[StillLearnin]

I was going to suggest that with all her partners before you that maybe she has intimacy problems, and can't let herself be intimate with her partner. Thinking that she could be a sex addict, a nymphomaniac, who can't be intimate.

But, since it's only 10 sexual partners in four years, that pattern doesn't really fit the sex addict, afraid of intimacy, profile.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

I want you to know I am listening, and I genuinely appreciate all of your advice. I just feel the need to set the record straight, or clarify details sometimes. I think I acknowledge from the beginning that I played a part in the current situation, but I feel like all of you have sort of skirted past the fact that my wife and I did behave different before we even met, so it doesn't seem likely that I caused all of this with my words I spoke 7 years ago.

I am listening though, and will continue to do so. Much of what you are saying makes sense, and I'm definitely going to take your words and ponder them, and proceed with more understanding of the overall picture here. Please don't interpret my replies as complete disagreement with you. Only on some of the finer points has that occurred.

Okay, then you have all those words to ponder in that regard, so tell us more regarding what you are referring to pertaining to before you met.

Are you saying:

Me: I wanted to wait till marriage, but I did meet someone and well engaged in it.

Her: I was a free spirit and then met you...

See this is what I see of her and what I see of you, based on what you are writing.

In which case, we are harping on what we are, because why has she not been able to be a free spirit through her marriage? What changed? Can it really honestly therefore, go back to what we are all saying? See what I mean?

[WantingToBeWanted]

CW said what I have in mind.

You've got to build that "safe" environment for her. Women are fragile souls who need nurturing like you do. But since she's already closed up as you've said, make an extra effort to be more loving and gentle with her. No past issues to rehash about. Maybe deep in her heart, she also wants to let those memories die their death.

All you can do is to facilitate her towards a more open communication in a more loving way. Find out her love languages. Touch her lovingly, gently more often. Hug her from behind. Show appreciation to the little things she does for you. Say it, tell her "thank you for cooking this wonderful dinner, sweetie". When is the last time you told her "i love you" from the heart? When was the last time you took her out for dinner, held her hand while you both walk?

I actually do a lot of that right now, and have throughout our relationship. As I said, I never bring up the past with her, except when I apologized for my judgmental behavior recently.

When I touch her lovingly, it's often met with a rebuff. She basically seems to equate any touching with sex, as she knows I get turned on easily, so the moment I touch her or even attempt to kiss her lovingly, it's often turned away, because she thinks that if that is allowed it means I want sex that minute, and unplanned spontaneous sex is basically a no no in her mind. Only on rare occasions is that sort of thing welcomed. We have a loving relationship though. There is no true hostility here. We don't really even fight. We disagree, but we never say truly hurtful things to one another. I've never once thrown out a genuine insult at her, and she's never done that to me. By all accounts we have one of the more peaceful relationships you'll ever find.

[caterpillar79]

CW said what I have in mind.

You've got to build that "safe" environment for her. Women are fragile souls who need nurturing like you do. But since she's already closed up as you've said, make an extra effort to be more loving and gentle with her. No past issues to rehash about. Maybe deep in her heart, she also wants to let those memories die their death.

All you can do is to facilitate her towards a more open communication in a more loving way. Find out her love languages. Touch her lovingly, gently more often. Hug her from behind. Show appreciation to the little things she does for you. Say it, tell her "thank you for cooking this wonderful dinner, sweetie". When is the last time you told her "i love you" from the heart? When was the last time you took her out for dinner, held her hand while you both walk?

[WantingToBeWanted]

If you don't want to listen to us, that being that you pose a question and so far, what 6 ladies have actually stated the same reason?

I want you to know I am listening, and I genuinely appreciate all of your advice. I just feel the need to set the record straight, or clarify details sometimes. I think I acknowledge from the beginning that I played a part in the current situation, but I feel like all of you have sort of skirted past the fact that my wife and I did behave different before we even met, so it doesn't seem likely that I caused all of this with my words I spoke 7 years ago.

I am listening though, and will continue to do so. Much of what you are saying makes sense, and I'm definitely going to take your words and ponder them, and proceed with more understanding of the overall picture here. Please don't interpret my replies as complete disagreement with you. Only on some of the finer points has that occurred.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Don't you think that's come from just having sex instead of intimacy over this period of time? All this time?

How do you reach a soul?

What is a soul?

With passion, desire, lust, love...............two souls meet.

It hasn't ever happened, it's sex.

And, nothing happens over night. She may feel numb of never having the true intimacy that a woman craves for, to be touched, bought to orgasm, via foreplay, to touch you, to own it, to give pleasure, pure passion.

How can a woman be passionate, if she has never been passionate with you? And, this stems from that chat 7.5 years ago...

CW

[WantingToBeWanted]

You are still thinking it, you don't have to say it. It will show in your attitude and responses even if you don't realize it.

10 partners in 4 years? pffft. I had roomates in college who had a different one every weekend. Nobody's business but theirs.



Your words. You haven't let go of it at all.

I think I mostly have, but my recent examination has sort of brought it to the surface again. Obviously I can't forget what I know, but before this recent time of examination for me, I truly did not think of her past at all. It did not cross my mind.

But as I've begun to examine our relationship, the thought has come up again, because I feel so undesired by her, and then I remember that there was a time when she seemed to give herself freely to other men. It's just hard to reconcile that when I ponder it for a moment, but like I said, for years it never really crossed my mind. It was in the past, and it still is, but I've just been in my head about all this too much recently, so it's kind of resurfaced for a moment. I'm sure if we continue to work at this, and hopefully enjoy one another more sexually, it will fall into the recesses of my brain once again, without much care.


I attempted to sit her down last night after work, as I was feeling very passionate about getting us on a better course. I sat her down, and looked her in the eyes, and said "I want all of you, and I want to give all of myself to you. I want to live more passionately with you. I've realized that you are all that I truly need in this world."

This was met with a simple "Ok." No, not even an "I love you". Just an "ok". This is what I mean when I say things about her lack of passionate love. Even when I say the most intimate thing to her, the response I get is anything but love, or deep affection in return. It was a blunt acknowledgment, and then a desire to resume her TV watching. The most deep thing I've ever heard from her is "I love you", and even those don't come super easy. They are often the response to me saying it first. Just once I'd love to hear something in return like "You are my husband, and I love you more than anything". It's important to note, my wife isn't exactly a person with a limited dialogue, or unintelligent vocabulary. She's a smart woman, and she speaks easily about things she's interested in, but when it comes to expression emotions or passionately thoughts, they are almost non-existent.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

If you don't want to listen to us, that being that you pose a question and so far, what 6 ladies have actually stated the same reason?

It's all in the up-bringing on your behalf in the way you viewed it back then.

Let's look at it like this:-

She advised you 10 partners, in 4 years, in your mind you have that.

But, it backfired on her, being honest, because in your mind, yes you let it go, but did you?

So, again, through fear, she has maintained that thought of what happened when she told you and she can not let herself go sexually with you, it's not possible, the fear of you thinking back to that time again, stops her.

Now you've posed a question on this Forum and what has happened? Your thinking back again to that time, whether it's to defend or explain further, it's still "thinking back to that time"... this is what she has / is avoiding.

It's almost as if your thinking, that as she had 10 partners, she has to be sexual, why not with you? Now you want that, and you want her to come out, but she won't and then your mind changes it's thought pattern to maybe she's not sexual at all? But this is what I wan't I've matured.

We can't read her mind, but rest assure, nothing the ladies are saying is false, they're/we're women and we've been through this thought pattern before, many a time, even if we were 17 or 22... we've seen it.

I can say this, you can't assume anything.

Those 10 partners, in 4 years, as I said, could have made her feel they were hers and ditched her after a month, or so... and she would have hurt badly over that.

Have you ever considered that?

Have you considered that you treated her right, you married her, you didn't use her? You didn't have sex, she sustained for that until marriage for you... to feel clean and worthy for you. Why? She didn't do anything wrong, she probably made a few judgemental errors of boys who play the cards just to get what they want... She's human.

This is about, what she sacrificed for you, so sacrifice for her and understand that at 22 alot of mistakes are made as we grow and learn but more importantly, it was her body, her mind, her life before you and you can not judge her, you wouldn't have married her if she wasn't beautiful inside and she is obviously.

This is about you letting that garbage go or else you won't have a marriage to work with let alone sex with this woman.

She is a grown woman, a respectful woman, one whom has been faithful for 7 and a half years..

Learn to love her for her... She gave herself to you in marriage, in non sexuality before marriage, and her life to you... Respect her for that and tell her you love her more than words can say. That you love all she has been to you in your marriage and start holding her more, kissing her on the head and repeating this for some time, and re-gain her trust that she can be herself FINALLY... without fear of a thought of the past coming back to haunt her.

For no reason, ... because what we do before marriage is not a concern to the person that we chose to marry, to be faithful to, to be all to... and that is what she needs to hear, know, feel and believe.


CW

[caterpillar79]

These wise ladies said it all.

Also, the way you treat her, your actions, your whole demeanor then and now would largely affect the dynamics of how she would open up to you. I am also speaking from experience.

There are a lot of signals that you could have done inadvertently. Our subconscious does that, and it acts upon what you believe deep down in your heart of hearts. Even if you keep denying it, it will show.

Just like now. You haven't let go of it at all. Open your eyes.

[WildChild]

You are still thinking it, you don't have to say it. It will show in your attitude and responses even if you don't realize it.

10 partners in 4 years? pffft. I had roomates in college who had a different one every weekend. Nobody's business but theirs.

"all those guys in college seemed to get plenty of affection", and that hurts. .

She obtained all those partners in the span of 4 years. Do you really think she was carefully considering each of those encounters? ...It wasn't something I just threw at anyone who was interested.

Your words. You haven't let go of it at all.