[Obelisk]

Obelisk, you are fixated on "size" to the point where I would think you may need some professional assistance to get your mind off of a one or two inch difference in penis sizes. In my opinion your obsession with this is not healthy and you would well be served by getting help. I am saying this with all the kindness that I can. It's not healthy. Please consider getting professional help with this. It seems to be driving your days and your mind. You need to be able to focus on other aspects of relationships and yourself.

Every other small guy should join me then. They all feel the same. I'm just more vocal about it and aren't willing to give up like they do. LilahX was kind enough to provide actual stats. I just want to know in more detail.

[Claret]

But, who are you trying to convince here and what are you trying to convince them of? It makes no sense to continue on and on and on, when you're not getting the response you think you should get. Why can you not just accept the facts as they are and go on with your life. It's like it's interrogation techniques here where if you keep at it you may get a response that suits your purpose. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person really agrees with you only that they have been brow beaten into submission. It still doesn't make it right and may or may not be an honest reply.

[Obelisk]

But, who are you trying to convince here and what are you trying to convince them of? It makes no sense to continue on and on and on, when you're not getting the response you think you should get. Why can you not just accept the facts as they are and go on with your life. It's like it's interrogation techniques here where if you keep at it you may get a response that suits your purpose. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person really agrees with you only that they have been brow beaten into submission. It still doesn't make it right and may or may not be an honest reply.

I didn't ask her what she preferred. She already said she preferred the average sizes. I asked her, based on the stats she is providing, to provide a bit more detail on what she considers to be the top 5% and the bottom 20%.

As brow beating, well I haven't actually got a response to my actual question in the other threads. At least not concrete ones. No matter what I ask, the answer is always "It doesn't matter, we love the man not his size". Yes I do think that answer is beating around the bush to not directly answer what I am in fact asking.

Keep in mind that I see penis size as part of "looks" and I don't believe women that say looks don't matter because looks is always what gets a woman to have interest in a guy first. This is based on what you believe you are worth looks wise as well. An overweight woman is likely to settle for an overweight man simply because that's the most she could get. I'm not saying that to be mean to anymore. I can tell you the interest women have had for me increases drastically when I am 10% bf than when I have been 30% bf.

Those are facts based on my own experiences. Now you could argue that all I have bumped into is "shallow" women. To me everyone is shallow at a primal level. Some people just learn to suppress that to find someone that is better compatible with them.

Edit: Just a quick comment. All the women I have met and have dated, every single one of them was about what I could offer them. Could I offer them kids? a stable income? Did I look "hot" enough for them? Did I take them out to be wined and dined? How much did I spend?

This "love" thing women keep talking about is an unknown abstract concept to me. Maybe I've been extremely unlucky to never find a woman that just wanted to take a chance and "love" me without a whole truckload of offerings on the table.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Age.

For the most part, you are portraying someone that you are not. By, going to the gym and giving yourself a make-over, consequently who do you think you are going to attract?

One would be the weak, in-secure to know they have you OMG.. Boosts them.
Two would be the materialistic - she knows of your work, and then you are eye candy to her girlfriends.

If you would love yourself, be yourself, show your true self, the only women you would attract is the like minded.

[Obelisk]

One would be the weak, in-secure to know they have you OMG.. Boosts them.
Two would be the materialistic - she knows of your work, and then you are eye candy to her girlfriends.

Describes my past relationships to a tee hah hah

For the most part, you are portraying someone that you are not. By, going to the gym and giving yourself a make-over, consequently who do you think you are going to attract?

I know I was fat until about 22 when I first stepped into a gym. Before then, I could have been a potted plant in the corner of a room to women. I remember first I lost about 30lbs of fat, which got me to "skinny" level. Women I dated would say "you're perfect like that, don't get any bigger" This was at a skinny 14" arm size.

A few years afterwards, when my arms were 18", I didn't even have to try to get women to look. If I put on a tight shirt, ban, tons of stares. So what happened to "don't get any bigger?"

What's funny is I got into working out not to attract women, but to become strong and not be bullied around as easily by anyone. Now into my 30's, I find the whole thing, in retrospect was kind of silly. Most bullying happens in high school, and once you're in the workforce not as often.

Even so, in bodybuilding we have what's called "bulking phases" and "cutting phases". Basically for 6 months you eat like crazy and work out really hard. Your body gets tons of muscle but a ton of fat. The "cutting phase" is getting rid of the fat and keeping as much muscle as you have.

People at work would start commenting "Wow Obelisk, you're getting fat man", and it really bothered me because why do they care? Why don't they bother the other, really obese people at work? Just because I'm a simple charactered guy I'm an easy target. Then when I get leaner again these same people are like "what happened to you man? you're losing the weight?"

If you would love yourself, be yourself, show your true self, the only women you would attract is the like minded.

I know in some deep end level you are right about this. I don't know how I can get to that stage. How can you love yourself when you feel society hates you unless you look and act a certain way?

And where could I find these mysterious women that would love me for what I am and not what I have? I'm all ears

[Stillness]

They all feel the same.

False. You're extreme. You're obsessed. You've got penis threads all over the place and even threads that are unrelated you somehow force penis size into them. That's not normal. Don't read this harshly, because I'm writing this with love.

If it was something like health, employment, or even your body, it would still be obsessive. But those would be more understandable. We'd say, "Yeah, he's kind of extreme, but health is important. You do need a job to make a living. And women do like muscles." But you're obsessing over what we call in my field a "1% question." That means that vast majority of the time it won't be an issue because most people don't care. (And a pretty substantial amount of people who do care a little have been telling you that average is slightly preferable to large). So instead of even wasting the energy and time addressing it the answer you get when you ask a 1% question is "next question." ESPECIALLY when you keep asking it over and over and over because the answer is not fitting your worldview. It doesn't have 0% significance. But it's trivial, minutia, trifling. Time is better spent elsewhere.

The reason this is dragging is because you simply will not accept the truth. Maybe because you're going to do what you want to do anyway and you'd just like to feel justified? I don't know. But small and average men do not ALL feel like you. Quite a few of us have told you that.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

So what happened to "don't get any bigger?"

She didn't want any more women to look at you

I find the whole thing, in retrospect was kind of silly. Most bullying happens in high school, and once you're in the workforce not as often.

Once you don't care what other people think, never....

"Wow Obelisk, you're getting fat man",
"what happened to you man? you're losing the weight?"

You don't question this, you already in your heart know. Jealousy, people will always put people down through envy.

They knew what you were doing, ie) gym... Didn't want you to reach your goal. By reaching your goal, it also means you can reach another goal and therefore, bypass their job, go higher.. OR, have all the girls at work stare at you...

How can you love yourself when you feel society hates you unless you look and act a certain way?

You understand Science, understand phsycology .. You be yourself, and you look at those that make comments and basically understand, they are who they are, there must be an in-security or anger inside of them to make comments or expect you to be like them and you smile in that knowing.

Until you can do that, you don't own yourself, rather others own you.

And where could I find these mysterious women that would love me for what I am and not what I have? I'm all ears

My first boyfriend certainly I was attracted to him. But, he owned a Corvette. Nice huh. I was 16 going on 17. He kept that car from me for 4 months. His aim and goal was to ensure that I liked him for him and therefore, fell in love with him for him. Then he bought the car out... I love old cars always have but his method was intelligent.

You don't go into full details, you show you are secure by stating " I have a secure job, been in it for x y z years, love it". And change the subject.. It takes a few dates for someone to start to gain emotional feelings. If you disclose everything at the beginning and they start to go with you, you have to question it... If you don't and they stay with you, then it makes perfect sense that they actually like you.

[Obelisk]

If it was something like health, employment, or even your body, it would still be obsessive. But those would be more understandable. We'd say, "Yeah, he's kind of extreme, but health is important. You do need a job to make a living. And women do like muscles." But you're obsessing over what we call in my field a "1% question

I am obsessed with anything I do my friend. With that said, yes I've probably went overboard with the penis threads (keeping in mind I didn't start them but I guess I fueled the fire). So yeah I will ease up on it. I'm not as obsessed as I was before, that's for sure. Simply because: A. I now know what to look for physically in a woman that is a good sign that my size won't feel small to her, and B. Well, I'm making gains surprisingly. I don't care about being the biggest. I just don't want to be the smallest. I want to be the good guy who also feels good physically to my woman. I don't want her to feel like she's missing out there because I can't give her that aspect particularly if she's had bigger than me and enjoyed it. I guess that is obsessive, but you're talking to a guy that checks if is wallet is still in his pocket every 10 minutes of the day (saved me you have no idea how many times), and other things I won't go into.

So yeah I'll ease up on the whole thing. I'd still like to know LilahX's take on what she felt was 5% and 20% and what was average. So LilahX if you're still lurking around, I'd love to hear this.

She didn't want any more women to look at you

You know that reminds me of a funny story. I had an elliptical machine that I was getting rid off, and I sold it to someone, so delivery was part of the deal. I met the guy, and he was easily 300lbs. So whatever, it's all cool, I bring the machine into his living room. His wife is there. She's not really that much of a looker herself, but what can you do?

Anyway, I show the guy how the machine works and give him some ideas on how to lose the weight. The wife goes "no don't do that! I don't want him to get too skinny, other women are going to start checking him out!"

Anyway I had to hold my smile for after I left.

Once you don't care what other people think, never....

I bumped into one of the people who used to harass me a while back. He looked huge in high school and I was terrified to bump into him. This time I couldn't believe how small he looked compared to me. He didn't even recognize me. That's how stupid those idiots are. They have no idea how much they hurt someone, and then it's like nothing.

I tell ya I had to hold back not to pummel this guy into the floor (it was at a McDonald's). But I knew it would be pointless. All he would see is some stranger he doesn't know cracking him in the face for no reason. Why? No point. I was happy to know that the bogey man had no teeth

You understand Science, understand phsycology .. You be yourself, and you look at those that make comments and basically understand, they are who they are, there must be an in-security or anger inside of them to make comments or expect you to be like them and you smile in that knowing.

Well I'm not an expert in these things, but I do believe knowledge is power, and knowledge defeats fear. This is why I seek knowledge. I'm insecure about my height. I know that as long as I go for shorter women, they won't mind as much. Size is relative. To a 5'1 woman, 5'6 and 6'2 will look equally tall. So I take comfort in that knowledge. I now take comfort in knowing that as a general rule, smaller women are likely to find my penis size just right for me. I take comfort in that. It's cold hard facts.

Emotions are an entire different animal. Entirely different. You can fall in love with anyone, and practically accept any flaws in the other person if there is something that they do or are that fills whatever emotional need you have. A girl who insists that her man be much taller might fall for a guy really shorter than her if he triggered some fulfillment of an underlying emotional need.

I do understand this, but because it's such a relative concept, it doesn't answer the questions I have.

So it's not that I'm ignoring your answers ladies (and I do apologize if you have felt that), it's just that to me, I need more facts. When I get facts, I'm happy.

It takes a few dates for someone to start to gain emotional feelings.

Thank you for confirming what I've been saying all along. Feelings are just things that you will have for the person if they seem like they could fill that emotional space. It does take a few dates to know that.

If you disclose everything at the beginning and they start to go with you, you have to question it...

I've never fully disclosed everything like an inventory catalog

My first dates with women I was working minimum wage at some dead end place. First girl I dated we probably went out like 5 times before I brought up the kids issue. Afterwards I was bringing it up quicker and quicker. It sucked to keep on getting slammed for it after a few dates. The last few I brought it up pretty much the first date (sooo....how do you feel about kids?). First girl I was physical with I didn't even bother. Honestly I was in a point in my life that I just wanted to get layed. Girl was not only princessy, but a nut case also. I miss her but am glad I cut things before I started losing my self respect. Current girl I didn't say a word until like the 10th time we went out (I was physical with her like 3rd date, she jumped on me, I wasn't expecting it lol). So I had to bring it up because that's what I need to find. And that's where we are now.

So enough of my life story. I don't think I've been this detailed with anyone about my life before. My own parents would be shocked to find these thing they didn't know about me

[Stillness]

I am obsessed with anything I do my friend.

Knowing is half the battle. Sometimes I could probably stand to be a little more obsessed about certain things.

I do think there is some interesting discussion and information in some of these threads. Some of it has been brought up many times before on these boards, but there are some new perspectives thanks to you.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

And that's your core problem

See you saw the guy that bullied you and cracked up laughing, look at you verses him.

I saw the "tough" girls that ignored me as other cool girls were around and when they saw me at 18, they jumped all over me to be my friend.. Confidence is your friend.

Firstly, you need to control your OCD. Which leads you to other areas of obsession that's for you to work out and I think you will.

Secondly, you need to understand. Children who bully usually have a controlling Father or Mother that put them down left right and centre. Those kids usually end up in jail, for crimes as they feel worthless.

Where are you?

Where are they?

See where I say you must forgive and realise they are who they are, they did what they did through problems in their own life but YOU have succeeded in yours and must understand they were kids with their own problems it was never about you.

Height? BAHAHAHAHA.

My ex-husband was shorter. You still don't get it