[lafemelle]

Absolutely, and vitamin D is quite honestly such a simple answer if it is going to be cured. Just make sure if you are to follow through with something like this that you talk with your doctor about what else can happen to your body with a 50,000 IU dose.

The vitamin D test was a doctor's order and I see her in a week and a half--I'm not going to take that much vitamin D unless she prescribes it to me and gives me a specific treatment plan. I'm through experimenting on my own with this condition, that has always made matters worse for me.

[Sarah001]

Amazingly I've only used a couple of pessaries (oestrogen) so far and I actually have a little bit of moisture going on down there! Obviously it hasn't made a difference to the skin at this point but I can't believe how quickly it's helped the dryness, I was literally as dry as sand and the discharge it's encouraged looks completely normal, amazing!

[lafemelle]

Sarah, I'm so happy to hear the good news! As long as you've had the problem, I imagine skin improvement will take a long time--but the fact that you've noticed a positive change, and so soon, is wonderful!

[depressed10]

?

I think I am confused on what exactly is meant by 'chronic bacterial vaginosis'. I know this sounds crazy but I noticed that some women get tested every time and have BV but what about the people who had it diagnosed once, took antibiotics and every culture comes back negative for BV? Even the DNA test comes back negative for BV but the person still has itching, burning and light odor. This would be my case. I have only been treated with 2 antibiotics Tindamax and Flagyl. I have had 3 cultures and 1 DNA test and only one culture came back with BV...that was the first one. My doctor doesn't call in antibiotics every time I have an issue which I am grateful for because I would be desperate enough to take them. I haven't even been on the creme..which is okay with me too.
But when I went back to see her last Wednesday, I told her I was having mainly itching, light burning and light odor. She said that she wants me to try the boric acid next. She also did another DNA test and this time they are going to check for about 8 or 9 different things. I actually took her some information on what they need to look for and that's what she checked for them to look for. I haven't received my test results yet because it takes a while for them to come back. And for those of you that think it is a hormone problem (and I'm not saying it's not) I had my hormones tested too because I had a partial hysterectomy in January 2010 (I'm 40 yrs old). My hormones were fine but she did say that I may have PMDD. I had the hysterectomy because I was tired of having surgery to remove fibroids. So all of this bv stuff has been going on since June 2010. So I don't really know if I am considered to have chronic bv even though the cultures and DNA test are negative. I use the rephresh pro-b (too expensive), rephresh, folic acid and vitamin D (I also had these levels checked and it was low too). I also take a prescription called Metanex which contains a lot of folic acid and b6 and b12. It is a prescription given to me by my Neurologist for neuropathy. Sooooooo, I guess I will wait to see what the test results are. I think I am going to try the boric acid. I saw where someone used boric acid with KY Jelly to stop the irritation. I am going to try this as well. Next stop...prayer for everyone suffering with this whether you want me to or not (smile)

I was wondering if you ladies were checked for some other type of bacteria other than BV? Also, do you test positive for BV every time you go in? I guess once you have it, you could not necessarily have it diagnosed but it can very well cause other problems.......i don't know anymore.

[Sarah001]

Amelillo I had a thought last night, it could be completely along the wrong lines, but it suddenly occurred to me that if oestrogen increases discharge as well as it seems to could you be oestrogen dominant and therefore low on progesterone? I know it can happen and some doctors say it happens alot more often than low oestrogen. I may be completely wrong but it's just something that popped into my head last night. I can't recall if you had your hormones checked or not but I know natural progesterone cream is widely available online as it doesn't carry the dangers oestrogen does so you could give it a go if it sounds like that might be going on. Just a thought and I may be way off the mark.

[lafemelle]

depressed, I know you can be tested for specific types of bacteria; personally, I've ALWAYS tested negative for BV (my cultures are always squeaky clean, no yeast and no bacteria, perfectly normal vaginal flora all around) so the mystery for me is what on earth is it then?

Sarah, that thought has crossed my mind, too. I have an appt. next week and depending on what we find with my vitamin D level I might bring that up with my doctor as well.

[depressed10]

Lafemelle, have you ever had a DNA (or PCR) test performed by the Gynecologist? I was going and she was testing me (using the gram stain culture) and everything came back negative for me too. So I did some research and took her some other things for them to test my DNA. She checked for Gardnerella, Atopobium Vaginae, and about 7 other things. My test came back positive for Atopobium Vaginae only. I did not have Gardnerella. Flagyl doesn't work for Atopobium Vaginae - Clyndamycin is supposed to work. So when I asked if you were tested for anything else, I should have asked if you have ever had a DNA test to tell what the actual bacterial is. They can only diagnose Atopobium by DNA test...not the usual culture. I was prescribed Cleocin 100 mg for 3 days. I have to wait a month and take another dose 100mg for 3 days again. So I guess I will have to post later if this treatment worked. So please tell your gynocologist to identify what type of bacteria you have. My cultures were also negative until now. I have a really good gyn doctor but she really didn't know anything about this bacteria. Thank God she listed to me and didn't get offended when I brought in the information for her to review. I have also included some information below about Atopobium. If you have already had a DNA test, I apologize for this post. I was tested for vitamin D deficiency and I actually do have a deficiency. I am taking 2000 IU's of vitamin D. I also had my hormones tested and they are fine. She does think that I may have PMDD and was prescribed a antidepressant which I think I need after all this mess (:

FYI:A. vaginae and G. vaginalis were highly sensitive for BV--96% (95% confidence interval [CI], 91%-98%) and 99% (95% CI, 97%-100%), respectively. However, A. vaginalis was more specific for BV (77% [95% CI, 71%-82%]) than was G. vaginalis (35% [95% CI, 29%-42%]). G. vaginalis was detected in 100% and A. vaginae in 75% of women with recurrent BV; higher organism loads were present in women with recurrent BV. A. vaginae was rarely detected without G. vaginalis, and women in whom both organisms were detected had higher rates of recurrent BV (83%) than women infected with G. vaginalis only (38%) (P<.001)

BACKGROUND: Previous studies have indicated that a recently described anaerobic bacterium, Atopobium vaginae is associated with bacterial vaginosis (BV). Thus far the four isolates of this fastidious micro-organism were found to be highly resistant to metronidazole and susceptible for clindamycin, two antibiotics preferred for the treatment of BV.

METHODS: Nine strains of Atopobium vaginae, four strains of Gardnerella vaginalis, two strains of Lactobacillus iners and one strain each of Bifidobacterium breve, B. longum, L. crispatus, L. gasseri and L. jensenii were tested against 15 antimicrobial agents using the Etest.

RESULTS: All nine strains of A. vaginae were highly resistant to nalidixic acid and colistin while being inhibited by low concentrations of clindamycin (range: < 0.016 microg/ml), rifampicin (< 0.002 microg/ml), azithromycin (< 0.016-0.32 microg/ml), penicillin (0.008-0.25 microg/ml), ampicillin (< 0.016-0.94 microg/ml), ciprofloxacin (0.023-0.25 microg/ml) and linezolid (0.016-0.125 microg/ml). We found a variable susceptibility for metronidazole, ranging from 2 to more than 256 microg/ml. The four G. vaginalis strains were also susceptible for clindamycin (< 0.016-0.047 microg/ml) and three strains were susceptible to less than 1 microg/ml of metronidazole. All lactobacilli were resistant to metronidazole (> 256 microg/ml) but susceptible to clindamycin (0.023-0.125 microg/ml).

CONCLUSION: Clindamycin has higher activity against G. vaginalis and A. vaginae than metronidazole, but not all A. vaginae isolates are metronidazole resistant, as seemed to be a straightforward conclusion from previous studies on a more limited number of strains.

[ItsASecret]

So when I asked if you were tested for anything else, I should have asked if you have ever had a DNA test to tell what the actual bacterial is. They can only diagnose Atopobium by DNA test...not the usual culture. I was prescribed Cleocin 100 mg for 3 days. I have to wait a month and take another dose 100mg for 3 days again. So I guess I will have to post later if this treatment worked. So please tell your gynocologist to identify what type of bacteria you have. My cultures were also negative until now. I have a really good gyn doctor but she really didn't know anything about this bacteria.

If a patient is careful in their research then this is a really good approach. Doctors are not microbiologists, they do not know the specific characteristics of a particular type of bacteria...they only know what the lab tech tells them. It is the lab tech that runs the cultures, isolates the bacterium, runs the PCR, does the staining, does the identification, and sends out the results to the doctor who then prescribes the medication that is suited for whatever bacteria that are found. The actual doctor rarely even puts a foot in the lab doors, it is all done by the techs and they are only doing what they are told to by the doctor to begin with so no not all doctors are going to have the slightest clue as to what specific bacteria is causing the real problem. The other thing is that PCR and other cultures often take a lot of time and therefore cost a bit so they are not always used in initial diagnosis. And a rarer species of bacteria are obviously not going to come to mind when your doctor is writing up the initial lab sheet since so many patients prior who present with the same symptoms are positive for the common stains. Letting a GYNE or GP or whoever doctor you may have know that they can run a PCR for A. vaginae is just an added bonus to trying to identify the problem. The only problem from that is running a PCR and finding out that again no positive result is found.

[depressed10]

It's a secret - in response to your post. If my doctor would have just done the research which actually took me about 10 minutes she would have know to look for other things. I have actually had a DNA test done about a month ago and she only checked for 3 things. I knew that couldn't be right which is why I took the information to her. If I was always negative for Gardnerella then it had to be something else. My doctor couldn't ever put her foot in the door of the lab that she uses because it is in New Jersey and she is in Texas. I have insurance and my insurance does pay for DNA test. So does Aetna. The lab apparently only checks for the bacteria that the doctor tells them to look for so this time she just made sure she included a lot more than the 3 she originally sent in. And low and behold that was the right thing to do. Luckily I have a really nice doctor that didn't get offended. I have read where people took things in to their physicians and they were dismissed and called crazy. I am not any sort of professional in any of this nonsense, I just knew that something wasn't right and now I know what it was. And it seems to me that if doctors keep doing these cultures and these women keep coming up negative, maybe common sense would tell them to maybe check into doing something else and look for another type of bacteria and stop dishing out antibiotics every time they don't want to handle the problem. If the DNA test exist and it's available, then give the women the option of having it. They can decide whether it is something they want or not. The women on this site may not be experts at lab work and all that BS but we know that something isn't right and these doctors should try more to help them instead of dismissing them.

[ItsASecret]

If my doctor would have just done the research which actually took me about 10 minutes she would have know to look for other things. I have actually had a DNA test done about a month ago and she only checked for 3 things. I

The complete mass spectrum of microbiology knowledge does not encompass that of a medical doctor. If it is rare they are told that in med school, they are taught to find the things that are most common and to retest when something comes back negative because it is possible to have a negative culture one day and another be positive.

The lab apparently only checks for the bacteria that the doctor tells them to look for so this time she just made sure she included a lot more than the 3 she originally sent in.

That is correct. The lab can only do what the doctor tells them to. A routine blood culture will be a routine blood culture, a routine pap smear will be tested for routine lab work, a routine BV test will be a routine BV culture and so on. Doctors follow their diagnostic protocol, delivered and determined by the government. Finding the rarer strains is a tough task when they are taught that so many other common things can be the culprit. That is not the doctors fault but actually the microbiologists for not being able to find easier ways to find out when the certain rare bacteria will pop up lol.

I just knew that something wasn't right and now I know what it was.

Absolutely, and that is the method to take when things just do not seem to be right and it worked out beautifully in your case. However that is not how things will be for all women. Sometimes they can know the exact bacteria however that particular strain has already become resistant to certain antibiotics which explains reoccurring bouts of infection. Sometimes they can test for all vaginal flora bacteria that microbiologists know of and still nothing ends up having a positive culture. In either case no real solution.