if we are both tired after dancing etc...It is the male companionship and having a man's perspective on vacations, theater, museums, concerts and doing these things with a man, I enjoy the most! My husband was too tired and un-productive to do these things with me because,.yeah you got it, he was too busy engaging in the PORN. Why should I be denied of the fun I can have with the men I like to date? I refuse to miss out on this stage of my life. Also, there were many family days I planned over the weekend with my husband, children and I to visit Museums, Zoo', Movies and taking our children to Chuck E' Cheese. I often did this alone without my husband because he claimed he was tired. He was actually home immersed in PORN and not a father to his children. His PORN addiction made me feel like a single mother!

with your mind set you will end up alone for sure, and it will serve you right.

AS I said, I will never end up alone, I have wonderful children, pets, a great career and men to date and vacation with! (I was more alone in a marriage with a PORN addicted husband.) Being with my husband were dark and confusing days. Men who use Porn in a marriage do not deserve the love, admiration and support they get from a wife. These wives need to move forward and make themselves, their children and their own identity and sexually their focal point and Not their porn addicted husbands. When they continue to make their husbands their "focal point", they feed their husband's ego even more, and contribute to the addiction even more, thus these women become co-dependents and miserable the remainder of their lives! especially if these women aren't receiving sexual pleasure from their husbands, many of these wives will feel abandoned by their PORN addicted husbands and therefore seek the attention and pleasure elsewhere!

Furthermore, "We are born alone and we die alone!" and "Nothing lasts forever"! My new views on life are "hope for the best, but expect the worst" then when the worst happens, it will not be as traumatic! This has made me a stronger and happier woman!"

[jmflu]

another thank-you to Whilhelm

I posted this earlier today on another thread that seems to be at the end of its run and now the same subject has taken up on this thread, so I am going to copy and paste what I wrote here where the topic currently lives.

I joined to say "thank you" to whilhelm for doing such an excellent job on here as he struggles to inform and educate so many of you who couldn't care less about anything other than your own self-gratification. He calmly continues to provide solid reasoning for the point that porn is destructive. If you have not experienced it in your own life, you will think he is a religious extremist, apparently. Perhaps you have never noticed that our young teens are walking around with "juicy" printed on the back of their shorts. Advertising their sexuality, that which society struggles to protect until the magic age of "18," at which time many of them with such little hope and self-esteem are so desensitized to moral value that they are willing to sell their bodies to the porn industry and to all of the world as a whole. As I grew up, my father kept Playboys by his easy chair in front of the television. My older sister will never forget when he showed her a centerfold of a teenager, hair in pigtails and wearing a plaid skirt to obviously mimic a schoolgirl, and made a comment about her good-looking boobs. That memory has disturbed her for decades, and given her reason to wonder about my father and the fact that he saw no problem with showing her porn at her age and revealing the fact that images of girls her age sexually aroused him. I grew up thinking sex was dirty because my father forbade us from being in the room during an "R" rated movie yet helped himself to his hedonism in many forms as his right as an adult. I read the stories in Playboy and began writing my own. I was disturbed by what I was writing. I hadn't yet experienced sex in any form but my mind was taking a path into the gutter where sexual gratification evolved into scenes of disgust including a man urinating on his partner. I wrote with a knowledge I still am amazed I had at that age, as I stare at my child-like handwriting and wonder why I was so disturbed by sex.

I think a lot of women are confused between the difference in a real "male" and a real "man," Whilhelm. You are the kind of man that most women DREAM of. You have been there and done that with the porn, and you came out on the other side with knowledge to share about your experiences. I just want to thank you so much for standing up and taking all the **** that we're reading coming from people who can only call you names. You're going to need a lot of luck in convincing a a dude and a pig what a real man really means. It doesn't mean the kind you see at football games reverting to his caveman-like state. It means he realizes what he wants and still puts the wants of someone dear to him first. Everyone knows sex is alluring. Men and women alike. According to our individual experiences, it is either a good, bad, or neutral thing, with most feeling strongly one way or another. It's certainly easy enough to go online and see a nude woman. The fact that you can actually see a man come in her mouth and her swallow it with seemingly wild abandon, not getting enough, is exciting enough for the males you're talking to on here to not give a **** about what else is going on in the universe. Who cares that their watching porn proliferates it? After all, it's not their daughter walking down the street with "juicy" on her ***.

They're the one imagining just how juicy she is.

[Gia]

Stop PORN!

gia.

not to take away fropm or trivialize the pain you've endured. it obviously has been huge - and i'm sorry.

Whilhelm,

You seem attentative to this issue and I commend you for it. Thanks, I appreciate your imput!

but the attitude you're presenting is ironically not too different from the one that reels men into porn addiction. porn addiction is a sickness, a disease. a porn addict is not a ___ or a ____ (fill in the blank).

a porn addict is just a person - who is afflicted with a sickness.

i'm not condoning or faulting your giving up on your husband - nor were you asking me to. i'm mainly addressing your advice to others. the same selfishness that would drive one partner to repeatedly ignore another to feed a porn addiction is the same selfishness that could drive the other partner to write the addict off & pursue their own happiness.

The women on this site do not need to take my advice, They are free to do whatever they want to whether it is wasting their hard earned money on Pseudo therapists, or making their lives better by focusing on themselves and their children. Dating other men works for me. I am not saying that this it right, I am just saying that this happens to work for me, My attributes: I am a professional wonderful mother. I contribute to the community a great deal, I am not looking to be judged! Don't worry, I endured the "hurt and pain of my lifetime and I will never allow myself to be hurt and be in that dark place again!

both are destructive - both are lies. porn doesn't bring sexual liberation nor does the selfish pursuit of happiness bring any kind of real freedom.

I date men in moderation, therefore it is not "self destructive" My children and myself are first priority, then my career second, third are my weekly dates with men.

your experience has obviously been awful - i regret that. but there are many, many counselors who treat this sickness skillfully, and many men who recover from this disease with the same wonder as do so many cancer victims return from radiation to health.

The recovery rate is less that one percent!

I went to couples counselors who specifically stated that "to maintain my marriage, I should engage in the SICK PORN with my husband." For some reason, our society and many psychotherapists blame, mothers and wives for everything that goes wrong within a marriage. Their logic is that it is never the male's fault!" I wish Dr. Phil was my Psychologist, He is the only Psychologist I truely trust!

if my spouse is addicted - that may make her ugly to me. but my commitment to honor, love & not give up on her transcends the ugliness. just as it would if the ugliness were due to weight gain, a burn accident, or any other condition.

More Power to You! I did try for over 10 years to help my husband!

i realize porn addiction is different - and there comes a point at which you cannot change the behavior & you may need to wipe your hands & move on.

but advising the spouse of any porn addicted man to give up & not consider therapy is dangerous.

The women on this site do not need to take my advice, They are free to do whatever they want to whether it is wasting their hard earned money on Pseudo therapists, or making their lives better by focusing on themselves and their children exclusively!

You must be either a therapist or affiliated with one?

silver is only precious after it's been burned & the dross removed.

no different with men.

giving up while they're in the fire would be a shame -

I am Just moving forward every day in my life!