[dlanier248]

rosekitten.... You are not in these shoes, I KNOW you don't understand.
1st off I did say that I am NOT the kind of person to do that. When you get married, I have NEVER known someone to put "sex" in thier vows. it should be an understanding that Sex is part of marriage. There are times that sex is not possible for medical reasons, but there are other ways to at least give your partner some kind of satisfaction. SHE is the one whom got mad during one of our conversations and told me to get it somewhere else. I have NOT asked her to have intercourse, since that seems to be what you are saying. Sex includes alot of different things. If you were able to have foreplay and give your partner a release, it would show you care and are willing to help. when you marriage starts and you have a sex life that is 3-5 times a week and have TONS a foreplay and cuddling time, it is really hard when it dies. I know all of our sex lifes slow up the old we get, not a problem but would you be happy with sex twice a year?

Stillness, thank you...

"We took vows in accord with Christian standard for marriage as set forth in the Holy Scriptures (that's almost a direct quote if I remember correctly). Those scriptures do have much to say on sexuality and love within a marriage. That includes not withholding sex and a warning that doing so could lead to infidelity. Non-Christian marriages also typically have an understanding that sexual needs will be met even when it's not as explicitely stated. That's the nature of the institution. Some people's approach is less traditional, but if you expect fidelity, how would you empower your mate to keep it?

I agree that cheating is not justifiable. But while some people are just cheaters, desperation can move a person who would have been loyal to mess up. "

I will say that I am 99.9% sure I would never cheat on my wife... but I am human and have needs.

I will ask if any female can give me direction and understanding of thinning of the walls. Our problem is she will not take hormone meds because of fear of cancer. her Mother and Grand mother both died from breast cancer.
according to her thinning of the walls is causing all her pain during sex. I want her well 1st and formost, then I believe that everything else would come back to normal.

[Claret]

"We took vows in accord with Christian standard for marriage as set forth in the Holy Scriptures (that's almost a direct quote if I remember correctly). Those scriptures do have much to say on sexuality and love within a marriage. That includes not withholding sex and a warning that doing so could lead to infidelity.
Excuse me? I don't know which passage you are referring to. I know the passages about marriage being a sacred institution, the husband cleaving only unto the wife, the wife cleaving only unto the husband. I know the passages about in sickness and in health, and that marriage was instituted for the purpose of procreation but I guess I've missed the one where it says not allowing one partner to have sex with the other partner would lead to infidelity. Hogwash. Your own lack of understanding of her position may lead you to think you [I]need[I] sex, but people don't die or go crazy from not having sex.

according to her thinning of the walls is causing all her pain during sex. I want her well 1st and formost, then I believe that everything else would come back to normal.

Can you elaborate on this? I know of several real and honest medical conditions that will cause pain in that area and not just when engaging in intercourse. Trust me, unless you are the one experiencing this pain, you don't know how painful it is. I know this for fact. Sometimes these conditions are temporary and other conditions are permanent. If you are so insensitive as to still expect sex when your partner gets no satisfaction from the act only pain, or gets no satisfaction from just you getting your rocks off, then I feel very sorry for both her and for you. She may never get well to quote your words. She may be able to live with what she has - and that would be a good thing for her.

In sickness and in health -- would you, if married to an individual that ended up being a quadrapalegic, still expect that person to satisy your sexual desires just because you are married?

You need to talk with her and her Doctor. Find out exactly what her condition is prior to making her the ogre in this marriage. Find out and understand. There are non-hormonal creams and plant steroids that can help with the walls of the vagina thinning due to menopausal conditions. This could be as easy to fix as inserting a pill called Vagifem which lubricates the lining of the vagina and serves to increase the thickness of the walls of the vagina.

But, whatever you don't please don't, don't blame her for your infidelity if and when it happens.

[ItsASecret]

I will ask if any female can give me direction and understanding of thinning of the walls. Our problem is she will not take hormone meds because of fear of cancer. her Mother and Grand mother both died from breast cancer.
according to her thinning of the walls is causing all her pain during sex. I want her well 1st and formost, then I believe that everything else would come back to normal.

If she is scared of cancer and coupling that with a family history of cancer you could try to tell her that just because it has happened in the family does not mean she will get it too. From what you say it sounds like it would be difficult to sit down with her and explain to her that she does not have cancer now and it does not mean that helping her body with ways the doctor offered is going to result in cancer. I am not sure what to do if she is thoroughly convinced that cancer is on the way if she opts for a standard treatment that doctors offer. Thinning of the walls is basically due to lowered estrogen levels, if she is entering or is already in menopause then estrogen levels will already be decreasing and hence adding to the problem. To minimize the thinning and help step away from the pain she will need to increase her estrogen levels. However the other thing you can do is offer, if you have not already, to use sex lubricants during sex as a way to help prevent the dryness and hence the sensitive walls and blood. Other than the estrogen creams or insertions methods the only option would be to load up on foods that have estrogen-like substances in them, these are called phytoestrogens key word is "like"....it is not actual estrogen but it has many similarities. As an option to avoid the prescriptions the doctors gave she can start eating foods like soy products, clover, flax seeds, oats, barley, apples, carrots, and fennel. Keep in mind that she should get the okay from her doctor to be eating more foods with higher phytoestrogens. As well keep aware that the amount of phytoestrogens is minimal in foods so it would take a lot of food over a long period of time to possibly see results if anything were to happen in the first place. In addition the internet will be littered with products claiming they have the best of the best supplements out there I would NOT at all advise taking phytoestrogen supplements unless her doctor gives the okay as it can cause issues with breast cancer especially if there is a history of it in the family. But the food method is basically your only other option.

[dlanier248]

love some of the reactions here....

1 Corinthians 7
New International Version (NIV)

Concerning Married Life

"7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. "

I want my wife well 1st off.... she is extremely hard headed when it comes time to talking to her about her health and our sex life. She is right and everyone else is wrong in her eyes.

Since some are just totally focused sexually intercourse, as I have said before, There are many ways to just show someone affection without intercourse. If my wife was to become a quadrapalegic, that is a totally different situation than "I dont want to, it hurts". I have asked her to see a Dr and get any help she may need.

For those that have been BLESSED with a marraige that has plenty of sex for them and do not understand, please don't BLAST the married people that are here to vent or looking for answers, help or just plain understanding that they are not the only married people that have this issue and there might be some things here to point me or her to a direction to help our marriage.

I honestly hope that NO ONE has to go through this, it is very damaging to a marriage.

Thank you to all input..

[Stillness]

[B]I know the passages about in sickness and in health, and that marriage was instituted for the purpose of procreation but I guess I've missed the one where it says not allowing one partner to have sex with the other partner would lead to infidelity. Hogwash.

You quoted dlanier248 quoting me, so I don't know if you think what I said is hogwash or him, but the Bible says this:

"Because of prevalence of fornication, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband. The wife does not exercise authority over her own body, but her husband does; likewise, also, the husband does not exercise authority over his own body, but his wife does. Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that you may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation." - 1 Corinthians 7:2-5

But Bible or no, this is the second time this issue has come up on these boards and I'm surprised at the difference in opinion along gender lines. It seems that the men and women that I've encountered in my life understand that a cheater is going to cheat, but you need to take care of your mate sexually so you don't give them a reason to. And if anything, it seems to be women that are more acutely aware of this because of the men-are-dogs stereotype. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Girl, you better take care of your man," or something like that. It's such common knowledge that the "...or someone else will" doesn't even need to be spoken. Maybe I just haven't heard the competing concept that is apparently held by quite a few people. It's no wonder divorce is so prevalent. Not everybody is made of the same stuff as dlanier248 and rcoreyus.

What I think is hogwash is minimizing someone else's pain. A lot of people suffer and a lot of relationships are destroyed over this issue. I've had people close to me struggle and divorce because of it. I've experienced great frustration myself just because of the difference in libido and my wife never turns me down. I can't imagine what somebody who lives with daily rejection goes through. And even from a physical perspective, study after study has shown that people who have sex are healthier and live longer. So your comment about it not killing you or making you crazy is not entirely accurate.

[Stillness]

love some of the reactions here....

1 Corinthians 7
New International Version (NIV)

You beat me!

On topic (sorry for derailing) sp346: I also play video games, lift weights, ride my bike, stay busy with my congregation, reading, work or anything else to take my mind off of things. Believe me, I've been up many a night at 3:00am playing video games or reading about distant galaxies to escape what ain't happenin' in this one.

[Claret]

"Because of prevalence of fornication, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife her due; but let the wife also do likewise to her husband. The wife does not exercise authority over her own body, but her husband does; likewise, also, the husband does not exercise authority over his own body, but his wife does. Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time, that you may devote time to prayer and may come together again, that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-regulation." - 1 Corinthians 7:2-5

This is a biblical reference it is not written into any marriage ceremony of modern day that I am aware of. That is why I say hogwash. There has been so much changed over the eons with the books of common prayer and with the rights of women being entrenched in both the church and of governments. I think what you are doing is taking these passages too literally to be pertinent in todays world, and you certainly are taking my comments too literally as well.

By the way I believe the passage was meant to discourage sex outside of marriage and to have couples enter into the freedoms of marriage without worrying about the sin of fornication.

I am responding to two posts here so please bear with me.

Pain is pain, who is he to determine how much or how often his wife should suffer any pain. I think it barbaric of him to insist especially since afterwards she bleeds and is sore. There are medical conditions that make having sexual intercourse unbearable. He needs to be sympathetic to her plight. This isn't all about him.

[Stillness]

This is a biblical reference it is not written into any marriage ceremony of modern day that I am aware of...I think what you are doing is taking these passages too literally to be pertinent in todays world

Claret, you aren't reading what has been written. I just said that the vows I took include this passage as they are part of the Christian Scriptures. Many of the weddings I go to do. That doesn't mean you have to like the scripture or apply it yourself, but to say it's not pertinent to today is fallacious since many people who are alive today adhere to (or claim to) Christian Law in regards to marriage and life in general. And you can take it however you please, but the scripture says what it says. What it says works in June of 2012. I live it.

Also, dlanier has said repeatedly that he does not want to hurt his wife and that he is sympathetic. Why are you making him out to be barbaric? He's not.

[Claret]

In no way do I mean to put down any theory or religion. I just have never seen nor heard of this as being in a marriage ceremony and I certainly would never have had it included in mine. Different churches of course will have different interpretation of passages in the bible. I am of the opinion that that particular passage was not meant to keep a spouse from straying but rather to cleave a couple together in all that a marriage entails without fear of the sin of fornication.

I have been married a long time, almost 30 years actually. My husband and I have been unable to have sex for some time now. Does this mean I should force him into pleasuring me and having him receive no pleasure at all from the act? Is this forcing me to go out and seek a person to have an affair with? No. My wedding vows were richer/poorer, sickness/health not sex/no sex.

I married a man with a brain and feelings and intelligence. I didn't marry a penis.

[rcoreyus]

I think that people are seeing very different situations in this discussion.

I don't think anyone should feel pressured to provide sex whenever their partner wants it. That though is different from not being willing to have sex with your partner for months at a time. If there is a medical reason not to engage in some particular sex acts, that is fine, but I think that refusing all intimacy, and not expecting your partner to find it somewhere else is unreasonable.

There is of course a tendency to view these discussions through our own experiences. In my case there were no medical issues. I did everything I could for my wife in and out of bed, she just didn't feel like having sex (or any other form of intimacy). She would rather, read, or watch TV, or use the web. On average we would be intimate less than once a month, often going several months. I still don't know what changed a few months ago, but now we hvae a very active and very happy (for both of us) sex life.

I think that sex is a very important part of a relationship, and can't imagine why anyone would deny their partner if things are otherwise happy. If there are medical issues, then do what you can do - there are lots of nice things you can do for someone it bed if there are physical limitations. It seems to me that you should do this not because you "owe" it to them but because giving pleasure to the person you love is its own reward