[Motorguy]

This kind of reminds me of that friend Jen posted about... and people who crave or "need" a relationship. Yes someone can be "too charming"

Also where Jen wrote have you never been swept off your feet. I was friends and had a outlandishly flirtatious "relationship" with a single guy I worked with. He even joked about his ability to charm people - single women in particular. Being friends with him really messed with my head. Not only was I convinced that at some point we'd have more of a relationship, everyone we worked with and people who saw us interact were certain that we were married "or at least a couple". Several said that in front of us and others said it to me. Noone believed that we were "just friends". And I did not want to be, but it can be very awkward when you are co-workers and "friends" as well.


IMO I consider that kind of .. I don't know if Deceitful is the word. But charming someone to that point just to feed your ego is definitely not very nice.

Well i agree with this statement there is many guys out there that only care about there sexually pleasure and really couldn't give a horse *****. For what ever the women's feeling are as they walk around like a big bad stud. That women will melt at the knees just to be with them if that's not a big head ego I don't know what is.

[Archer]

This kind of reminds me of that friend Jen posted about... and people who crave or "need" a relationship. Yes someone can be "too charming"

Also where Jen wrote have you never been swept off your feet. I was friends and had a outlandishly flirtatious "relationship" with a single guy I worked with. He even joked about his ability to charm people - single women in particular. Being friends with him really messed with my head. Not only was I convinced that at some point we'd have more of a relationship, everyone we worked with and people who saw us interact were certain that we were married "or at least a couple". Several said that in front of us and others said it to me. Noone believed that we were "just friends". And I did not want to be, but it can be very awkward when you are co-workers and "friends" as well.


IMO I consider that kind of .. I don't know if Deceitful is the word. But charming someone to that point just to feed your ego is definitely not very nice.

At any point you could have ended this interaction, drew some lines, and/or talked it out. Assumption is your worst enemy. Not the person who is the subject of your assumptions. If you wanted something, you had many opportunities to discuss it with him, and cut it off then and there if it wasn't something you wanted. You got placed on "orbiter" status it seems...which is something that I've seen a lot of attractive women do to men. They surround themselves with members of the opposite sex that they flirt with, tease, etc but will never have sex with or be interested in in any way. These guys will move furniture for them, give them rides, loan them money, etc. Then they get all ****ed when they see her dating all kinds of other men, when they have nobody to blame but themselves. You seemed to just give him your affection and attention, but this is the spot he had you in. A person usually only ends up on orbiter status if they don't have the ability and self-control to draw firmer lines with the people they interact with. This even works for friendships too, where one friend only has another around when it can benefit them in some way. Draw some lines.

[Archer]

Archer, you made comments on one of my threads about steering conversations in a way you would like it to go, skirting questions and that sort of thing. I think that's common, and let me say that I don't think that's wrong of itself. But I think there are times to just say what you feel, think, want and need. When another person's potential feelings, needs and wants are involved, I think we have a responsibility to disclose our goal for that interaction.

I wouldn't suggest you tell someone you want to use her for sex. This is about having enough consideration for another (possibly fragile) human being that you provide enough info for them to make the choice best for them. A simple statement like, "I'm not looking for a relationship, just fun right now. I have too much going on for the constraints of a relationship."
I've had men tell me straight up they just want sex too.

We all go into anything with different expectations. All you really need to do is make your goals known up front, in case that other person has something much more in mind. It is common courtesy to me. communication! Some women go on a date thinking its a date and nothing more. Some women think its the mark of exclusivity. When some girls give it up with their men, they think it means they're now an item, others think it's just sex...we don't know til we discuss it.
I don't think of it as victim/predator...it's 2 adults discussing what is good for them.

If someone doesn't believe you, thinks you'll change or has some emotional stability issues, I don't think that's your fault. Stating your needs honestly removes you from that responsibility to me.
Not being forthright does leave you partly responsible if they misunderstood or jumped to conclusion.

I skimmed this...hope the topic hasn't veered in another direction.

Kitty I would agree with most everything you said. The biggest difference now is that before I was actually open to the idea of a relationship, although not necessarily looking for one. Now I'm moving, and I'm not interested in a relationship at all.

This thread has helped me understand that there are some very big differences in FWB, FB, or whatever acronym we can come up with for banging people for fun.

[Archer]

Well i agree with this statement there is many guys out there that only care about there sexually pleasure and really couldn't give a horse **********. For what ever the women's feeling are as they walk around like a big bad stud. That women will melt at the knees just to be with them if that's not a big head ego I don't know what is.

There are girls just the same dude. This is not a story about all these predatory men walking around looking for weak prey. You gotta get this image out of your head man! Men are not these disgusting perverts of society that women need to protect themselves from.

There is a difference between seduction and manipulation.

[Motorguy]

There are girls just the same dude. This is not a story about all these predatory men walking around looking for weak prey. You gotta get this image out of your head man! Men are not these disgusting perverts of society that women need to protect themselves from.

There is a difference between seduction and manipulation.

Well I have 4 daughters so I can make this judgement about many young men i seen them date. I wouldn't pee down some of there throats if there guts where on fire of these young men who think there gods gift to women. Cast in point my 2nd oldest daughter 24 had a guy she didn't even know who was early 40's started touching her breast now you tell me what you think of this complete ******* hole. She almost knock his teeth down his throat he was old enough to know better but thought my daughter was a air head and in his pee brain mind thought this was good behavior. So when you have daughters then you can come back and tell me what you think of this. I was not saying all but many think like this it's calling fahter raising young men to not respect women they see there dad do it towards there mother so they think what the hell i can it too.

[atskitty2]

Motorguy there's absolutely no doubt there are abusive and predatory men in good supply. Your daughters will likely encounter many more in their lives. There are women with the same disgusting behavior.
I don't think that what Archer is doing, or not doing, rises to any level of predation or abuse.
I can see how, as a dad, your protective nature went there with this. . But it really is different than our current topic.

Yes Archer, I completely get it that you're in a transition and don't want an actual gf. If you're reiterating that for me because you think that makes the expectations different, it doesn't in my mind.
If anything, when your intentions are (possibly) less than your partners, we should make it known. Reason is, that the other party stands the chance of being the one to get "hurt". If we are out for a long term thing, I could understand a person not divulging that right away, because it's their own feelings at stake if the other person isn't at that level yet. I think it's still better to be honest and up front, but when it's my own hurt that may be at risk, I may keep things more quiet.

So, telling a woman you wanna nail, that you'll be leaving town in xx time and need no emotional attachments I think is an acceptable way to say, if you decide to sex me, that's likely as far as it's going. You've stated your place. I would respect that, and understand that you're not willing to give more than a very superficial interaction.

Otherwise, my dear, you are just another dude trying to get his own needs and wants taken care of, without the thought or consideration of what another persons need or want may be. Again, doesn't make you a bad guy necessarily, but I would rather be the BETTER guy and communicate up front.
Are you afraid if you disclose your wants that they won't be met? That women will run screaming away? Lol

[Trixareforkids]

There is a difference between seduction and manipulation.

Ah, seduction... I think that's why some married people stray, for the thrill of seduction.

[Trixareforkids]

So, telling a woman you wanna nail, that you'll be leaving town in xx time and need no emotional attachments I think is an acceptable way to say, if you decide to sex me, that's likely as far as it's going. You've stated your place. I would respect that, and understand that you're not willing to give more than a very superficial interaction.

I agree with Kitty, this is a clear message that you're a short-term good time pal. Honestly, I believe it'd get you laid faster by the girls NOT looking for a relationship. If they know you'll be gone there's no chance you'll get all clingy and no reason not to have some fun for a while. Might sway someone who otherwise would have been on the fence.

[Motorguy]

Motorguy there's absolutely no doubt there are abusive and predatory men in good supply. Your daughters will likely encounter many more in their lives. There are women with the same disgusting behavior.
I don't think that what Archer is doing, or not doing, rises to any level of predation or abuse.
I can see how, as a dad, your protective nature went there with this. . But it really is different than our current topic.

Yes Archer, I completely get it that you're in a transition and don't want an actual gf. If you're reiterating that for me because you think that makes the expectations different, it doesn't in my mind.
If anything, when your intentions are (possibly) less than your partners, we should make it known. Reason is, that the other party stands the chance of being the one to get "hurt". If we are out for a long term thing, I could understand a person not divulging that right away, because it's their own feelings at stake if the other person isn't at that level yet. I think it's still better to be honest and up front, but when it's my own hurt that may be at risk, I may keep things more quiet.

So, telling a woman you wanna nail, that you'll be leaving town in xx time and need no emotional attachments I think is an acceptable way to say, if you decide to sex me, that's likely as far as it's going. You've stated your place. I would respect that, and understand that you're not willing to give more than a very superficial interaction.

Otherwise, my dear, you are just another dude trying to get his own needs and wants taken care of, without the thought or consideration of what another persons need or want may be. Again, doesn't make you a bad guy necessarily, but I would rather be the BETTER guy and communicate up front.
Are you afraid if you disclose your wants that they won't be met? That women will run screaming away? Lol

I completely understand what you saying Kitty. I kind of went off topic a little there I had FWB before but in no time did i ever disrespect the women who is my dear close friend and still is to this day with both are families. We both didn't want to be in a relationship at that time but enjoy have sex with each other.

[Justice]

WOW - claiming FWB when you will lie and mislead??

Seriously you ignored the rest of the post calling you out on your basically admitting that you would be willing to DECEIVE a woman (that you want to be FWB when you do not).. .

But see this is where I think you are not being 100% truthful. I do not believe that you want FWB you want the BENEFITs (w/o the Friends part) or several F- buddies. And while that is totally not for me, you have a right to feel how you do, but please do not lie (even by parsing or omission).

It seems to me that you pretty clearly do NOT want FWB. You comment about you NOT
"straight up telling a girl "I want us to use each other for sex""
when that is in fact what you want, seems pretty much like a lie to me

But then when the topic was men(people) using "charm" to mislead, you come back and blame the "charmed" for actually believing the "lines" (aka lies). In a flirtation and/or courtship, especially in the circumstances I described you are not going to say - hey that was a fun interaction - so was any of it true (serious) or are you just f'ing with my head?

At any point you could have ended this interaction, drew some lines, and/or talked it out. Assumption is your worst enemy. Not the person who is the subject of your assumptions. If you wanted something, you had many opportunities to discuss it with him, and cut it off then and there if it wasn't something you wanted.
.. . .. Then they get all ****ed when they see her dating all kinds of other men, when they have nobody to blame but themselves. You seemed to just give him your affection and attention, but this is the spot he had you in. A person usually only ends up on orbiter status if they don't have the ability and self-control to draw firmer lines with the people they interact with. This even works for friendships too, where one friend only has another around when it can benefit them in some way. Draw some lines. ?

Then you get P.O.'d with Motorguy and hide behind the false claim that your post/thread was about "friends with benefits", when it is quite clear that you are willing to lie to women and claim FWB when what you want is essentially an unpaid hooker, or more accurately several unpaid hookers. (because if you are willing to lie to women to get them to sleep with you, I would not even consider that even a legit F buddy .

I don't see what this anecdote has anything to do with any part of this topic. You are talking about a man sexually assaulting someone on a post about friends with benefits. What the ********************************?

I would repeat the question from atskitty2 at the end of this post. . .

Otherwise, my dear, you are just another dude trying to get his own needs and wants taken care of, without the thought or consideration of what another persons need or want may be. Again, doesn't make you a bad guy necessarily, but I would rather be the BETTER guy and communicate up front.
Are you afraid if you disclose your wants that they won't be met? That women will run screaming away? Lol