[Little]

Is there an equivelent for women?

I've got a couple of friends whose mothers have "become" lesbians, after either being married to or being left by my friends' fathers.
It's a dangerous thing to be a lesbian in our society. Many men will want to exploit it, or others will want nothing to do with you because they don't know what to do with you. Women can be homophobic just like men can be; they don't know what to do with a woman who loves women. But since as a general statement, women are less sexually driven than men, it makes sense that they would do a better job of covering it up.

[kaylar]

I've got a couple of friends whose mothers have "become" lesbians, after either being married to or being left by my friends' fathers.
It's a dangerous thing to be a lesbian in our society. Many men will want to exploit it, or others will want nothing to do with you because they don't know what to do with you. Women can be homophobic just like men can be; they don't know what to do with a woman who loves women. But since as a general statement, women are less sexually driven than men, it makes sense that they would do a better job of covering it up.

What you mention about lesbian proved true here.

There was a symposium, and outside of one woman,
all the other lesbians gave horror stories of being
abused by men; starting as children, going through
husbands who battered them.

It seems a reaction to abuse more than an actual
proclivity...
I spent some time talking to them, and it seemed
to me that if any of them had a decent loving
family life, or a non-brute husband, they would
not have turned to other women for affection.

Reading about married women with children
'turning' lesbian in your post seems to 'prove'
the reactive nature.

I don't know if women qua women would elect
the casualness of the 'down low' culture. There's
virtually no romance, there's 'hooking up' which
ends after orgasm, and no long lasting relationship.

[C]

I think the sexual curiosity can play a big factor in a woman turning lesbian. (I finally read the thread) If she is not sexually satisfied and has a husband that is playing around, she just may go to a place that is tempting. In the MB's I have visited the last two years I have found a curiosity among women that I would have never believed before I read it. Mostly married women wanting threesomes with women and a man. Very seldom two men and a woman. That is why I had written that woman who love women make great lovers. They do. They know what they have inside of them and know how to satisfy themselves. They have never been able to tell a man how and where to do it because of the shame factor that women are born with. How many women that had done this would be where they are now. Maybe we bring it on ourselves by not talking. Missing all those wonderful places being brought to heaven....We can't talk and stay silent and suffer all our life not knowing so many wonderful pleasures.....Either this or I am one of the most sexually sick women in the world.....

[Fallen1]

They know what they have inside of them and know how to satisfy themselves. They have never been able to tell a man how and where to do it

I believe some of this could also be because the man doesn't listen when she tells him.

[C]

I believe some of this could also be because the man doesn't listen when she tells him.

I agree with you entirely. It has to be two people in love. Just plain mush love. That is who we are and this is the only thing I can speak about. I think our relationship reached the pinnacle of heat when I finally talked to him.. I became this sexual flirt again from years past as I opened up. Sometimes I don't even know where I would find the words so in just about all the ways it was my fault. But my husband is a generous lover and all men are not like he is. They just have to stay in love to really make love.

[kaylar]

One of the points one has to take into
consideration is physiology.

For example, a dentist can tell you that
some people have such shallow mouths
that they can't but gag when the piece
of film is put into their mouths to take
an x-ray. Even the child sized film might
be too big, and cause the gag reflex.

This person was born this way, nothing
wrong with the person, save and except
if there's an oral sex question.

If the man's penis is no larger than her thumb
than oral is possible, but if he is larger than
that, he is going to hit the back of her throat
and she is going to gag.

Nothing personal, that's the physiology of
this person's mouth.

If the couple isn't aware of this, then one
is going to think the other scorns him, and
the other is going to get totally disgusted
with the whole procedure.

Then you have situations with large men
and small women, where if the man
comes on top, unless he can support
his weight, she's going to get squashed,
so it has to be side by side or she on
top.

This is not attitude, this is physiology.

Sometimes the problem could be as simple
as that.

Where the people are in love and the husband
is concerned about his wife's feelings, and she
is concerned about his, then it's pretty easy
for them to recognise the physiology.

Where they aren't in love...
everything is a problem.
And the resistence to compromise or working
out some method is just not there.

Caroline is in love with a man who is in love
with her. So things can work out.

When there is no love, there is no need to
work anything out.

[kaylar]

This was the initial mistake a lot of people
made in trying to analyse the down low.

The men in the down low refute being homosexuals,
bash homosexuals...you've heard the thugs and
Gangsta rappers...
this is the Down Low mentality.

This is a whole different culture.

First of all, men on the Down Low are vehemently
anti-gay. Vehemently. All the sociologists who
studied the group were shocked by their anti-
gay sentiments.

So let me get that whole trend of discussion
into it's own category.

Men on the Down Low absolutely reject any
inflection that they are Gay.

Further, I feel that lesbianism should not be
lumped into gay. I think it is its own
culture, unique in itself.

to my mind there are three categories.

The Gay Man
The man on the Down Low
Lesbians.

And I've tried to keep them separate.

Yes, of course, all three are engaged
in same sex sexual connection; the Gay
man and the Lesbian have no problem in
accepting that.

The man on the down low does have that
problem.

[anonymouswhitefemale]

Since my post in this thread was deleted, I thought I'd reiterate:

Kaylar, you opinion seems far more based in man-hating, sexual and racial prejedice and narrow-mindedness, that it is difficult to take you seriously.

This is just for the benefit of people who read this thread, as for a start I know kaylar never responds to anything she disagrees with (part of the narrow mindedness).


This thread is a hate-campaign rather than a discussion. As the continuous double posting and repetition indicate.

[LadyLane]

Kaylar, I don't understand your catagories. There is a difference to you between gay men and lesbians, under the term "gay"?

I have to disagree with you there.

Because then it would have to be:

Heterosexual male
Heterosexual female
Bisexual male
Bisexual female
Bisexual male who is really gay but can't commit yet
Bisexual female who is really straight but wants to shock her parents
Lesbian by choice because of sexual or physical abuse by male
Lesbian by birth
Gay by birth
Men on the DL
And, lest we leave anyone out, asexual, or non-sexual

The way you wrote "lumped into gay" implies to me, slightly, that you prefer it separated, but I am unsure why. I feel if you are gay, it means that you choose an intimate relationship with a same-sex partner. Hetero or straight means you choose an intimate relationship with an opposite-sex partner.

[WH Admin]

Okay.... where to start. I have been gone for a while so I am just now able to read this thread in it's entirety. So let me share with you what I have gathered as my opinion.

Firstly, there have been numerous complaints about a lot of the participators in this thread. This forced me to come here and read this. I am getting a lot of "he did this", "she said that", and "it's not right", sort of complaints from all sides. But I am going to tell you all that many of the primary posters in this thread have all crossed lines that never should have been crossed. And rather then mass penalizing everyone, I am telling you now, that I am watching you. This is your warning. You all know the rules so I don't know why we are even having this discussion.

Specifically:

Kaylar, you are correct that men participating in "down low" are up to no good and should be avoided by women. However, the main issue which seems to be irritating a lot of people, is that you are generalizing all men who like anal stimulation into this group of secretly gay men. You are saying that any man who likes anal stimulation is gay. This is NOT true at all. Anal stimulation for both men and women feels good. There is nothing more to that then it feels good. To be "GAY", you must have an attraction to the same sex. Being gay is not defined by liking anal stimulation. My husband, whom I have been with for 10 years, likes anal stimulation. I am not naive and I can assure you he is not gay. I can also tell you that his joy of anal stimulation has never negatively effected our sex life. It has made it better. This doesn't mean I am a dual, that I don't like you, or that I am a terrible person... I just don't agree with you and we are both entitled to our opinions.

I must also point out, kaylar and Caroline, that it is not okay to accuse members of being dual personalities throughout the forums any time multiple people disagree with you. If you believe that someone is a dual, then you need to let me know instead of throwing out accusations in the forums every time someone disagrees with you. You must keep in mind that there are times when there really are multiple users on one ip. Or, Yahoo users have randomly regenerating ip addresses. Not to mention some networks will project one ip address for multiple computers in an area. So accusing people of dual personalities is touchy and requires further research.

Caroline, you know I like you, but you have said some inappropriate things here. Example:

"Just how st*pid do you think I am. Your wife is a "doctor". Well if we are supposed to be believe that, then my husband is President of the United States. Obviously both are lies and for you to be so st*pid to say something like that shows the intelligence level of the person at the other end of this computer that I am addressing this to."

kaylar, you also said some inappropriate things:

"As soon as I see certain nicks I just scroll past. Think of it as walking through a pasture, and avoid cow patties."

The reason I am pointing these things out here instead of in private is that everyone wanted to point the finger at everyone else. But all of you have been behaving a bit out of line here. And I think it's only fair that you all see that all of you are being warned. Just because you don't agree, does not mean that you have to start being rude to each other. I know that you are all better then that.

Everyone, we have had to temporarilly disable PM, member emailing, and edit/delete post features because members are abusing the priveledges. I must make it clear to all of you that mass deleting posts or editing them to delete the original message is not acceptable nor allowed. By deleting/editing messages in that manner, you are leaving our forums with threads that make no sense and making a big mess for me to clean up. Not to mention you negatively impact our search engine status and are defeating the purpose of this forum which is to leave information for others to find. It's not fair for people to follow links here from Google to one of your posts, only to find it has been deleted or contains a bunch of random characters.

Please be civil with each other. We are all different and we all need to learn to accept that.