[Obelisk]

Hah hah hah hah!!

That thread went the distance!! Carmen63 is obviously trolling. 22" haha. I've been laughing like a hyena for the past 10 mins! I can't believe I missed such a quality thread (for comedy content)

[Stillness]

Yes! Carmen63's comments are one of the most entertaining things on this site. Either she's a brilliant storyteller or delusional and self-centered. The fact that I went back and forth on which one made her all the more funny.

At first I thought she was trolling, but some of her comebacks and reasoning came off as so genuine that I started thinking she really believed what she was saying.

----

In reference to sexual conversations about the opposite sex, it seems kind of immature and shallow, but those conversations were what introduced me to variety. It became especially clear as I moved into young manhood and my friends and I were starting to have sexual and romantic experiences. I could also have conversations with older men that would now talk to me as a man. It's when I found out that different people like different things. What I perceived as what "society" or "everybody" wanted was oftentimes my own view. But I discovered that my preferences and view of beauty was far from universal.

I'd say, "Do you see the butt on that woman?" My friend would say, "I don't like her ankles."

We'd discuss breasts and my roommate would say, "Anything more than a handful is a waste." Another man would say, "I don't like a woman too curvy because when they get a certain age then they tend to not hold up as well."

Vaginal tightness was the topic and one of the guys in the shop would say, "I like it loose."

The contrasts to my own desires blew my mind. It helped me mature though. They say that one of the hallmarks of our race is the theory of mind - the ability to recognize different perspectives in others. The vast majority of living things on this planet lack it. It's a sign of maturity in us. A two year old will try to hide by covering his own eyes because his theory of mind is not fully realized yet. He mistakes his view for everyone else's. But if you can accept that your views are your own and not necessarily held by others, you'll go farther. Broaden your horizons.

One of the things I like about this site is that the anonymity gives us the opportunity to peek into those conversations with women and gives them the freedom to really express themselves. If you read something, then it's likely how someone really feels, because the pressures to deceive and obscure truth are largely absent. They're not altogether gone, but you shouldn't conclude that people are just saying stuff to protect your feelings because it's not what you expect. Women are not a monolithic group that feels a certain way. They are as unique as you and I. We can't project our own thoughts onto them, or anyone, for that matter.

Also society doesn't want or prefer anything. It's made up of people. There can be more dominate views in different cultures, but there are as many variations of and deviations from those views as there are individuals. If you're seeking a monogamous relationship, then it's your potential mate's unique perspective and desires that you want to understand.

Incidentally, I just saw a 2002 European study that said that only 1% women find penis length very important. In favor of your concerns there was another 20% who found it important. What we don't know is how many of those who felt it's important or very important would actually prefer it not be too long. But 77% found length unimportant. 22% "totally unimportant."

Again, statistics go out the window when you're dealing with individuals, but it can give you perspective. If you're going for a broader appeal to women, penis length is not the way to go, if that study is to be believed.

Google "What Importance Do Women Attribute to the Size of the Penis?" to find the study, if you please.

[Little]

On that thread, I didn't look through the whole thing again (26 pages, no thanks! My internet isn't even as good as dialup.) If I recall the whole conversation correctly, Carmen was SCARILY sincere, and Anon grilled her on her measurement accuracy. There is also supposed to be a hilarious illustration at some point. Good reading in there, if you haven't yet.

All women who haven't experienced a large tool would like to know what it feels like. "Large" is subjective though. 6" could be large to some women. Also depending on upbringing, it might not even be on the radar for some.
Women who have experienced large probably enjoyed it even if it was a bit uncomfortable unless it was too large. Again, it seems to vary depending on the woman's own size.

I agree on point one. People make such a big deal about size, and it's a little like a game of chance - you never know what you're gonna get.
I'm not sure you're making a coherent point on line two - enjoying a large penis (even if slightly overly large) is not the same as enjoying it more than a medium penis, or enjoying it more to such a degree that medium penises aren't desirable anymore.

The women that have been with large and enjoyed it probably feel pressured to lie if they get a smaller guy and say it doesn't matter.

It's not helping anybody to lie about what they enjoyed (by which I don't mean that people don't do it. There probably is some pressure, and depending on the personality of the human in question, lies are probably told.) If having sex is more important than having sex with a man whose penis fulfills certain criteria, then penis size isn't really important, is it?

Have you seen me say anything bad to any women that have admitted they would like larger as ideal but are ok with average?

Nope, you've never overstepped the boundaries of healthy conversation, which is why we're all still posting

You mentioned that it's insulting to consider a woman with a smaller vagina as a consolation prize. Then you say you prefer penetration and have a vested interest in how a penis performs.
Ok, so let's start there. I believe you've said that average is your preference. Let's say that's 6" with 5" girth. So would you be happy with a guy that had 4" with 4" girth, particularly since you prefer penetration over other methods?

Your air of defeat when you say things to the effect of "I guess I better just find a girl for whom [mysize] is max capacity" is what's insulting. It's like saying "Ugh, I guess I just better find a girl who's mentally stable and otherwise compatible with me." This potential woman whose vaginal size leaves you at the tail end of her capabilities is meeting your needs, and according to your views, you would be meeting hers. I'm assuming it's just frustration because you have had trouble finding a good partner in the first place, but I'm still giving it a big "Boo Hiss."

I don't know what differing girths look like, so I don't think I could accurately answer your question. I'll offer the best I can - I was happy with the sexual performance of my ex-boyfriend: below-average ex-partner previously mentioned, whose stats were likely near 4x4". I enjoyed multiple orgasm via penetration-only sex and generally had a good time. (This was not likely due to personality - he was a big fat jerk who used sex as a control tool. If ever there was an opportunity for personality to ruin sex, this was it.)

There was a penis size thread a few years ago with a guy whose penis fell into the XS category (below below average.) I told him honestly that a man with his stats wouldn't do the trick for me and it would be a relationship-breaking issue. But if I get into the brain of happily promiscuous pre-marriage Little, she doesn't care if a guy is S, M, or L - they pass the size test and get a shot in the sack. Their abilities are the focus at that point, not their size.

Women aren't penalized (hah hah pun ) the same way about their vagina size. I'm not really blaming anyone for that, I'm just annoyed by it.

They don't get penalized to the same degree as men because it's interior and subjective depending on their state of arousal. But when Stillness mentioned a friend who likes 'em loose, my immediate reaction was reminiscent of you - "Hah yeah right what a liar." When I know darn well that people have differing preferences. Tight vaginas are prized, women go crazy trying to get them tighter. If you aren't practically incapable of having sex, you might as well be throwing a hot dog down a hallway. Vaginoplasty exists, after all. Not to mention FGM. And if you ARE practically incapable of having sex, that sucks too. Breaking a partner's expectations of what having sex with a small vagina is like can lead to unpleasant consequences. I guess the difference is that there are medical interventions that are considered effective for vaginal largeness, versus the unfortunate lack of safe and effective penile enlargement surgery.

[FortunsFoole]

Women aren't penalized (hah hah pun ) the same way about their vagina size. I'm not really blaming anyone for that, I'm just annoyed by it.

Funny enough, in high school and my early 20s being told how tight your vagina was or how quickly it caused a guy to get off to his own surprise was a bragging point, sadly. Pretty strange. Girls looked at it like the more "loose" you were must have meant you were a **** and used. And you only ever heard a girl was loose from the mouth of a guy she'd slept with and it was obviously meant to be insulting(or another chick who'd heard it from so-and-so). They were seen as a bad lay. Yet the girls bragging about tightness during sex were pretty open about their promiscuity and didn't get the same "eww gross ****" response and were assumed to be great at sex.

It most definitely does happen. Just not in the same light as penis size.

I never could understand the relationship between vaginal tightness meaning you were good at sex(tight) or bad(loose). Same as I couldn't understand penis size being the difference between good or bad sex.

[Obelisk]

In reference to sexual conversations about the opposite sex, it seems kind of immature and shallow

I usually try to stay out of them man. I know what it's like to be picked on for stupid crap that's very hard to change.

My entire 20's has been eating/breathing/living fitness because of it. The mocking and bullying really did destroy me mentally. I have to be fit always now to be confident. I can't do that to other people. In a good way I've learned to accept others as they are.

Vaginal tightness was the topic and one of the guys in the shop would say, "I like it loose."

I wonder if he felt too tight would make him cum too soon?

He mistakes his view for everyone else's. But if you can accept that your views are your own and not necessarily held by others, you'll go farther. Broaden your horizons.

I agree with you, but I think there are universally accepted tastes that don't vary too much.

One of the things I like about this site is that the anonymity gives us the opportunity to peek into those conversations with women and gives them the freedom to really express themselves.

This is all I've asked. I've felt that instead of honesty, I've gotten a lot of patronizing to "accept myself'. That's not an answer I'm willing to accept. But a lot have been truly honest and I've appreciated it.

Incidentally, I just saw a 2002 European study that said that only 1% women find penis length very important. In favor of your concerns there was another 20% who found it important. What we don't know is how many of those who felt it's important or very important would actually prefer it not be too long. But 77% found length unimportant. 22% "totally unimportant."

I think I saw that study somewhere in my searches. I think the bottom line was that women liked penises that were proportional to body size and height. That's actually funny, because my height helps (Only 5'6 ) but my body size hurts (reasonably thick and muscular )


(continued....)

[Obelisk]

Again, statistics go out the window when you're dealing with individuals, but it can give you perspective. If you're going for a broader appeal to women, penis length is not the way to go, if that study is to be believed.

No man I get it. I've had no problem finding women to date at all. I've had problems finding down to earth ones, and not really sure where to go next.

I think it would suck extremely to find a great gal with an awesome personality, but she's had a dude that was like 9" and she enjoyed that but the guy was an *** so she had dump him and now ends up with me. So I have no doubt in my mind that girl would fall for me and even love me genuinely. But that means she will always feel she's giving up some physical sensation because of it. That's pretty much it. You mentioned somewhere in your threads that I don't care what women are saying, that I just want to be huge so the woman goes "wow!" when she sees my stuff.

In a way you're right, but it's not so much an ego thing for me rather than being happy that she believes the physical experience with me will be enjoyable to her. I didn't worry so much about it because I honestly didn't realize how many of these humongous dudes are walking around. I remember all the studies even from 10 years ago were saying that 6" was the average. So me at 5.5" I was pretty much happy I was just a hair smaller than average. But if women are sleeping with huge guys all the time, that really shifts perspective on the matter, and I now become "small" no matter what studies say.

On that thread, I didn't look through the whole thing again (26 pages, no thanks! My internet isn't even as good as dialup.) If I recall the whole conversation correctly, Carmen was SCARILY sincere, and Anon grilled her on her measurement accuracy. There is also supposed to be a hilarious illustration at some point. Good reading in there, if you haven't yet.

I went thru the whole thread. I didn't see an illustration. If she was sincere, I'm sure she had to have meant 22cm (which is like 8.5")

I actually went to measure 22" with a tape starting from where my penis is to see how far down it goes, and it reached below my knee right down to where my calf is. Wow. I don't even think horses are that big.

enjoying a large penis (even if slightly overly large) is not the same as enjoying itmore than a medium penis, or enjoying it more to such a degree that medium penises aren't desirable anymore.

Well I'm kind of curious about this. So let's say that for you, 6" feels perfect. You end up with a dude that's 8" and it's uncomfortable but enjoyable. Then you go back to a 6 incher again. You wouldn't notice a difference at all? If you give me an honest answer I will believe you, whatever it is, I can take it

It's not helping anybody to lie about what they enjoyed (by which I don't mean that people don't do it. There probably is some pressure, and depending on the personality of the human in question, lies are probably told.) If having sex is more important than having sex with a man whose penis fulfills certain criteria, then penis size isn't really important, is it?

I understand the need to lie, especially if you are a good person. I don't know how I'd answer a girl who asked me, for example, if I thought her breasts were big (if they really were small, like A or B size). My honest answer is that, because breasts are not the primary trigger for physical attraction to me, the size difference to me is negligible. If I had to put a percentage on it, it would be a 5% maybe?

As you know I've been physical with 2 women. The first one had decent sized breasts. She hated them touched though. No big deal to me because I honestly got nothing out of playing with them anyway (due to it not being a significant trigger in arousal for me). 2nd girls loved for me to grab them, and grab them hard! lol but there wasn't much there to grab, she was maybe B sized? It felt like I was pulling more on skin, and I felt uncomfortable because I was wondering if she would think that I didn't like them because they were small (which wasn't true, I didn't actively grab them because I'm not too interested in breasts. I guess Stillness has a point, other guys go crazy over them and I get nothing)

So I've never been asked, and I have no idea how I would answer without hurting a girl's feelings.

Nope, you've never overstepped the boundaries of healthy conversation, which is why we're all still posting

I hope not, It's never been my intention to be mean on purpose

Your air of defeat when you say things to the effect of "I guess I better just find a girl for whom [mysize] is max capacity" is what's insulting.

But to me it is defeat if the girl is settling for me physically because I'm the only emotionally sound guy she could find. I know I shouldn't care about that too much. I think there are many threads of claiming to not know what to do because their last bf was huge and the new guy is only average and they feel they are missing something now. This is my fear.

(continued.....)

[Obelisk]

This potential woman whose vaginal size leaves you at the tail end of her capabilities is meeting your needs, and according to your views, you would be meeting hers. I'm assuming it's just frustration because you have had trouble finding a good partner in the first place, but I'm still giving it a big "Boo Hiss."

Hmm, well the only need it would meet for me is the knowledge that to her, I'm not lacking anything. I'm sure I'd find any vagina pleasurable, even if the woman can barely feel me.

The whole relationship hunt has made me sour in general though. Girls that seem "sweet" at the beginning have turned around in like 2 months time or less. There were red flags that I ignored hoping that they would not significantly matter, but unfortunately they have.

I don't know what differing girths look like, so I don't think I could accurately answer your question. I'll offer the best I can - I was happy with the sexual performance of my ex-boyfriend: below-average ex-partner previously mentioned, whose stats were likely near 4x4". I enjoyed multiple orgasm via penetration-only sex and generally had a good time. (This was not likely due to personality - he was a big fat jerk who used sex as a control tool. If ever there was an opportunity for personality to ruin sex, this was it.)

Wow, small dude and still an ***. lol

But you got off no problem physically with this guy? How would you compare that experience with the biggest guy you've had?

There was a penis size thread a few years ago with a guy whose penis fell into the XS category (below below average.) I told him honestly that a man with his stats wouldn't do the trick for me and it would be a relationship-breaking issue.

Hmm, I'm interested in finding this thread. I guess I'm happy that I'm average and not clinically "small" even if I do feel smaller that I'd like to be.

But when Stillness mentioned a friend who likes 'em loose, my immediate reaction was reminiscent of you - "Hah yeah right what a liar."

Yup, I also find it hard to believe, but it is possible if the guy feels he cums too fast if it's tight. That's the only reason I can immediately think about why a man would have such preference.

And if you ARE practically incapable of having sex, that sucks too

I agree. Which is why I'm not too obsessed about being huge (like 8"-9") because I now know that these sizes would immediately cut out enjoyable sex with a good amount of women.

[Obelisk]

(sorry guys, there seems to be some limit to how many quotes you can have in post, so I had to split mine)

I guess the difference is that there are medical interventions that are considered effective for vaginal largeness, versus the unfortunate lack of safe and effective penile enlargement surgery.

I've always wondered why the medical establishment hasn't been able to come up with effective penile enlargement surgeries.

I can tell you from personal experience that penis enhancement exercises are working for me. I got up this morning and measured 0.1" more on my penis. I had to triple check because I'm still incredulous about it. I'm officially now 5.8". I had a smile the entire day today and a huge confidence boost. I wonder if I can actually reach that elusive 7", but heck I'd be find with 6.5" even that would not look small on my height.

Girls looked at it like the more "loose" you were must have meant you were a **************** and used.

I think this is the general thinking. I never really thought about it much. I now know that vagina size range is much more than I realized a couple of years ago. I didn't even think penis sizes ranged that much even. I thought anything bigger than 7" was a rarity, and anything smaller than 4" was just as rare. But it seems to be way more common that I previously thought.

I never could understand the relationship between vaginal tightness meaning you were good at sex(tight) or bad(loose)

Well my limited experience has shown me that tightness, at least to me, is a bit more enjoyable. Of the 2 women I've been with, the first one was not loose and not tight. Since she was the first woman I'd slept with, I didn't really think much of it. I could last with her a good 5-10mins, and I was actually even proud how long I could go (she used to get ****ed if I was taking too long. I could cum in 2 mins with her if I concentrated more on it). Second girl was definitely tighter. I was actually surprised, I honestly thought it would feel the same, but it was pretty intense, and the first time I couldn't hold it more than 30 seconds lol

After a few more times I got used to it and could last longer.

Same as I couldn't understand penis size being the difference between good or bad sex.

Well I think from a visual standpoint, a larger penis will seem like it will be more pleasurable to a woman. As we all know, sex is primarily in the brain. If you think you will enjoy something, your brain is primed to actually enjoy it.

But from what I'm getting here, it seems that this is not the case for a lot of women. I guess those are the type of questions that I would like to get answers to, and so far I've appreciated all the input from everyone

[Stillness]

I wonder if he felt too tight would make him cum too soon?

The particular dude I had in mind from my early twenties told me it allowed him to "maneuver better and do what he wanted to do." That may have been his way of saying it allowed him to have sex longer. He was far from a wordsmith. He may have also had a bad experience with a woman being too tight so as to make sex comfortable. I don't know.

I honestly hadn't thought much about it until one of the members here expressed a similar preference. I can't remember his reasoning. But he has commented on it multiple times in various threads. It's Harmony A.K.A. Hugo-B A.K.A. buddhaboy. He actually has two user names and I don't remember which are the active ones.

I was looking for one of the stretching threads and found his reasoning on the second post here:

https://www.womens-health.com/boards/sex/52369-wonders-stretching.html

There are some interesting comments there about comfort and pleasure of looser vaginas. I think there's at least one other very long stretching thread with a lot of input if you're really curious.

[LizziB]

I do feel somewhat insulted by a lot of things you've said. Somewhere mid thread, you suggested having a small penis or for a woman, small breasts is a flaw. I have double A sized breasts. Am I flawed? Is my boyfriend 'settling'? people are different, and just because someone is not classically beautiful does not mean they're flawed.
You also seem to have the attitude that you're having to settle when you date girls you consider 'homely'. All I can say is, somebody who is happy and confident with both their appearance and who they are as a person is 100 times more attractive to me than someone who may be physically very good looking, but insecure.

Maybe you'll disregard my opinion, as I've only had one sexual partner, and don't have any experience with different sizes. My boyfriend is roughly your size, not sure about girth, at the base it may be 4" but i'm not sure, it could be less. All I know is, if he were any bigger, blow jobs would be extremely difficult for me, probably near impossible, and I can't imagine penetration would feel better. Even now if i'm not fully aroused he'll hit my cervix, or I'll experience cramping after sex. A BIGGER PENIS, IF NOT COMFORTABLE IS NOT PREFERABLE.

bottom line, I don't want a bigger penis. He's your size down there, but he's also a big guy, over 6 foot and sturdily built, but I think his penis is just right. (for me!) In theory, yours would look larger than his because of body size. Yes,I have seen a bit of porn, and I know what a larger penis looks like, but in all honesty, asides from a little curiosity, it doesn't do anything for me.

So I guess do your penis exercises if it makes you feel better, but don't obsess. You are more than your penis, and try to look beyond appearances, sizes etc. does a hot girl with a good personality have more value as a person who is more average looking? You say you accept people as they are, because that's what you want, but your perfectionist attitude tells me a different story. If you k eep aiming for perfection, you're setting yourself up for failure. When you can't reach your goals, you're only going to feel worse, personally it seems to be this is the root of your issue,. Just my humble opinion though, obviously i'm just drawing conclusions from what you've said, , I just think you will never be happy, as long as you're obsessing over penis size.