[Pollon]

I'll speculate.

I think "sex" has been oversold to everyone.

It goes like this:

The media is financed by advertisers who want to sell stuff. The media has to stoke our sense of discontent so the advertisers can sell us stuff that purportedly will assuage our discontent. And so the cycle goes.

Sex in the media is presented in the same way that material goods are-- better than what we've got. Seriously, have you ever seen sex presented the way YOU have sex? Sure, you may have GREAT sex, but can you ever say you've done it the way it's portrayed in the media? Clean, perfect, mutually and simultaneously earth-shatteringly satisfying. Have you EVER seen a sex scene (other than one that wasn't specifically intended to make you uncomfortable) that you didn't think, "I'd like to do it like that?" or "I'd like to get THAT reaction from my partner."

The result of all this is that many people think, I'm not enough to give my partner that kind of pleasure. So women start enhancing things with diets, make-up, wax, clothing and surgery. And men start enhancing things with pills, pumps and implants.

Everyone ends up insecure and feeling inferior.

Most decent men desperately want to please their wives --- sexually and otherwise. In fact, one of the greatest turn-ons for a man is seeing that pleasure in his woman's face.

Then men come up with the idea/fantasy that the reason they don't see the media version of pleasure in their partner's face during sex is because somehow he doesn't measure up -- ie, he isn't "manly" or big enough. Thus, a solution to the problem is to find the most "manly" specimen to provide the pleasure he can't.

And who can fault his belief that the black man is the most "manly" guy there is? Aren't most of the pro athletes in "powerful" sports black men? Doesn't the media perpetuate that stereotype?

Fortunately, most men realize that the portrayal of sex in the media isn't real and that there's more to a woman's pleasure than size and force. Nonetheless, the "fantasy" has it's libidinal appeal for some men.

Which, IMO (sorry Little), is exactly what this OP (most likely a male) was going for at our expense.

[Stillness]

Sure, you may have GREAT sex, but can you ever say you've done it the way it's portrayed in the media? Clean, perfect, mutually and simultaneously earth-shatteringly satisfying.

I've had some pretty satisfying sex. It's rare that sex is not pretty awesome.

I don't buy into the modern, western concept of race, so that stuff just misses me nowadays.

[effy2014]

Most decent men desperately want to please their wives --- sexually and otherwise. In fact, one of the greatest turn-ons for a man is seeing that pleasure in his woman's face.

While I agree with some of what you wrote (especially about the OP), I disagree completely with the motive. I think most men could care less about pleasing their women. The other men, represented by most of the men here, care a great deal that WE please our women. We wouldn't leave any stone unturned, trick undone or toy unused in our efforts. But I dare say that, for me, using a surrogate would not be under consideration. Thinking about another man being intimate with my SO or thinking that she would be thinking about another man when we made love, would kill the relationship. I want to out the smile on her face not anyone else. Call me selfish.

There was another thread similar to this in which many theories were postulated. One real possibility is a cuckhold fetish where the man gets off on being humiliated and made to watch. Another goes in the completely opposite direction, that the fantasy is entirely misogynistic, where the man wants to see his chattel used for pleasuring others. There may be voyeur component. But I do not think it is looking for her pleasure ... it is all about fulfilling the fantasy of the husband.

[Something_Awesome]

For example rappers ....with the exception of Eminem, most white guys who rap seem to be considered posers.) Somehow the specific topic of this thread seems a bit more seedy than just a basic generalization like that could account for tho. In a strange way it's almost objectification, much like traditionally happened with women and porn.

What confuses the issue even more is that there does seem to be a trend among black men in the last decade or two to "get white women," almost like it's a retaliatory thing, as if the objective is at least in part to shame white men...

Ok, first the white rapper thing. I get why you would think that; heck, I used to think that. But I've talked to quite a few black Brooklyners who said they loved Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" and there was nobody in their neighborhood that didn't (I bring this up because Vanilla Ice was the first white rapper). To many people, music has no color lines. What made the Brooklyners eventually dislike Vanilla Ice and consider him a poser was over an incident that was rumored to happen where he got "punk'd" by a rap music mogul. Brooklyners at that point viewed Vanilla Ice as soft and unworthy. Brooklyners hate soft.

Second, about the trend of black guys dating white women... Well, I feel like that trend has plateaued or lost momentum (at least in Los Angeles). GF and I were in Santa Monica on Sunday and we both observed how many white guys we saw with black women. It was one after the other. There was salsa dancing on the street and, just there alone, we saw three white guys each with a black date doing salsa dancing.

I have made one other observation, and I hope I do not catch any flak for this... Typically, the black guys I see that end up with white women have paired with a white woman that is, in my opinion, on a lower tier than the black guys are in terms of looks. I mean, I've seen them choose white women that are way down there as far as looks go. I can speak to this because I am comfortable enough with my masculinity to judge whether I think a guy is hot or not. The white men, on the other hand, are usually with some pretty darn good looking black women. The white man that is with that good looking black woman ain't too bad himself. I actually have noticed black men look at these couples with resentment.

These are just my observations in Los Angeles and I do not intend to draw any conclusions from them. I am not that interested in drawing any conclusions from them either.

[Stillness]

SA, I think your "lower tier" judgement goes back to earlier conversations about whether or not beauty is objective. There are probably women you'd think were knockouts that I'd think were average and vice versa.

Then there are other aspects beyond physical beauty that attract. Like maybe your "higher tier black" man and the "lower tier white" woman were loyal childhood friends.

[Something_Awesome]

I understand the subjectivity behind it, but westernized people don't have huge defiations in who they find beautiful. Sorry, but I know what I saw and not many would disagree. I also never met anyone that ended up with their childhood friend.

[Stillness]

I understand the subjectivity behind it, but westernized people don't have huge defiations in who they find beautiful. Sorry, but I know what I saw and not many would disagree. I also never met anyone that ended up with their childhood friend.

We had another poster a while back with a similar view. He felt like there was at least an objective North American standard. In my experience it doesn't exist. There's a thread on here where he cites a few women that are the most beautiful that I think are average. There's a celebrity crush thread where you can see the vast differences in what people do an do not like.

Also plenty of people end up with childhood sweethearts. Depending on how you define childhood, I did (although we were almost legally adults). Unlike past girlfriends, my wife was not immediately attractive to me. I don't think she found me attractive either. It was our friendship, shared experience, and personalities that caused the attraction to bloom.

[Por La Playa]

I am really replying to both Jen and Karen and your questions from the perspective of a healthy relationship, which is what we all want right?

Karen, your husband of 20 years has planted a seed in your head that has turned into a tree. At this point you will go through with it. Question is whether or not your husband should be in the room when it happens. You may think about it a lot, but it's not something you can involve a 3rd party in lightly.

You said:


Hi I'm Karen I've been with my husband for over 20 years I was shocked when he told me he had a fetish that he would like to see me have sex with a younger black man and told me lots of couples do it and it good to spice up a relationship I was a bit confused at first but after a good long chat with him I was starting to get aroused by it I do look at hot black men has anyone else done this and if so did it work or split the relationship up.

Think about your reaction that he wants to see that. As a fetish that fits what he wants to see. Your husband backs this up with "lots of couples do it." As someone who cares about him, you entertain the thought. It shocks you that being faithful to him suddenly is becoming complex.

The simple answer is to stop worrying so about what he wants to see. It has to be about what you want to see. It was his idea. You have to test it out, and it comes down to whether you'll feel entirely comfortable with him there and watching -- this man you thought you knew! Guess what! It's more important to know yourself right now! Trust me, he'll still be aroused by his fetish should you come to the conclusion that he should be there.

[Gulliver]

My wife and I had been married for 22 years and she confessed the desire to have sex with a black male co-worker. I was stunned but after discussing the issue and where we both stood, we opted for an open relationship. Although we never discussed if she actually satisfied her desire, intuitively, I think she did. We have continued together in the same open relationship and we both agree that it is healthier.

[Chris1969]

Jen has hit the nail on the head here - it's all about the sexual fantasy & power of a black bull taking the hotwife & I'll go 1 step further - the humiliation of it all is a fantastic turn on too... I've been married 18 years & it's been totally loyal both ways but my god the thought of seeing my wife with a black bull really gets me! I know it's a naughty secret but I'm honest about it!!!