[anonymouswhitefemale]

Maybe I shouldn't say this because I don't want to come across as though I'm trying to attack you, but it seems to me that you don't even want to see it from any point of view but your own either.

I agree with you here, actually. I know I am only standing up for my gender here, probably because all I read here is quite the opposite. You have enough female opinions soothing your insecurities and dissing your partners that I fight my corner. This probaby isn't the best way to go about it, but hey.

As I stated in another thread, rather than trying to help these ladies understand and be more at ease with it you tend to take a somewhat hostile approach with your "Blah blah" and "get over it's". Sometimes we just need someone to talk to and a little caring and understanding goes a long way.

Male's opinions on this site seem to be often ignored anyway, with answers such as "not %100 of males are like this" etc responses, so I thought I'd push it a bit harder. You can all believe that every man on this forum is an exception to life or you can choose to accept the reality in which you live. I'm willing to promise you that most of my opinions are shared by over 90% of males. Good luck with every woman finding one of those 10%.

What I do have a problem understanding is someone who has a s/o deliberately choosing to fantasize about other women.

And what is deliberate? In the heat of isolated sexual passion your mind flicks to whatever the most stimulating thing you can think of is, you don't think "I want to hurt my gf, so I'm going to think of someone else doing something she wouldn't be willing to do". You can only train your mind if you dedicate your whole life to it, and I'll be even hardcore buddahs think some nasty ****.


I wonder if you'll ever understand that you need too much. You want an unrealistic amount from your men, you say their perfect except one thing (something that is true to all males), then you go on about what a problem it is. You have problems too, everyone does! The world is not full of 100% perfect husband material. Men are not 100% what women want, they just have a better percentage than a woman or a monkey. If life's taught me one thing it's to take what you're given.

[Fallen1]

I agree with you here, actually. I know I am only standing up for my gender here, probably because all I read here is quite the opposite. You have enough female opinions soothing your insecurities and dissing your partners that I fight my corner. This probaby isn't the best way to go about it, but hey.

I don't remember ever stating I had insecurities. And I think that your statement that all women that have a problem with the porn issue is strictly because of insecurities is false.

[ChelseaRenee]

I don't remember ever stating I had insecurities. And I think that your statement that all women that have a problem with the porn issue is strictly because of insecurities is false.

I agree. It seems a lot of male opinions here seem to think that if our opinions aren't cohesive with theirs, and it proves to be an inconvenience to them (that is, if the woman harboring negative feelings towards porn is their spouse), that it's all due to insecurities. I know plenty of women who dislike it simply on the basis that they find it degrading to woman. Does that mean they're insecure? Absolutely not, and in many cases, they're correct about the degradation of women in porn. Does the fact that they don't like it because they're worried it'll take away possible sexual encounters with THEM mean they're insecure? Absolutely no, it means they want sex and realize that porn can introduce that problem (lack of sex) into a relationship.

To say someone's distaste for porn is always (or even most of the time) involved with insecurities is silly.

[libertas]

To say someone's distaste for porn is always (or even most of the time) involved with insecurities is silly.

I agree ... and btw I am a man.

Insecurity can rear it's ugly head in many ways; however, it can't honestly be considered the default reasoning (i.e. excuse) for every problem women have with men.

On the same token, reasoning that all men are chauvinistic inconsiderate pigs would be equally flawed reasoning to explain their every action.

I will not lie and say that I don't/haven't watched porn ... but I don't for a second think that if such practice is hurtful to my relationship that it's automatically the woman's problem and she should just accept it and move on. Yes, there are cases where some women tend to over-react to it (imo), but there are also cases where men are truly being selfish in their own right and causing unjustified emotional pain to their s/o.

Every relationship is different, as is each individual .. it is, therefor, naive and shortsighted to believe that blame can be placed on either side without first taking each problem for what it is ... unique.

Generalizations for men and women are grossly unfair and do nothing but cause problems imo.

The polarization on the subjects of sex isn't doing much for deep thought or worthy of any serious consideration, we'd all be better off if these things were approached with an open mind and less-judgmental tongue.

[ChelseaRenee]

I agree ... and btw I am a man.

Insecurity can rear it's ugly head in many ways; however, it can't honestly be considered the default reasoning (i.e. excuse) for every problem women have with men.

On the same token, reasoning that all men are chauvinistic inconsiderate pigs would be equally flawed reasoning to explain their every action.

I will not lie and say that I don't/haven't watched porn ... but I don't for a second think that if such practice is hurtful to my relationship that it's automatically the woman's problem and she should just accept it and move on. Yes, there are cases where some women tend to over-react to it (imo), but there are also cases where men are truly being selfish in their own right and causing unjustified emotional pain to their s/o.

Every relationship is different, as is each individual .. it is, therefor, naive and shortsighted to believe that blame can be placed on either side without first taking each problem for what it is ... unique.

Generalizations for men and women are grossly unfair and do nothing but cause problems imo.

The polarization on the subjects of sex isn't doing much for deep thought or worthy of any serious consideration, we'd all be better off if these things were approached with an open mind and less-judgmental tongue.

I think I just saw pigs fly. Yes, I understand men may like porn, but if it hurts their spouse, it should (in MOST cases) be stopped. Relationships are about love and happiness, but to achieve that ultimate goal, sacrifices must be made on both sides. You don't usually hear women shouting from the rooftops about how men are robbing them of their feminine essence when their husbands ask them to curtail their spending on useless, frivolous things. But when a woman tries to take away a man's porn (a useless, frivolous thing- meaning completely unnecessary) well, LOOK OUT! We're accused of trying to emasculate our men. Oh, Lord.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

I don't remember ever stating I had insecurities. And I think that your statement that all women that have a problem with the porn issue is strictly because of insecurities is false.

OK, I didn't mean to say that this is the entirety of the issue, and obviously anything I say allows for exceptions, as only an idiot generalizes without even admitting the possibility of exceptions. It's similar to telling someone on a forum that what they say is their opinion.... Well DUH! However, from what I've read in most of the threads here recently, of which there's been plenty, the main concern seems to be that the woman is worried that the man doesn't love her because he looks at other women, and this of course is insecurity, as many of the females here have also pointed out.

As for whether porn is degrading is almost an entirely seperate discussion, one which I opened but had limited responses. For what it's worth though, currently 100% of the female response was that it is not degrading .

Also, as far as degradation goes, the person stacking the shelves at your local supermarket isn't exactly being treated respectfully, and has had their self esteem pretty comprehensivly shattered.

Moving on to the problem with porn because it CAN diminish a sex life. Well, it can also spice it up. It can also be a completely healthy outlet for a man who has a stronger sex drive than their partner (all too common), without which perhaps the woman would be on her own while he was looking for a more sexual partner. I'm sure you'd complain about that louder .

I will not lie and say that I don't/haven't watched porn ... but I don't for a second think that if such practice is hurtful to my relationship that it's automatically the woman's problem and she should just accept it and move on. Yes, there are cases where some women tend to over-react to it (imo), but there are also cases where men are truly being selfish in their own right and causing unjustified emotional pain to their s/o.

Every relationship is different, as is each individual .. it is, therefor, naive and shortsighted to believe that blame can be placed on either side without first taking each problem for what it is ... unique.

Generalizations for men and women are grossly unfair and do nothing but cause problems imo.

The polarization on the subjects of sex isn't doing much for deep thought or worthy of any serious consideration, we'd all be better off if these things were approached with an open mind and less-judgmental tongue.

I will agree with all of this, however, reading most of what is written on here about womens' partners' porn, this is the case. They detail what wonderful guys they are, always willing for sex, but they just don't like it. Also, practically everything said when the details of a case aren't fully known are based on generalizations, and without generalizations we'd probably not even be able to survive. The brain needs to fill in the blanks for what it doesn't know. That's why I don't mind that practically everything said about men here is generalizations .

I think I just saw pigs fly. Yes, I understand men may like porn, but if it hurts their spouse, it should (in MOST cases) be stopped. Relationships are about love and happiness, but to achieve that ultimate goal, sacrifices must be made on both sides. You don't usually hear women shouting from the rooftops about how men are robbing them of their feminine essence when their husbands ask them to curtail their spending on useless, frivolous things. But when a woman tries to take away a man's porn (a useless, frivolous thing- meaning completely unnecessary) well, LOOK OUT! We're accused of trying to emasculate our men. Oh, Lord.

About shopping: As long as it's their money what right do we have to complain?

Also, if it's sacrifice on both sides, where's the sacrifice on each others' part to allow their partner to be themself? But of course, we all like to change our partners, mould them into what we want them to be.

I still don't know if you're arguing about porn or masturbation.

[SaraSmile]

I agree. It seems a lot of male opinions here seem to think that if our opinions aren't cohesive with theirs, and it proves to be an inconvenience to them (that is, if the woman harboring negative feelings towards porn is their spouse), that it's all due to insecurities. I know plenty of women who dislike it simply on the basis that they find it degrading to woman. Does that mean they're insecure? Absolutely not, and in many cases, they're correct about the degradation of women in porn. Does the fact that they don't like it because they're worried it'll take away possible sexual encounters with THEM mean they're insecure? Absolutely no, it means they want sex and realize that porn can introduce that problem (lack of sex) into a relationship.

To say someone's distaste for porn is always (or even most of the time) involved with insecurities is silly.

Just to clarify- I am probably the one (woman) who probably did mention my own insecurity, but that is because, although I actually like porn, I don't like him watching it alone very much (to masturbate) and am jealous of most any real-time (in our daily life) woman he may think is very attractive. I do say I have some insecuritues. It is *not* because I don't like porn, because that is not the case.

[SaraSmile]

.....The polarization on the subjects of sex isn't doing much for deep thought or worthy of any serious consideration, we'd all be better off if these things were approached with an open mind and less-judgmental tongue.

I agree. I don't feel I have been judgemental at all. I have not felt angry. I do feel disappointed thinking of some male responses (because I am a woman and have a different view of how things should be sometimes), but it isn't anything personal since I don't know anyone here. There are differences between the sexes and our thinking....and, besides, I like to read different opinions and get to the meat of what each person thinks is the truth or their theory. Some people are very helpful!

[SaraSmile]

I cannot speak for all men but I do speak for myself. I enjoy seeing attractive women: anywhere, anytime, anyplace. The less clothes the better. It would be pretty hard to avoid seeing scantily women - on billboards, in magazines (look at all the partial nudity in women's magazine!)

Having said all that, I am happily married and would never even consider cheating on my wife. I do not dwell on fantasies of other women, it is more just fleeting thoughts that come up (and quickly subside) when I see an attractive lady (in picture or in real life). I do my best to conceal this - never would my wife ever realize that I even noticed. And to my knowledge, I have never brought these fleeting fantasies into our bedroom.

My wife knows I occasionally look at (code for maturbate with) porn on computer. She is fine with that because it helps to balance our sex drives (mine is much higher). For example she would never have interest in a forum like this - she rarely things of sex.

Thanks for your input. I think your take is about the closest to my SO's habits. Sounds pretty close. I am trying to deal better. I really don't think he fantasizes about other women in any serious way or to masturbate...that is what he tells me....or not very much or often, if he does. He thinks of bodies without looking at a face really....like watching porno.

[rcoreyus]

My thoughts on this, and I hope I can explain it so it is makes sense -

What I do have a problem understanding is someone who has a s/o deliberately choosing to fantasize about other women. What I mean is I know when a guy sees an attractive female that his thoughts will most likely stray, it will happen, I understand that you cannot control what pops in your head. But when that man sets out with the intention to fantasize about other women ..... to me that is disrespectful to his s/o.

Did that make any sense?

Yes it makes sense (as do pretty much all the things you post)- but I still don't agree with your conclusions. I think the core of the problem is whether thoughts (of any sort) are absolutely private, or something your partner can / should be aware of and / or threatened by.

As a side question - you mention that fantasizing about another woman is disrespectfull of your SO. Is it disrespectful to the other woman? Would you be offended if you discovered that some man, not your SO, fantasized about you?

I'd really like to find a way to resolve this sort of thing. I think it is at the root of many arguments, including, but limited to the infinite porn arguements.

Sometimes I have thought that mind reading would be a great benefit to relationships - but maybe it would be a disaster. I wonder if inapproprate thoughts are much more common in men than in women? I wonder how to tell?