[rcoreyus]

It wasn't clear to me - is he avoiding / turning you down for sex and then watching porn and masturbating, or is he happy to be intimate with you whenever you want? If the first, then I think there is a real problem, if the second, then I'll write a much longer post.

[Ashlee T.]

I have a dissenting opinion from the majority.

It's nearly impossible to find a man that has never viewed pornography. But I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect that your man not continue to do so. Especially with the damaging effects that are pornography is known to cause. But even from the standpoint of monogamy, viewing another person naked and becoming aroused to the point of orgasm is undeniably sexual. If your relationship is exclusive sexually, then it's not unreasonable to expect that they not do that with anyone but you.

I don't believe that is a dissenting opinion. Jen and I both stated clearly that it is the OP's right to NOT be okay with her man watching porn (forget about the masturbation for a second). Some women are okay with it, other women are not okay with it.....and it's something that should be discussed and understood in any relationship. She is not wrong if she doesn't want him watching it. It just highlights an incompatibility that they need to address with each other.

RC - It seems to be more of the second. The OP stated that they have a healthy sex life but that her discovery of the porn has put a damper on things for her at least.

[catwoman]

I agree with Beautiful Disaster. She has every right to feel how she's feeling. Some women don't mind if their man looks at porn and some do. It comes down to is if they can work through it together.

[rcoreyus]

Some thoughts.

The great majority of men, and I think the majority of women masturbate regularly. Most people consider this normal behavior, and would not accept a partner telling them to stop. A possible exception is if that partner is willing to provide them with sexual release on request. Because of her past experience the OP doesn't, but the reality is that she has to expect that her partner will. (the standard joke is that surveys show that 99% of men say they masturbate and 1% lie on surveys.....)

A significant number of men and women use various aids to masturbate - vibrators and porn fall into that category. Some people are bothered by this: Women can be bothered by their partner's porn use - they feel they are being compared to the images on the screen. Men can feel inadequate because their partners masturbate with dildos that are larger than they are. These feelings are "real", there is no way to say what people "should" feel.

My belief is that in most cases however, these feelings are not an accurate representation of what their partners are thinking. A woman who uses a large toy to masturbate does not necessarily mean that she finds her partner inadequate, she just sometimes likes the feel of something large. A man who watches porn doesn't necessarily find his partner inadequate, he just enjoys other fantasies.

For many people fantasies have nothing to do with what they want in reality. Men and women fantasize about raping or being raped (either for either gender btw) - but would absolutely never want that in real life. They may watch lesbian, or bdsm, or transgender, or gay porn, but never actually want to engage in those activities in real life. I know that I have a wide range of fantasies that are fun to think about, but absolutely not something I want in real life - (besides I don't think there even IS an Icelandic women's beach volleyball team......)

The question of whether porn is "cheating" is tricky. There are other women, but only on the screen, not in the flesh. Clearly opinions are divided.

People are free to accept or not accept what they wish in relationships. I would suggest though that the OP consider:

If she cannot tolerate her partner's porn usage, she will either be constantly disturbed, or will try to force him to stop. He will likely resent her trying to "control" something that he thinks is private. So the choices are:
1. He keeps doing it, she feels un-valued and disturbed and unhappy.
2. He hides it and she will think things are OK until she finds out, then feels betrayed. Meanwhile openness in the relationship is gone
3. He stops, but will likely feel resentful that he has been forced to give something up.

Or
If the OP can accept what he is doing, maybe even join him in watching porn (many women enjoy it as well), the whole situation can be defused. He will feel grateful that something he has had to hide is now in the open. (it hurts to keep secrets).

[Stillness]

The dissent is not that melodyhollows (that name has a ring to it) has a right to feel how she feels. We agree there. But, some think it's OK to enjoy pornography and masturbate under some circumstances or to an extent. I don't.

melodyhollows feels that it's cheating "indirectly,” but seems to be willing to tolerate it to a point because "all men do it." She even feels it’s naïve to expect her man to refrain from masturbation. But we don't all do it. The majority of people, male and female, have done it at some point, but we need to get past the idea that men are sexual animals controlled by their desires. We are able to experience sexual pleasure with one woman exclusively and be fulfilled by that alone. She does not have to feel like it’s abnormal for her to expect that and have her sentiment dismissed and minimized to unreasonable, hormone-driven, female emotions.

There is solid reason for her to be concerned that has nothing to do with how much sex they’re having, especially with the amount he’s watching. It can have the same effect on the brain as drug or alcohol abuse. And though he can perform now, that may not continue to be the case. It’s a real possibility that she’s getting deeper into a relationship with someone who will end up unable or unwilling to have a normal sex life with her.

Watching pornography is definitely prevalent at this point in history in some parts of the world, but it’s not normal.

[Ashlee T.]

but we need to get past the idea that men are sexual animals controlled by their desire

I definitely agree on this.

She does not have to feel like it’s abnormal for her to expect that and have her sentiment dismissed and minimized to unreasonable, hormone-driven, female emotions.

Agree here too. I'm assuming the "female emotions" thing must have come from either her, or her man...cause no one here said that. She is plagued with genuine concern, whether it would be a genuine concern to me or not is irrelevant in my opinion. I've certainly had issues with men who were "too" into porn and masturbation before.

melodyhollows feels that it's cheating "indirectly,”

This is the part I keep coming back to. It doesn't matter how many of us have no issue with porn, or how many of us do....the fact is, she does and that is what matters. If she feels indirectly cheated on, it will ultimately cause great issues in their relationship.

Watching pornography is definitely prevalent at this point in history in some parts of the world, but it’s not normal.

Eh. What is "normal" ?

It's a tough situation for any couple. I agree very much with RC's post also.

[Stillness]

Eh. What is "normal" ?

I hear you. I'd say things that are healthy and natural. For example, cigarette smoking in the Western world is declining, but in some parts of the world, cigarette smoking is prevalent and increasing. A person in those parts of the world might figure that "everyone is doing it," so it's OK because it's normal.

But it's only prevalent. Prevalence doesn't justify an action. The effects on their life and health will demonstrate that it's not normal, because we aren't built for it.

[rcoreyus]

I don't think "normal" "right or wrong", "reasonable" or anything like that matters. I think that people should feel free in their relationships - free to do what they want AND free to leave a relationship if they are unhappy (and it DOESN'T MATTER if they are unhappy for a good or bad reason).

That said, actions have consequences and I think people should look at the entire picture and consider the results of various actions they might choose and decide what is best overall.

If the OP wants to leave her relationship ,she has every right to do so. If here partner were posting here, I'd tell him that he is free to watch porn or not, but if he does, the OP will be unhappy.

[Justice]

Some thoughts.

I know that I have a wide range of fantasies that are fun to think about, but absolutely not something I want in real life - (besides I don't think there even IS an Icelandic women's beach volleyball team......)

I enjoy your posts..... I got to this and cracked up - I am beginning to wonder if you are someone I know based on that one!

[Stillness]

Normalcy and reasonableness were the weapons used against her feelings - internally and from her boyfriend. And I suspect that the internal struggle is fueled by the "common knowledge" and the relative morality that has been expressed by the majority here and is popular in our culture.

My goal was to give her an alternate view, but also to deal in concrete facts to substantiate her view, instead of just feelings and opinions.

I'd also recommend that you use the search feature on this site and see all of the wives and girlfriends that suffer when their men abuse pornography and lose the desire and/or ability to have a sexual relationship. It's the reason I love this site. Men and other women don't get to hear this stuff much. There's an isolation and quiet suffering because you think you're the only one or that your feelings are invalid. People say, "you have the right to feel how you feel" and then turn right around and say, "but everybody does it and most people disagree with you." As if to say, you're in a teeny tiny minority with your little concerns. Even if it were true, which it is not, that doesn't make something good.

If you do stay with him you can get a glimpse of what compulsive pornography use does to men and the women that love them. At least then you know what you're in for. Or you can go back to him armed with the experience of others and actual science that says this stuff is horrible for your brain.