[Obelisk]

Now we're getting somewhere

Thanks so far ladies (and gentlemen) for your input so far. A lot of my fears have indeed been eased in regards to this. I still wish I was a bit bigger (and will keep working on it) but I don't feel tiny anymore, and do have my confidence somewhat to not be afraid about what a woman would think/feel about my size.

Lizzard, yes your husband is huge lol. Honestly I'd be happy with your previous dude's size, but even what I have now will be big for smaller women, so if I at some point in the future I need to find someone I kind of know what to look for.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

Maybe you're one of these women who gets nothing from being "bottomed out"? Maybe really large does hurt, and you're glad to get smaller again that actually feels good with no pain?

I think average is perfect, they can still hit the wrong spot and hurt, it's about the lover and emotions as to how we react in my opinion.

I believe he may have only been 3 something And, I'm being serious.

I would say religion, more that science is what people use to hide from the unknown. Not to say that I am not religious myself. I am. I just had to balance my beliefs with what science is showing me, and to come to some type of understanding to balance the two things

Spiritualism is not religion. They are two separate issues.. Yes, science gives you antibiotics but then, natural cures from herbs can also do the same.. The point of spiritualism is to be open minded about things, be passionate, sensual touch and feel, understanding of a situation, person, reading right into something instead of finding a single fact (that supposedly is a fact) based on science.

You women tend to be erratic sometimes

Off course Don't ever expect to fully understand us ...

It's still something that's sort of a bonus to you if the guy has it though, right? That's kind of what I'm sensing you mean.

I still have to go with emotions.. Because of emotions and a good lover, I can't help but love "it" to look at, touch, once inside , all aspects. I think that's the thing you really need to read/see.... I'm not superficial and I think most girls that go "oh he was huge" are superficial because you don't hear anything about the man himself, it was all and only at that point in time about sex.

There is a difference. Sex is sex. Intimacy is intimacy if you are only after thy "derk", then you may very well as a "girl" talk about size. If you are after a relationship, therefore, emotions, intimacy, love, and he's a good lover and boyfriend , friend, then I don't think it matters nor will you talk about it as it goes much deeper.

[lizzardb63]

Lizzard, yes your husband is huge lol. Honestly I'd be happy with your previous dude's size, but even what I have now will be big for smaller women, so if I at some point in the future I need to find someone I kind of know what to look for.

I'm sure everyone has something they want to change about themselves... it's natural. If I could, I'd change my thumbs. I have clubbed thumbs, but there's really nothing I can do about it, so I should just accept it. It's what God gave me. Same goes for anyone else and whatever body part it is including penises.

You might say "yeah well you don't have to pleasure other people with your thumbs, I have to pleasure people with my penis"...but if I were a massage therapist people might notice that my thumbs aren't as long or slender, but I still can make it feel good, even though my thumbs are a little different than others. Just like if a man's penis is different in size, it's just different and that's all it is. Doesn't mean it doesn't feel good.

[Obelisk]

Spiritualism is not religion. They are two separate issues.. Yes, science gives you antibiotics but then, natural cures from herbs can also do the same.. The point of spiritualism is to be open minded about things, be passionate, sensual touch and feel, understanding of a situation, person, reading right into something instead of finding a single fact (that supposedly is a fact) based on science.

Actually the knowledge of curative properties of herbs and plants can definitely be classified as science.

Many drugs were originally discovered out of some plant chemical. Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) was discovered in white willow bark, which had already been widely used prior to discovery of its chemical properties. So the knowledge in herbs may be primitive science, but it's still science.

Not really sure what spiritualism means. You either believe in a higher power or you don't. It's kind of a toss up for me right now.

Off course Don't ever expect to fully understand us

Understanding you is like trying to decipher some strange dream caused by having a large dinner prior to going to bed

I'm not superficial and I think most girls that go "oh he was huge" are superficial because you don't hear anything about the man himself, it was all and only at that point in time about sex.

That's kind of my point though. Why is wrong to be superficial? We are primed to seek the best specimens to continue reproduction of the human race, and the system is meant to allow that to happen with the best specimens of men and women. So it's no coincidence that men are attracted to the hottest women, and women will be attracted to the hottest men.

Character and personality are other things that come into play after that initial "gut" attraction IMO. A superficial woman ignores this if the guy meets her looks approval. A non superficial woman will choose a guy not as good looking if he has a better character. But this woman is overriding her "primal" instinct to do so. So the question becomes "is this woman sacrificing the feel of a larger penis as well to gain the "character" and "personality" traits of the man?"

I'm sure everyone has something they want to change about themselves... it's natural. If I could, I'd change my thumbs. I have clubbed thumbs, but there's really nothing I can do about it, so I should just accept it. It's what God gave me. Same goes for anyone else and whatever body part it is including penises.

That's funny.

Just like if a man's penis is different in size, it's just different and that's all it is. Doesn't mean it doesn't feel good.

I know you are all resisting my questions. You keep on bringing feeling and emotions, and relationships, etc etc.

Let me give you my take. I'm using myself as an example simply because this has been my experience:

The hotter the girls I go after, the more princess syndrome I bump into. Previous gf was really hot. Fit, nice curves, a nice set of c-cup sized breasts. With that came an extreme sense of entitlement. She believed her hotness allowed her to have anything she wanted. I put up with it for a few months because I liked being physical with her. There came a time when I just couldn't take it anymore and broke it off.

Current girl is definitely not as hot. Same height, around 40lbs overweight (compared to the first girl) and her breasts are only b-sized.

She is "sweeter" but because she's very insecure. She has her "princess" moments but they don't last as long.

I honestly would prefer to have the first girl with the attitude of the second one. It doesn't mean I don't like her. I actually want her to get her butt into a gym with me but she's been lazy. If she lost the weight, she could come very close to looking like the first girl.

So you see, I am sacrificing looks and feel to have someone more tolerable to hang around with.

Everything you gals have told me about relationships, and that you don't care about looks or size, etc etc. basically boils down to my exact experience. It's just that I am far more crude in my description.

lizzard, in your case, your man is pretty large. your previous guy was big too. So if a woman is used to that size, and her next guy is only 4", then what? Doesn't she have a right to feel she is missing something?

The only way I feel it would be fine is if the woman actually found the large ones uncomfortable, and is relieved to get something that will actually feel good and not hurt.

So no, no matter what you or anyone else says, I will never believe that a woman who liked a large size will not feel the size difference in a smaller man. Impossible physically.

She might ignore it because the new guy fills her "psychological" needs better (character, personality, etc etc.)

The only hope for smaller guys to not have to be "settled" upon by a woman like that, is that the woman herself is small and genuinely enjoys smaller sized more due to her own size.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

BUT... You are with someone who you want to be more like someone else. So why are you with her

[FortunsFoole]

All penis' feel different though. Size is only one small aspect of a much bigger picture. So is the size of the head, the curve, the girth, texture, etc. Everything makes each one feel different and I guess unless you've physically experienced having a vagina and what it feels like to be penetrated by a penis, you couldn't understand why size would not factor into attraction or sexual gratification to so many.

Also in thinking about what may be more of a primal need for us females. The size of a males penis is not going to help keep us or our children protected. It would be awful hard to fend off a predator in a pregnant state. Penis size also doesn't determine whether we'll be able to be impregnated and give birth to strong, healthy babies. Wouldn't personality take a role in this? It seems like it would make more sense for us to be wired to be attracted most to the male that will help our children survive and keep the genes going. Which I would imagine would require a certain amount of compatibility. This would be where emotions might come into play.

From a male perspective it may make more sense to be much more inclined to find a mate based on appearance. Which female would best be able to carry his offspring. Hips, breasts, health would all play a part. Really they only have to impregnate a female, whereas females have the tackle necessary to keep them alive after birth to ensure the genes carry on.

That was a line of thought that made sense to me. Whether it's accurate or not, I don't know. I just thought it might be worth thinking about. **shrug**

Personally, penis size, is the same as having a preference for a certain hair type and color. It's insignificant and I'm not settling with someone because they don't have the hair I find the most pleasing to see, touch, or smell. Yet some people are adamant that their counterpart has to have a certain hair color because it's just that important to them. Really it boils down to preferences of individuals and how important those are.

I find physical attraction to evolve. A first glance attraction doesn't turn me on, it just makes me curious. And usually a little conversation changes how that person appears to me drastically. Also what I felt were preferences that I had for years changes upon experience. With the hair reference I always loved long, silky, black/dark brown hair. One of my absolute physical preferences. I was least attracted to curly hair. The guy I married has curly, brown hair. And man, the way he makes me feel makes me prefer all of him just the way he is. Grabbing his hair and feeling it curl around my fingers.. his hair is my absolute favorite.

Some people might see it as settling. I see it more like adapting.

[Obelisk]

BUT... You are with someone who you want to be more like someone else. So why are you with her

Because the physical can be changed, and she wants to. It's just a matter of taking the first step. Why am I with her? Well she's getting attached and I don't want to hurt her, but she knows my stance on things. I made sure to let her know what my opinion is. She says she still wants to continue with me, so I did my part. Also because if I break up, I'm only going to run into the same problem with another girl again, unless I win the lottery and find a woman who doesn't want kids. I think the only chance of that maybe is to search for older women than myself. Not sure I'm comfortable with that.

All penis' feel different though. Size is only one small aspect of a much bigger picture. So is the size of the head, the curve, the girth, texture, etc. Everything makes each one feel different and I guess unless you've physically experienced having a vagina and what it feels like to be penetrated by a penis, you couldn't understand why size would not factor into attraction or sexual gratification to so many.

Good post. You really did impress me. You are right that I don't have first hand experience of what it feels like. I do have evidence of women that say it is important. To some maybe not that much. I remember someone on this site (in another of these gazillion penis threads) said something like "If I was having a night stand, then yes I'd like a 7" penis, but my bf is 5" and I love everything about him".

I thought that was a pretty honest answer and was happy with it.

Also in thinking about what may be more of a primal need for us females. The size of a males penis is not going to help keep us or our children protected. It would be awful hard to fend off a predator in a pregnant state. Penis size also doesn't determine whether we'll be able to be impregnated and give birth to strong, healthy babies

Ok I'm tempted to bring back the ladder theory again. I will simplify it.

Men are attracted primarily to looks, and body is first, face second. Personality is last, and depending on the personality, and then after everything is weighted in his mind. We do this subconsciously.

Women seem to have a similar process, but first impression is the face, then body and an assessment of his economical worth together second. Then personality. Then everything gets weighted in her mind to know if she's attracted to him. This is subconscious.

**sigh**, I know a bunch of you will come in and say this is all bs. The problem is that there's always a reason for variations. For example, a woman specifically looking for a guy that isn't buff, or good looking, is probably doing it because she's sick of all the buff/good looking guys only trying to get sex from her. So in her mind, she has overridden looks and focused on personality primarily because "looks" always have gotten her a bunch of deuches. I have no doubt that ideally, said woman would rather have a good looking, buff guy, who is also a good guy and treats her well. Have you guys heard of Pavlov's dog? Look it up.

Anyway, it may be true that penis size might not matter much, but I think it's totally dishonest for women to say it doesn't matter at all. You just decided that the smaller guy is nicer to you and has better qualities, like more money, or cuter face, etc etc. You sacrificed something to gain other qualities.

That's just my take on it. Again I understand some women might not even notice. Some women might have had sizes ranging in the 4 to 6" range, and never really noticed much size variation. Then other women get a contrasting different. One dude might be 10", the next one might be 3". You could say they are extremes, but they do happen.

Wouldn't personality take a role in this? It seems like it would make more sense for us to be wired to be attracted most to the male that will help our children survive and keep the genes going. Which I would imagine would require a certain amount of compatibility. This would be where emotions might come into play.

Personally, penis size, is the same as having a preference for a certain hair type and color. It's insignificant and I'm not settling with someone because they don't have the hair I find the most pleasing to see, touch, or smell. Yet some people are adamant that their counterpart has to have a certain hair color because it's just that important to them. Really it boils down to preferences of individuals and how important those are.

But does any woman prefer a 4" or even 3" penis? I would imagine if she is very small she might. If anything larger hurts. I don't know if hair color is the right thing to compare it to. If you were right, there would be a ton of women who would prefer huge, like 10" and a bunch who would prefer very small, like 3". Maybe some women who prefer as a fetish might. I'm sure you could count them on your hand.

I understand that if you fall in love with a man, and he's 3", you'll overlook this flaw. I understand that. The entire argument against my view has been that. I'm not saying that's not the case. If I fall in love with a woman, and she had some weird flaw, like an unusually large nose, or jaw, I'd probably overlook this "flaw" also. It doesn't mean that I didn't wish it could be changed.

Some people might see it as settling. I see it more like adapting.

It's not settling if you got exactly what you wanted. A bunch of people do. Again, my argument is simply asking the question "do women, on a primal level, find larger penises more attractive?" I believe the answer to that is "yes". If you want to add reservations to that (like for example, too large might be bad for you) then you can. I just cannot accept the answer as "no". It can't be an absolute like that.

[CHANDLERS WISH]

. I think the only chance of that maybe is to search for older women than myself. Not sure I'm comfortable with that.

What's wrong with 50 year olds? :P

Sorry in one of those moods today.

IDK, a couple of years older isn't a bad think, she will be more mature to start with as well and therefore, satisfy your emotional needs also she will be in her prime sexually "again", and so exploration can be made to suit your boundries BUT she may already have a child that is a teenager as an example would that bother you?

[Obelisk]

What's wrong with 50 year olds? :P

Sorry in one of those moods today.

IDK, a couple of years older isn't a bad think, she will be more mature to start with as well and therefore, satisfy your emotional needs also she will be in her prime sexually "again", and so exploration can be made to suit your boundries BUT she may already have a child that is a teenager as an example would that bother you?

I couldn't deal with someone else's kid. I understand that a woman might have been left by a loser who had a kid with her and then jetted. Or they were married and divorced, or something similar.

As much as I'd like to help, I just can't see myself getting involved in a relationship like that. I think that child will always be priority to that woman, and I'd be secondary. Not that I don't understand that. That's her flesh and blood, and I'd just be "the new guy".

There may be no hope for me Chandler's Wish. I'm actually sort of making peace with it. I've enjoyed the physical relationships I've had, but I could go back to being celibate. It honestly isn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be. But who knows. There is a situation I'd be fine with accepting someone else's kid. If the woman is a widow.

As for the 50 year old comment, I remember a couple of years ago I had to fly to another city to get some work done thru my company. A woman that worked in that branch was very friendly with me the whole time. She was good looking, nice body, very sweet. I would have guessed late 30's.

I couldn't believe when she told me she was 50. Wow, her oldest kid was 5 years younger than me. She even told me she was "separated". So yeah I got the "wink winks" lol but didn't think it was appropriate. It did cross my mind though but hey I'm a guy!

[FortunsFoole]

I understand that if you fall in love with a man, and he's 3", you'll overlook this flaw. I understand that. The entire argument against my view has been that. I'm not saying that's not the case. If I fall in love with a woman, and she had some weird flaw, like an unusually large nose, or jaw, I'd probably overlook this "flaw" also. It doesn't mean that I didn't wish it could be changed.

This seems to be another preference to me. In my mind, perfection is imperfection. All the details that add up to the big picture. I love the weird "flaws" especially. To me it's a representation of their unique person and it's extremely attractive. Some would overlook an imperfection, while others embrace and appreciate it.

It's not settling if you got exactly what you wanted. A bunch of people do. Again, my argument is simply asking the question "do women, on a primal level, find larger penises more attractive?" I believe the answer to that is "yes". If you want to add reservations to that (like for example, too large might be bad for you) then you can. I just cannot accept the answer as "no". It can't be an absolute like that.

Of course it wouldn't be absolute. We're unique in our preferences. Just as it's not an absolute "no" it's not an absolute "yes." Why does it have to be absolute at all? I can honestly answer, "No, I do not find a larger penis more attractive." Simply looking at it aesthetically--size doesn't interest or appeal to me. It's irrelevant really. I see it as more of a general trait. It's the smaller details that I'm really fond of. I could be wrong but it seems like the point of these posts is seeking validation that you are having a hard time finding here? I don't really see that happening because we are all so vastly different. We all perceive the world differently through different filters based on a number of influences.You're going to see the world and the women in it the way you choose to. I don't think anyone here has been dishonest with you. And I don't think their opinions should be disregarded because it doesn't match what you've already decided to be true. I'm curious, what's the point in talking about it at all if there can be only one right answer?