[JonDoe]

atskitty2, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I genuinely appreciate the constructive feedback that you and other posters offer.

Communication is a major issue in our relationship. When I approach my wife, regardless of how I present it, she is either dismissive, defensive or both. I try to stick with how I feel and what I need instead of what she isn't doing or isn't doing right.

In depth discussions are nearly impossible with my wife, regardless of the topic whether it be about sex, intimacy, finances, retirement goals, vacation planning, or parenting. It is as if she is either incapable of seeing other viewpoints or simply not interested in viewpoints other than her own. Her brother is the same way as his life-long friends, wife and kids would openly share.

[atskitty2]

Well, that barrier has to be broken. As I replied in the other thread, it's likely going to have to be one of those times that she loses what means most to her (hopefully you) so that she can see that self-sacrifice is necessary.

This hits hard for me, and I think it's why I've been thinking of your situation so much. There's some deep-seeded psychological barrier, and finding the root of it all is the challenge. A really good counselor can help do that for you tho.
There are ways to break through to her - trust me. You've got to find them, but it's possible.

[rcoreyus]

JonDoe's situation is eerily similar to mine for 20 years, before things (for reasons unknown to me) improved a couple of years ago. Now I fear things are starting to drift back again. We've gradually declined from sex every other day, to twice a week, to about once a week - and didn't have sex at all on a one week vacation in a lovely romantic spot. There is always a "reason" - sometimes a valid one, but I fear things will return to the once every 4 months we had previously. Like JonDoe, I am not without other options, but what I want is my wife.

[atskitty2]

I admire you both for that. That's a better road to take but I'm not sure anyone could judge too harshly if unfaithfulness occurred as a response to such prolonged coldness.

[Stillness]

A four day weekend that I chose to wait for my wife to initiate, which resulted in zero intimate encounters.

On a recent week-long out-of-town vacation I also waited. My wife initiated twice. Once a few days in because she said we hadn't done it and the other was a quickie right before our flight, probably for the same reason.

I think I finally see the pattern. The other night we're laying in bed watching movies and I tell her I want her topless. I'm into her breasts - looking at them, touching them, just knowing they're exposed while we're laying together. She's not actively resisting, but passively she is. She's giving reasons why she doesn't want to be topless and is being less than cooperative. Then, after I get sick of asking and struggle to take her complicated whatever off myself, she asks if it's OK to cover her breasts up. I tell her that she wins and to do what's comfortable for her. I don't care anymore. I assure her that I'm not mad - and I'm really not. I try to show her my good-nature by making us a snack. What I don't tell her is that I'm liberated. It feels good to not have unreciprocated feelings of desire. Then she strips completely down. She's naked the rest of the night (which I ask of her all the time and she rejects me), right when I don't care to look at or touch her.

The pattern is this: If she can't have me, she wants me. I really hate it, but it's unfortunately true. She's explicitly told me so, as I've mentioned to you before. And I've seen time and time again that pulling away gets me action. I'm repulsed by her now, which means that she'll probably want to have sex with me.

That's some sick stuff, in my eyes. I know that during the courtship phase women and men like a little challenge. I understand that. You want to feel that you have something valuable and that the person is not too eager. But we've both already won each other over! Why does there still need to be a chase? Why is intimacy so much work when it should be natural?

[JonDoe]

Why does there still need to be a chase? Why is intimacy so much work when it should be natural?

Perhaps it heightens her desire when she is pursued, or perhaps it turns her on when you take a more dominate role and undress her yourself instead of politely asking. My experience is that some women, my wife included, simply can not explain it or even figure out why. Hopefully, the ladies will offer additional insight.

Here are two other observations. When I read your description, I get a sense of passive-aggressiveness from both you and your wife. Of course, I could be way off base, but that is my observation after rereading your post a few times. If this is true, do some research on the impact passive-aggressiveness has on relationships. Also, I am a firm believer that the bedroom is for sleeping and sex, not watching TV, especially in a marriage struggling with intimacy issues. To each their own, but that is my personal opinion.

I've tried playing hard to get and that doesn't work with my wife. I've even tried reverse psychology on my wife and that doesn't work for her either. Ironically, the few times I rejected my wife's sexual advances (as a demonstration of how she can turn me down without crushing my spirit), she gets upset and we go weeks without intimacy.

[jen1447]

Okay, this site is officially ridiculous. Another post swallowed up because my browser "has become unresponsive" while I'm typing out a three sentence reply. Sorry, but I'm done here until this gets fixed.

[Stillness]

Perhaps it heightens her desire when she is pursued, or perhaps it turns her on when you take a more dominate role and undress her yourself instead of politely asking.

I didn't ask. I ordered. When she didn't obey I stood over her and undressed her. Dominance is not the issue. I'm not passive anything. She's not passive-aggressive either, at least not inordinately so.

She does like pursuit. I think that everyone does to some extent. Feeling desired is good. There's a difference between wanting romance/play/foreplay and just plain frigidity, though. It's the later that's the issue. We've had improvement, but it's still a problem.

Also we don't have a TV in our bedroom. We wanted to lay down and watch movies so I took my laptop in to snuggle up and watch them.

[atskitty2]

I agree you have to turn the TV off in the bedroom.

As a woman, I can absolutely speak to the attractiveness of a man's ability to be dominant, take charge and be very strong. It is a fine line tho. I am a fairly strong woman, mentally and emotionally and I want a man who is stronger and tougher than me. I want a man physically stronger too. I have met a lot of men who are pretty weak in every aspect. That's just never going to be OK with me. I think most women, no matter how modern and independent we are, want a protective but nurturing man. Those age old gender roles have some truth behind their origin, I believe.

A man who can ask for what he wants but not pout and be defeated if he doesn't get it, whether it's sex or other. A man who can say to me after a long dry spell that he needs me and wants to be that close to me, while gently reaching out for me over dinner, will go a hell of a lot further than asking if we can have sex, as if I'm Mom with the key to the cookie jar...

Not saying you gentleman do this, but some men do. Time for bed isn't the time to "prepare" your woman for what you need. Tell her how it feels (NOT PHYSICALLY) to be close to her.

My hubby would say, "we need to have sex", I would say, "I agree". Then he would make his way to his computer or man cave or to the store...never to be seen again that evening...

I confronted him on that, he said he didn't think I was serious.

OK, I'm rambling now.
But yes, displaying your manliness is attractive.

[rcoreyus]

Its bad, but if you go, please tell us where, your posts are interesting and I'd miss them.

Okay, this site is officially ridiculous. Another post swallowed up because my browser "has become unresponsive" while I'm typing out a three sentence reply. Sorry, but I'm done here until this gets fixed.