[JustAman]

I must retort....lol. i had no choice whether I was cut or un-cut... but I do tell you this... i don't think I would care either way... sex is sex, intimacy is intimacy, and love is love... so what's the big deal. i had a friend who was un-cut,.. and we talked about it .. we both had our pro's and con's.. SO WHAT,,,... let's get down to the brass tacks... it's a ....... it's going to go "in and out".. if there is not emotional, mental or at least at the minimum and physical connection... then you might as well be masturbating. I think people take things that are too far out of thier control. and let it dictate certain aspects of thier lives, and then use it as an excuse... oh well, your cut/uncut... get over it... please the woman you are with mentaly, emotionaly,.. and that shrink wrapped or left over plastic of a ........you have wont matter to her.. as long as she knows that she is number one in your book.. and her needs take presidence over all others.... OK.. enough Dr. Phil for one night...lol Hope i didn't step on any toes...

[DippityDoo]

Whooooaaaa baby,

I'd like to point out that I doubt it's 'millions of women' only making this decision. Since the prevalance of circumcision seems to be either a religious or culturally determined thing.....I'd like to point out that men have a LOT of input there.

I was young when I had my boy, I didn't know a thing about foreskins and his father was circumsized and wanted him circumsized. As I wasn't an owner of a penis, or any views about circumcision of the time and was naive, that was what was done. Now that I have an uncricumsized boyfriend, and got heard his point of view, I feel dreadful about it.

As for 'staying power' :
I've been with 4 uncircumsized men and 1 circumsized man. 2 of the circumsized men finished very quickly and 2 had staying power.

The uncircumsized man has a lot of staying power, and actually, this is quite frustrating: sometimes he just can't have an orgasm.

As for what it feels like for the woman:
Well, it's absolute rubbish to think that a man, or a baby, should undergo surgery so a woman *might* enjoy sex with him more. We'd yell 'barbarianism' if a man expressed that same notion in regards to women.

Also, I can't say I feel any such 'horrid' thing described above with my bf. I do feel, only in one or two positions, the top of the foreskin sliding up and can't say I'm overly fond of it, but come on...it's no big thing! (uhhhh no pun intended, honest! hehe).

As for cleanliness, I'm lucky, cause my bf showers twice a day so actually, he's always fresh and clean everywhere.

I tend to believe that in most cases, nature knows what he/she/it is doing and best not to muck around with anyone's body by hacking up pieces of it wihtout a good medical reason!

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Thats only because your not seeing our side!

The question remains... Please answer

I will only say LLL, that from previous threads, it wasn't always the Woman making the last decision, sometimes, it was equal in discussion and other times it was left to the Father to make.

I understand why the automatic assumption is " woman" but proof is in previous threads.

And, % would be silly to state, or even contemplate and I also understand guys frustration, but respect is also required, in that..(nothing you said) just in general.

CW

[Livelaughlove]

I will only say LLL, that from previous threads, it wasn't always the Woman making the last decision, sometimes, it was equal in discussion and other times it was left to the Father to make.

NO person should have the right to mutilate anothers body part!

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Anon, this is close to your heart and as such everyone who disagrees with you, will get a tongue lashing as such...of your "beliefs and opinions"...

But, it is people's right to make their own choices, regardless, it doesn't make them narrow minded, it's their own "beliefs and opinions".. And quit with the American thing.

Chandler, I have every right to express myself on an opinion which is obviously important, and ridiculous. If nobody ever expressed their opinion against a majority opinion, then we would still all believe that the earth was flat. Outmoded thinking needs to be destroyed with sense for the human race to progress. I am working for the good of humanity.

I'm not going to get into the discussion but I think anyone with since knows this is not even close to a comparison. Cutting a woman's clit off is basically equivalent to cutting the head of the penis off. I think maybe cutting the clitoral hood off is more equivalent.

Fallen, you are correct, it is not equivilent. What about removing a nipple or two? Or slicing off the labia?

And LLL, I wouldn't say that it's always the woman making the choice, though obviously they seem to play more of the decision making process than I'd like, even if it is the (American) girls going "eeew, what's that flap of skin? I haven't seen that before! It's scary and gross!"

What is an unfortunately the reality is that men who have been circumcised, be they fathers or doctors, are likely to advise for circumcision, simply to make the kid like them. If they say circumcision is a bad idea, they then have to admit that they have been violated, and that their penis is not how it should be - and the penis being something close to men, we do not want to admit that. Therefore, we have doctors and fathers who should know better and examine the evidence, carrying on the sins of the previous generation and the cycle of pain continues.

DippityDoo, I love seeing women with opinions like yours, you help to reestablish my faith in the female gender! Spread your knowledge!


And as a final thinking point - ANY personal preference you have with regards to sex IS NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON FOR RADICAL NON-CONSENSUAL SURGERY, to think it is merely betrays how pathetic your reasoning skills are.

[WildChild]

LLL I'll have to disagree with you too that woman make this choice. My son is circumcised that was absolutely at his father's insistance for religious reasons. I wasn't happy about it but went along with it, I did research and pointed out that there wasn't a valid reason for it and was over ruled quite strongly.

One theory I found regarding this practice - don't know if it's true but read something about it, was that in the ancient military circumcision was sometimes practiced because it made a man less sensitive and better able to commit rape. The news stories we see today tell us rape is still a practice in the effort to demean and control another social group.

This is one more barbaric practice we need to end. I regret not having fought harder in my son's case, although had I done so it's likely his father would have taken him and had it done anyway and that might have been more of a back alley kind of deal and far more dangerous. This is one more way that people try to control each other's sexuality. If you read up on female genital mutilation, they often remove not only the clit but a good part of the labia. Leaving the woman with all her desire and nothing that can feel, then they stitch her virtually closed to make her tighter for her future husband. One can only imagine how delightful that wedding night must be. There is some very unlovely stuff going on in the world.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

LLL I'll have to disagree with you too that woman make this choice. My son is circumcised that was absolutely at his father's insistance for religious reasons. I wasn't happy about it but went along with it, I did research and pointed out that there wasn't a valid reason for it and was over ruled quite strongly.

A point that I should have made, but forgot, was this:

A circumcised man IS NOT IMPARTIAL. He cannot make the decision based on the advantages and disadvantages, because he is heavily biased. This is where I think it is the woman's responsibility to look after the best interests of her child. And it is devastating to see many of these 'protectors' opinions on circumcision being as simple and uneducated as "I've enjoyed sex with a circumcised man, let's do it". For shame....

I don't mean to make women who have circumcised their kids feel bad (fallen, wildchild etc), I simply want to try to educate the future to prevent things like this from happening.

[DippityDoo]

It's my understanding that circumcision is just not done in the UK anymore (as a matter of course, unless determined medically necessary); I'm not sure about Europe in general, but since it's the prevaling thought in the medical community, hopefully that attitude will spread.

[Fallen1]

I don't mean to make women who have circumcised their kids feel bad (fallen, wildchild etc), I simply want to try to educate the future to prevent things like this from happening.

Good memory!

As I stated in the previous thread, I have two sons, both from different marriages and both had it done. Both fathers were the final decision makers in both cases, I did not push either way.

Interesting note - my oldest sons father was not circumcised but he chose to have our son circumcised. My youngest son father is circumcised and he chose to have our son circumcised.

[JustAman]

It is common practice in the US to clip the tip. I personally am glad that my mother decided to have it done to me. I love my penis...looks good....lol. I don't consider in mutalated by any means. I think it looks defined and like a strong structure when it's ready for action. Either way, I don't think I really would have cared. My uncle, when he was in his 30's had to go back and have it done for medical reasons.. and the pain he was in later..OMG. I'm glad it was done when I was too young to remember.